RE: Chris Harris Video: Hot Hatch Showdown
Discussion
Ready for some controversy? A RWD BMW 135i would see which way any one of these three would have gone on the roads Harris has just used to test 'em.. Wrong wheel drive 
. Ostriches.
All the RWD 'Dab of Oppo' crowd might just get some on the shopping trolley when pushing it round Waitrose at the weekend.
Lift off oversteer makes for a very entertaining and quick A-B road car.
. Ostriches. All the RWD 'Dab of Oppo' crowd might just get some on the shopping trolley when pushing it round Waitrose at the weekend
.Lift off oversteer makes for a very entertaining and quick A-B road car.
blearyeyedboy said:
It's clearly not practical for a road tester to take 2 or 3 sets of different branded tyres with a car and tell Joe Public which tyre matches a car best but I wonder how much of a difference it all makes.
Of course, none of these car manufacturers would how their products off around a track while they're wearing LingLong DitchfinderPlus Specials but I wonder how much of difference they make to these verdicts. I'd be interested to know what Chris (or anyone) thinks of this.
Back in the late 90's I was driving 20-30 different cars a week, the difference the tyres made was amazing. For instance a Rover 220GTi on P6 (6000 possibly) was an absolute handful, but on GY NCT's it was a proper weapon. Those same NCT's on a Renault 19 16V were a different story. Coming up to date a 997.2 on Michelins is a much nicer car than the same car on Dunlops. Hit the sweet spot and you're laughing.Of course, none of these car manufacturers would how their products off around a track while they're wearing LingLong DitchfinderPlus Specials but I wonder how much of difference they make to these verdicts. I'd be interested to know what Chris (or anyone) thinks of this.
Sounded a bit condescending to the VXR..." Well done Vauxhall...you've done ok..."
As far as design goes, IMO it wins, the inside is finickety, but overall a very handsome package, I'm beginng to see a few Astra 3-doors now and whilst a bit large, they look fantastic....and it clearly has 'poise' to match.
The ST has a massive 'gob' and a really disjointed, messy rear end aesthetically, and is sadly very colour sensitive, but in THAT colour it works quite well IMO, the over riding comment of an all-rounder sounds spot on, comfy and mature when you want it, balanced track machine at other times..
bendy to justify it though, that inetrior (as in the last generation) is way below par.
I'd never consider the current generation BMW 1, it just offends me....I mean would you go out/marry a really ugly woman who was a 'pro' in bed?...maybe for a night, but not for longer...
The perfect Hot hatch then is still up for grabs...
Out of those 3, I'd take the Astra, mainly because I can have a 3 door and it looks so good...but I'd need to test drive the Focus and get up close to be absolutely sure. Enjoyed the article alot.
As far as design goes, IMO it wins, the inside is finickety, but overall a very handsome package, I'm beginng to see a few Astra 3-doors now and whilst a bit large, they look fantastic....and it clearly has 'poise' to match.
The ST has a massive 'gob' and a really disjointed, messy rear end aesthetically, and is sadly very colour sensitive, but in THAT colour it works quite well IMO, the over riding comment of an all-rounder sounds spot on, comfy and mature when you want it, balanced track machine at other times..
bendy to justify it though, that inetrior (as in the last generation) is way below par.
I'd never consider the current generation BMW 1, it just offends me....I mean would you go out/marry a really ugly woman who was a 'pro' in bed?...maybe for a night, but not for longer...
The perfect Hot hatch then is still up for grabs...
Out of those 3, I'd take the Astra, mainly because I can have a 3 door and it looks so good...but I'd need to test drive the Focus and get up close to be absolutely sure. Enjoyed the article alot.
currybum said:
Assuming you can get %10 off of the BMW that’s still £29k for an absolutely base spec 135, throw in to the mix the extra cost of servicing the BMW and you have a car that is significantly more expensive. For me £9k isn’t an amount of money that can get lost in the rounding.
.
I paid £300 for five years servicing. Some people are getting it chucked in for free..
Great video. Loved the in car footage during the corners as the car pivots around.
The Astra sounded the weakest and it looked the least chuckable, the winner from that test to me was the ST. Which is sad as given the chance, I don't think I would ever buy one.
The Meganes interior is a big let down, I remember the first time I saw inside a 225. I absolutely loved them until I saw the hard plasticy interior, if I ever buy one the spray glue and alcantara will be coming out!
The Astra sounded the weakest and it looked the least chuckable, the winner from that test to me was the ST. Which is sad as given the chance, I don't think I would ever buy one.
The Meganes interior is a big let down, I remember the first time I saw inside a 225. I absolutely loved them until I saw the hard plasticy interior, if I ever buy one the spray glue and alcantara will be coming out!
currybum said:
.... lots of very sensible things...
Good points well made. The ST's base price is £22K, the Renault 26K, the Astra 27K (and for those bringing it up, Golf £26K & BMW £30K). Even ticking every option box, the ST at £28K is only 2K more expensive than the cheapest comparable car. Hats off to Ford for pricing, I really with the other manufacturers would follow this principal.I completely agree, however, that anyone adding that many options to the ST is mad, as is anyone who specs a 135i to £43K or a Golf GTI into the mid-30s. Options will always play a limited role in a car's 2nd hand value too - the exception to this has always been VW / Audi / BMW, but that's because the basic cars to so badly equipped, no one wants one!
Regarding this test, I was very surprised to hear that the ST is the better car (in CH's opinion) on the road and only marginally slower on the track. As the VXR & Renault both have camber compensating fancy suspension, diffs & the like, I really thought the ST would struggle and be shown as the weakest of the trio. The fact that this wasn't the case genuinely surprised me.
I think the VXR looks the most sporting (except for it's huge backside!), the Renault I'm afraid looks cheap and as I've said before, I am struggling a bit with the ST, altough black paint helps a lot.
The Golf lost it's way yrs ago and has been trading on it's badge and 80s / early 90s image for too long. Given the Mk6 was shown up by the previous generation of hot hatches, VW are going to have to pull something special out of the bag next time round.... IMO, the 135i is the worst looking of the lot by a long way. The extra money you'd need to spend to get the essential kit (even after any haggling) would still make it a £30K+ car and that's just silly in my book.
I'm really looking forwards to a mega hatch test with all of these cars (come on evo, you know want to do it!) to see how they all fare together... it'll be one heck of a scrap!
Regardless of which car you prefer, it's very refreshing to see the manufacturers still giving us fun affordable('ish) everyday cars, in these times of austerity and carbon counting
loose cannon said:
withn 50k in 2.5 years on my meg 250 and not missed a beat im happy as larry with mine 
Mine's on 23k after 2 years and I absolutely love it.I don't really understand the moans about the interior, I find it a very nice place to be.
There isn't actually a car on the market that I'd prefer, and as things are going I'm likely to keep the car for the long term instead of swapping it in. On a wet trackday you'd be hard pushed to find anything going faster than you, and in the dry it holds it's own against far more exotic machinery.
framerateuk said:
Mine's on 23k after 2 years and I absolutely love it.
I don't really understand the moans about the interior, I find it a very nice place to be.
There isn't actually a car on the market that I'd prefer, and as things are going I'm likely to keep the car for the long term instead of swapping it in. On a wet trackday you'd be hard pushed to find anything going faster than you, and in the dry it holds it's own against far more exotic machinery.
ive really enjoyed my car m8ty it has been a pleasure to own it, I don't really understand the moans about the interior, I find it a very nice place to be.
There isn't actually a car on the market that I'd prefer, and as things are going I'm likely to keep the car for the long term instead of swapping it in. On a wet trackday you'd be hard pushed to find anything going faster than you, and in the dry it holds it's own against far more exotic machinery.
blearyeyedboy said:
It's clearly not practical for a road tester to take 2 or 3 sets of different branded tyres with a car and tell Joe Public which tyre matches a car best but I wonder how much of a difference it all makes.
Have a look at any tyre test where they use the same car as the test mule for all the different tyres - feedback from the tester is that the car can feel amazingly different on different brands plus the tester can lose confidence on turn-in, corner exit traction etc If they do laptimes then you can sometimes see a 2 or 3 second difference over a 60 second lap between best and worst
Ecosseven said:
I also think that the high end hot hatches are in danger of missing their target market. A 210bhp Focus / Astra / Megane at £19k would sell like hot cakes. Do people really need or want the extra 40-60bhp? Just my opinion of course.
Isn't that what the Corsa and Clio versions are for?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff