RE: Chris Harris Video: Hot Hatch Showdown
Discussion
TameRacingDriver said:
Can't watch this till I get home, but looking forward to it.
As for my thoughts. Wouldn't touch a Renault. If they were the last drivers cars on earth, I would give up my hobby. They should rename them "Renault Sport Money Pit" quite honestly.
That leaves the Astra and Focus. I'd probably have the Astra, although if my bro-in-laws Astra SRI is anything to go by, that doesn't score too highly on reliability either.
I'd probably go for the GT86 or BMW 135 over any of these.
I'm not convinced a modern Renault is any less reliable than a BMW. As for my thoughts. Wouldn't touch a Renault. If they were the last drivers cars on earth, I would give up my hobby. They should rename them "Renault Sport Money Pit" quite honestly.
That leaves the Astra and Focus. I'd probably have the Astra, although if my bro-in-laws Astra SRI is anything to go by, that doesn't score too highly on reliability either.
I'd probably go for the GT86 or BMW 135 over any of these.
the stigs dad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
I'm not convinced a modern Renault is any less reliable than a BMW.
I am; and so are Jd power and all the other reliability surveysI had an E36 328 and it gave me zero issues apart from a couple of sensor related issues that didn't cause any problems whatsoever, just a couple of rogue lights. I had 2 Renaults and both had a large number of expensive problems. I drove a DCI one with 100K miles on that felt utterly knackered. The reliability surveys back this up.
I would class Renault as alongside the likes of Fiat for reliability TBH.
(waits for the Renault fanboys to tell me I'm wrong).
And in fairness, my GFs Corsa also feels like its falling apart after less than 50K, so I don't rate those either.
The Ford will probably turn to a pile of brown dust in 10 years.
the stigs dad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
I'm not convinced a modern Renault is any less reliable than a BMW.
I am; and so are Jd power and all the other reliability surveysThis one?
"A multitude of problems, the most significant concerning engine lights "
The N54 and N53 are lemons
TameRacingDriver said:
the stigs dad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
I'm not convinced a modern Renault is any less reliable than a BMW.
I am; and so are Jd power and all the other reliability surveysI had an E36 328 and it gave me zero issues apart from a couple of sensor related issues that didn't cause any problems whatsoever, just a couple of rogue lights. I had 2 Renaults and both had a large number of expensive problems. I drove a DCI one with 100K miles on that felt utterly knackered. The reliability surveys back this up.
I would class Renault as alongside the likes of Fiat for reliability TBH.
(waits for the Renault fanboys to tell me I'm wrong).
And in fairness, my GFs Corsa also feels like its falling apart after less than 50K, so I don't rate those either.
The Ford will probably turn to a pile of brown dust in 10 years.
Derek Chevalier said:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-20...
This one?
"A multitude of problems, the most significant concerning engine lights "
The N54 and N53 are lemons
All Renaults I've had dealings with were lemons. Don't get me started on laguna's, kangoo's and meganes-ugly unreliable crap. This one?
"A multitude of problems, the most significant concerning engine lights "
The N54 and N53 are lemons
I'm no BMW fanboy but I'd take one over a Renault every time.
the stigs dad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-20...
This one?
"A multitude of problems, the most significant concerning engine lights "
The N54 and N53 are lemons
All Renaults I've had dealings with were lemons. Don't get me started on laguna's, kangoo's and meganes-ugly unreliable crap. This one?
"A multitude of problems, the most significant concerning engine lights "
The N54 and N53 are lemons
I'm no BMW fanboy but I'd take one over a Renault every time.
"BMW X1 owners gave the car a big thumbs down after complaining bitterly of it being beset by problems"
"The X5 suffered from a fair few problems, according to its owners, particularly when it came to starting the engine"
The engines are now far too complicated.
Msportman said:
I've owned lots of different hatches and VW really got it right with the MK5.....it's a great track car and will easily compete with Renault's ST and the like.
Unless I'm missing something it will get murdered around a track by the latest Megane. It's 4.5 seconds slower round the Top Gear track than the R26.R which itself is slower than the latest hot Megane IIRC.
Derek Chevalier said:
Unless I'm missing something it will get murdered around a track by the latest Megane.
It's 4.5 seconds slower round the Top Gear track than the R26.R which itself is slower than the latest hot Megane IIRC.
I think he was saying a modded golf will murder a standard megane (not a fair comparison) which I agree with. It's 4.5 seconds slower round the Top Gear track than the R26.R which itself is slower than the latest hot Megane IIRC.
Derek Chevalier said:
I have both, an R26.R and a 330i - the latter having been back to the dealer eight times for engine related issues. The direct injection engines have suffered from HPFP, injector, coil pack, carbon build up on inlet valves. I wouldn't buy another. If you read EVO look at the issues they have there - recently with both a 520d and Mini, and a while back with the 335i (new turbos required). Also, look at some of the other models in the JD power survey
"BMW X1 owners gave the car a big thumbs down after complaining bitterly of it being beset by problems"
"The X5 suffered from a fair few problems, according to its owners, particularly when it came to starting the engine"
The engines are now far too complicated.
And that survey is representative of how many owners?"BMW X1 owners gave the car a big thumbs down after complaining bitterly of it being beset by problems"
"The X5 suffered from a fair few problems, according to its owners, particularly when it came to starting the engine"
The engines are now far too complicated.
Just because it's in a magazine doesn't mean it's entirely accurate. I know plenty of BMW owners who don't really have issues with new models. In addition, when there has been issues BMW customer care has typically been exemplary.
Furthermore, It's not apparent how the EVO test cars were looked after. Were the turbochargers turned off straight after use? Were the cars on track? How much mileage did they have? Were they out of warranty?
Coil pack issues are common to every modern petrol car. Fuel pump issues have been present on a few top end cars before and I'm not sure it's fair to single out BMW for it.
BeirutTaxi said:
And that survey is representative of how many owners?
Just because it's in a magazine doesn't mean it's entirely accurate. I know plenty of BMW owners who don't really have issues with new models.
Forgive me for being blunt, but to question the validity of impartial, organised surveys, likely benefiting from the experiences of thousands of consumers and, in opposition, to offer your own 'plenty' of BMW owners whom you know as counter to those surveys, seems nonsense.Just because it's in a magazine doesn't mean it's entirely accurate. I know plenty of BMW owners who don't really have issues with new models.
The entire point of wide-scale, independent surveys is so people do not have to be reliant on the experiences of such a small sample size as is the combined knowledge of themselves and their acquaintances.
It seems to me the main driver in people challenging the findings of these surveys, is not that the methodology of them is wrong, but plainly that they do not like the findings themselves.
10 Pence Short said:
Forgive me for being blunt, but to question the validity of impartial, organised surveys, likely benefiting from the experiences of thousands of consumers and, in opposition, to offer your own 'plenty' of BMW owners whom you know as counter to those surveys, seems nonsense.
The entire point of wide-scale, independent surveys is so people do not have to be reliant on the experiences of such a small sample size as is the combined knowledge of themselves and their acquaintances.
It seems to me the main driver in people challenging the findings of these surveys, is not that the methodology of them is wrong, but plainly that they do not like the findings themselves.
The entire point of wide-scale, independent surveys is so people do not have to be reliant on the experiences of such a small sample size as is the combined knowledge of themselves and their acquaintances.
It seems to me the main driver in people challenging the findings of these surveys, is not that the methodology of them is wrong, but plainly that they do not like the findings themselves.
Well said.the stigs dad said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Unless I'm missing something it will get murdered around a track by the latest Megane.
It's 4.5 seconds slower round the Top Gear track than the R26.R which itself is slower than the latest hot Megane IIRC.
I think he was saying a modded golf will murder a standard megane (not a fair comparison) which I agree with. It's 4.5 seconds slower round the Top Gear track than the R26.R which itself is slower than the latest hot Megane IIRC.
Msportman said
"I owned an Ed 30 sporting 345+ diff big brakes and KW Clubsports....immense on track on sticky rubber.....would show a Megane a clean pair of heals and much more exotic machinery.....very under estimated track weapon and now great value at £10-£13k for low mileage examples. "
That spec golf would beat a standard RS IMO. Although to compare a modded car to standard is not really fair.
"I owned an Ed 30 sporting 345+ diff big brakes and KW Clubsports....immense on track on sticky rubber.....would show a Megane a clean pair of heals and much more exotic machinery.....very under estimated track weapon and now great value at £10-£13k for low mileage examples. "
That spec golf would beat a standard RS IMO. Although to compare a modded car to standard is not really fair.
BeirutTaxi said:
Just because it's in a magazine doesn't mean it's entirely accurate. I know plenty of BMW owners who don't really have issues with new models. In addition, when there has been issues BMW customer care has typically been exemplary.
Which of the direct injection petrols do your friends have - would be interested to know. The customer car might be exemplary, but I'd rather they fix the problem rather than have to replace the same part over and overBeirutTaxi said:
Furthermore, It's not apparent how the EVO test cars were looked after. Were the turbochargers turned off straight after use? Were the cars on track? How much mileage did they have? Were they out of warranty?
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/217422/bmw_3series.html"Though often driven in the spirited fashion for which it was designed, the 335i had had a pretty cushy life compared with certain cars on the fleet, so it was a surprise when in mid-September after around 16,500 miles and just a month after its service, an engine fault warning appeared on the dash and the car went into reduced power mode"
Thje 335i didn't see to have a particularly hard life
BeirutTaxi said:
Coil pack issues are common to every modern petrol car. Fuel pump issues have been present on a few top end cars before and I'm not sure it's fair to single out BMW for it.
I don't think it is particularly harsh http://www.gilardi.com/hpfpsettlement/FAQ.html
Also
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136...
the stigs dad said:
Msportman said
"I owned an Ed 30 sporting 345+ diff big brakes and KW Clubsports....immense on track on sticky rubber.....would show a Megane a clean pair of heals and much more exotic machinery.....very under estimated track weapon and now great value at £10-£13k for low mileage examples. "
That spec golf would beat a standard RS IMO. Although to compare a modded car to standard is not really fair.
Maybe it would, but comparing standard vs standard"I owned an Ed 30 sporting 345+ diff big brakes and KW Clubsports....immense on track on sticky rubber.....would show a Megane a clean pair of heals and much more exotic machinery.....very under estimated track weapon and now great value at £10-£13k for low mileage examples. "
That spec golf would beat a standard RS IMO. Although to compare a modded car to standard is not really fair.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim_short...
Renault Megane RS Clubsport 1:13.50
VW Golf GTI Edition 35 1:19.00
would brakes and suspension make that much difference?
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