RE: MG to reinvent sports car
Discussion
andyps said:
What is most worrying is that it could get so bad without the owner doing something about it.
"Unfortunately, because it is hidden under the slam panel, you simply can't tell how bad things are until you remove the bumper or remove the slam panel: either is a big job, but not one you'd necessarily do routinely."Kolbenkopp said:
andyps said:
What is most worrying is that it could get so bad without the owner doing something about it.
"Unfortunately, because it is hidden under the slam panel, you simply can't tell how bad things are until you remove the bumper or remove the slam panel: either is a big job, but not one you'd necessarily do routinely."
DonkeyApple said:
The problem there is the 'people around 20' bit.
Just about the worst segment in the current climate to try and create a credible business model for.
Think you are right for expensive things such as cars. They spend lots of money though, from devotional objects out of Cupertino to silly attire. Rather surprisingly, this seems to be important for the other market as well -- the youth crazed mid-agers seem to enjoy exposing themselves to ridicule by aping the young ones where ever possible.Just about the worst segment in the current climate to try and create a credible business model for.
Our local hipsters drive young timers, like retro stuff, 240 Volvo estates etc (complementing the thick rimmed 60es style glasses). So the product might need to be unpretentious in a very ostentatious way. Definitely not a copy of premium German stuff. Hm. Not sure if this type of market research will get anywhere
. At the very core, a sports car should be something that you enjoy driving for the sake of driving, makes you look better than the other motorists and is at least a bit faster than what the mainstream drives.
Personally, I'd be happy if they would do a fuel efficient F/R two seater cloth top with very basic equipment, starting at 150 bhp/ton. Yet another take at a 2012 Elan / MX5 NA basically. At Dacia / Chinese prices I think it would sell (15k).
andyps said:
OK, I found the thread rather than just the photo, it isn't in any way a structural part. Not that that excuses poor protection, but it isn't a major issue as pointed out in the thread. There is some mention of some rusting with other cars, but no pictures to back it up. At least the subframe mounts aren't flexing to the point the floor is splitting as was and still is a major issue on E46 BMWs, but they are nothing to do with the UK so not worth discussing on PH
Sometimes you see them on the German used car web sites advertised as having "issues with the rear end that where subject of a recall". Round that time they started using cheaper internals as well. The trend seems to be disposible products at premium prices. They seem to get away with it for the time beeing, so the bean counters in charge must be over the moon...Kolbenkopp said:
DonkeyApple said:
The problem there is the 'people around 20' bit.
Just about the worst segment in the current climate to try and create a credible business model for.
Think you are right for expensive things such as cars. They spend lots of money though, from devotional objects out of Cupertino to silly attire. Rather surprisingly, this seems to be important for the other market as well -- the youth crazed mid-agers seem to enjoy exposing themselves to ridicule by aping the young ones where ever possible.Just about the worst segment in the current climate to try and create a credible business model for.
Our local hipsters drive young timers, like retro stuff, 240 Volvo estates etc (complementing the thick rimmed 60es style glasses). So the product might need to be unpretentious in a very ostentatious way. Definitely not a copy of premium German stuff. Hm. Not sure if this type of market research will get anywhere
. At the very core, a sports car should be something that you enjoy driving for the sake of driving, makes you look better than the other motorists and is at least a bit faster than what the mainstream drives.
Personally, I'd be happy if they would do a fuel efficient F/R two seater cloth top with very basic equipment, starting at 150 bhp/ton. Yet another take at a 2012 Elan / MX5 NA basically. At Dacia / Chinese prices I think it would sell (15k).
It's a segment that generally takes hand me downs and rebrands them personally.
There is also the angle that many cars are financed by the parents. Why would they buy their kid a funky roadster if they are having to drive a s
t box because of the recession etc. In the youth market the best business models are fizzy drinks with alcohol in them, movies with vampires in them and bands with 4-5 hookers or rent boys. Pretty much anything else is random guesswork whether it will be adopted.
By far the most lucrative section is still the baby boomers. They are older now so less desire for a sports car per SE but they are a very large group with the biggest pension pot we'll see for several generations. That's probably the segment MG ought to be aiming at but the low end of that pool is held very well by firms like Hyundai and Kia.
It's bloody hard to think where the MG brand would be able to score big sales, which sector of the market they can take and control serious share in. I just cannot see people wanting some 2 seater roadster from MG when the sector is owned at one end by Mazda who are seeing declining sales and extremely well catered for at the other end by a series of phenominal British specialists from Morgan to Ariel while the premium segment is also strongly covered by the British, Germans and Italians. I see nothing for MG at all. And there is really nothing to re-invent in that sector. It is very old and everything has been done or is being done.
I still quite like the super light SUV concept as a 'car for life'.
You buy the monocoque when a kid and from the options list you spec the small engine and running gear and the really spartan interior with few gadgets. You then have the shell personalised with a range of trim bits.
As you get older and your life dynamics change you then take car car back for relevant changes. So in your mid 20s when you start earning you upgrade your engine, drivetrain and handling pack and maybe also upgrade your interior to leather and why not change the car's colour so it looks new.
Then once you are married and banned from fun you send it for the mid life changes and have 7 seats fitted or space for the dogs and spec the Diesel engine with auto box and remove all the cool trim.
All the parts/options you remove will be refurbed and put up for sale and you receive a share back. New items can be self installed if wanted so you get your spannering needs filled if wanted.
You buy and keep the shell for life but there are infinite options for drive train, handling, exterior and interior. So that it can be personalised to fit almost any requirement or stage of life.
That for me is re-inventing the sports car. It takes the utilitarian/mechano concept of old Landies and Rangies and adapts it with a sports angle for the modern world. It can be as powerful as you want, as economical, as bland, as funky, as samey, as unique and it will be more Eco than any other car could ever dream of being.
For the company they get to sell the most expensive core item up front and concentrate on churning out options packs for massive and continuos after market sales. You lock in your customer for decades not 3 years to your brand so with after sales and financing being the serious revenue earners in this market you will be king.
You also design a unique fixing mechanism for all your options which you patent meaning aftermarket options firms will have to pay a royalty to offer parts and you can keep out the tat merchants etc.
The reality is as follows:
Cost
It is very unlikely to be much under 20K. To get low cost you need big volumes which a small niche player won't have. The MX5 is priced at 18K and shares bits with the RX8 and other cars.
Engine and gearbox
It will have to be a mass produced assembly to work at 20K and probably at much higher prices as well. Given their parts bin this means a front wheel drive unit which means either a FWD layout or a transverse mid engine.
Body and Styling
The price point of 20K will force a steel body and probably a shared (or partly shared) platform. A FWD layout will force a high bonnet line. The only way you will get a small roadster with low styling is to either put the engine in the middle or or in the rear. Nobody will tool up to do the later.
Equipment
There will be lots. Only a few PH types actually want a minimalist sports car. The target market expects lots of toys.
Weight
It will be over a ton. See mass produced driveline, steel body and equipment.
So you will get something like a Fiat Barchetta or an MG-TF or you will not get a sportscar.
Cost
It is very unlikely to be much under 20K. To get low cost you need big volumes which a small niche player won't have. The MX5 is priced at 18K and shares bits with the RX8 and other cars.
Engine and gearbox
It will have to be a mass produced assembly to work at 20K and probably at much higher prices as well. Given their parts bin this means a front wheel drive unit which means either a FWD layout or a transverse mid engine.
Body and Styling
The price point of 20K will force a steel body and probably a shared (or partly shared) platform. A FWD layout will force a high bonnet line. The only way you will get a small roadster with low styling is to either put the engine in the middle or or in the rear. Nobody will tool up to do the later.
Equipment
There will be lots. Only a few PH types actually want a minimalist sports car. The target market expects lots of toys.
Weight
It will be over a ton. See mass produced driveline, steel body and equipment.
So you will get something like a Fiat Barchetta or an MG-TF or you will not get a sportscar.
I like Donkey Apple's idea of a 'car for life'. That's a genuinely innovative idea that no-one else has done. Design the car to be taken apart.
I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
Twincam16 said:
I like Donkey Apple's idea of a 'car for life'. That's a genuinely innovative idea that no-one else has done. Design the car to be taken apart.
I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
I don't think that would work, especially in the UK, where, for a lot of people, a new plate is as, if not more important than the car it's attached to.I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
chris watton said:
Twincam16 said:
I like Donkey Apple's idea of a 'car for life'. That's a genuinely innovative idea that no-one else has done. Design the car to be taken apart.
I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
I don't think that would work, especially in the UK, where, for a lot of people, a new plate is as, if not more important than the car it's attached to.I wouldn't do it as an SUV though, rather a kind of compact estate that could be fitted with SUV wheels if you wanted. Make it look like a sleek shooting-brake, but with 5 seats and a big boot.
Giugiaro did a concept along these lines once called the Formula 4. It was based on the Fiat Bravo and the bodywork could be swapped between roadster, SUV and hatchback too.
But the market is big and they are just a part of it. Most likely with a strong overlap with the company car segment as well.
But for the private buyer I think there is room for the 'car for life' concept.
I agree with TwinCam that actually an estate is more sensible but my idea sees removable and interchangeable from and rear sections around the central monocoque. Both for crash repair simplicity but also so that you can continually roll out new front and rear designs for both new revenue and also to accommodate lifestyle changes. So you could go from a saloon rear section to an estate or even a truck. And as fashions change you can offer different designs. As such, instead of a new plate that demand could be fed by a new section, colour, performance package (obviously with the appropriate badges etc for marketing).
The whole thing would need very clever visual design so that the monocoque was fashionless and stood the test of time while different front, rear and even roof sections could be fitted and visually work.
Land Rover did this 50 years ago for the commercial market but no one has looked to take the concept and twist it to use modern materials and techniques for the retail market.
The Mazda MX5 is still selling in huge numbers worldwide and they had no previous sports car heritage. It may not be the the most exciting machine in the world, [leaving that to up-market marques] but that's missing the point. The MX5, MR2 and the traditional British mass-produced sports cars [MG, Triumph, etc] all promised weekend fun while still being an affordable daily drive - if you could only afford one new car as was and is the case for most people. Stripped-out trackday toys may be great fun but pre-suppose that owners can afford a daily drive as well, that relatively small market is already adequately covered by Caterham, Westfield, Ariel, etc. IMHO there is still a significant market for a relatively inexpensive [sub £25K] sports car that could be used for the daily commute, as a viable alternative to the all-pervading Euro-Jap hatchback it would require a few creature comforts. The target age groups are probably split between relatively successful 30+ people who can afford the insurance but don't yet need 4 seats and 50+ people whose offspring have flown the nest and now want to have some fun [no shame in that]! Mazda do it with the MX5, further up-market there are the Boxster, Z4, SLC, & 370Z [many of these attract 'mature' drivers] so why not use MG's heritage and Chinese finance to create an alternative? There is a tremendous and enduring enthusiasm for MG sports cars - just look at the size of the MGCC and MGOC. Over 500,000 MGBs were built, despite being an anachronism for much of its production life. The MGF and TF sold well until becoming dated and eclipsed by the continually evolving MX5. If there was a successful entry level platform with a relatively modest engine [sub 2000cc perhaps a TDI] it could possibly be used as the basis for larger-engined more up-market variants with potentially greater profit margins once the MG sports car brand was re-established. Dare I say there could also be a slot for a basic front-engined RWD coupe? Think a modern interpretation of the Ford Capri that created a huge a market niche for itself in the '70s and '80s - or is that the Toyoburu?
Because the MX5 is so bloody good at what it sets out to be. That's the real problem. It is at the end of the day the king of a niche sector once owned by British firms and the benchmark.
The odds on beating it at present are slim so your product would simply be the mangy dog taking scraps from the master's table.
It'll fall off the perch at some point, it's been there for 20 years but the business reality is that you rarely knock the daddy off its perch, they fall off themselves and leave the space open for others.
The odds on beating it at present are slim so your product would simply be the mangy dog taking scraps from the master's table.
It'll fall off the perch at some point, it's been there for 20 years but the business reality is that you rarely knock the daddy off its perch, they fall off themselves and leave the space open for others.
DonkeyApple said:
You also design a unique fixing mechanism for all your options which you patent meaning aftermarket options firms will have to pay a royalty to offer parts and you can keep out the tat merchants etc.
Very interesting read, thanks!Really find the long term / modular car idea interesting, the thought of buying something less "disposable" will certainly be appealing to many people. Seems to me that this is some kind of taboo for the major players, as this is very much against their established business model. Must also be easy to build cars that last 20+ years with current materials but this is not happening.
Agree on the critical styling for the core bit. This would need to be form follows function as much as possible IMO, only way it will age well (see LR).
As for the openess of the platform, I think it might be even more of a success if things were not locked down so much. Basically just set minimum standards for the kit and charge x percent royalty. The more value this gives the consumer, the better the sales.
Could even extend to systems / drivetrain etc. If interchangeability was designed into the product that could open some interesting things. Legislation might be problematic though (changing CO2 values etc) but this would also be marketable as a very "green" product.
Quite interesting really. As for MG doing this -- they'd need a few years to convince people they can deliver the quality (I'm sure they can).
bob1179 said:
What happened to the MG6, I've only seen a couple on the road?
MG really need to build up their product presence in the UK before they do anything. I know compared to China we are just a backwater, but it would be great to see MGs being sold in large numbers here again.
.MG really need to build up their product presence in the UK before they do anything. I know compared to China we are just a backwater, but it would be great to see MGs being sold in large numbers here again.
Hi Bob,
I live in China.
I see loads of MG6 and loads of MG5
The first MG3 is essentially a "Rover Streetwise" again, lots of them.
Now there is a new MG3, looks fantastic.
So they are getting made, and well sold over here.
But as said, they need to start selling in far greater numbers externally, and not just in China.
Chatting to a mate last night actually, and he told me he has seen the new MG sports cat, and it was a mid-engined thing.
Not sure about that, as I have never seen one yet.
vette
LuS1fer said:
I want a modern Frog-Eye Sprite complete with no more than 100hp, aluminium body, carpets and electric windows but NO automatic toys, just a craxcking engine note, cracking gearbox and I'm not even going to dictae RWD, FWD will do just fine. I don't care if the door pulls are leatherette loops and that it doesn't even come with a radio as standard but the suspension should be top notch, the steering sharp and quick and the tyres and wheels fairlty narrow - around 185/60s to give progressive breakaway.
Instruments - speedo, tacho, oil pressure temp and fuel.
Open-topped - lightweight folding fabric roof.
Sounds a lot like a Lotus Elise Instruments - speedo, tacho, oil pressure temp and fuel.
Open-topped - lightweight folding fabric roof.
DonkeyApple said:
Definitely a core group for whom this is important and the finance market make a fortune out of this sector.
But the market is big and they are just a part of it. Most likely with a strong overlap with the company car segment as well.
But for the private buyer I think there is room for the 'car for life' concept.
I agree with TwinCam that actually an estate is more sensible but my idea sees removable and interchangeable from and rear sections around the central monocoque. Both for crash repair simplicity but also so that you can continually roll out new front and rear designs for both new revenue and also to accommodate lifestyle changes. So you could go from a saloon rear section to an estate or even a truck. And as fashions change you can offer different designs. As such, instead of a new plate that demand could be fed by a new section, colour, performance package (obviously with the appropriate badges etc for marketing).
The whole thing would need very clever visual design so that the monocoque was fashionless and stood the test of time while different front, rear and even roof sections could be fitted and visually work.
Land Rover did this 50 years ago for the commercial market but no one has looked to take the concept and twist it to use modern materials and techniques for the retail market.
But the market is big and they are just a part of it. Most likely with a strong overlap with the company car segment as well.
But for the private buyer I think there is room for the 'car for life' concept.
I agree with TwinCam that actually an estate is more sensible but my idea sees removable and interchangeable from and rear sections around the central monocoque. Both for crash repair simplicity but also so that you can continually roll out new front and rear designs for both new revenue and also to accommodate lifestyle changes. So you could go from a saloon rear section to an estate or even a truck. And as fashions change you can offer different designs. As such, instead of a new plate that demand could be fed by a new section, colour, performance package (obviously with the appropriate badges etc for marketing).
The whole thing would need very clever visual design so that the monocoque was fashionless and stood the test of time while different front, rear and even roof sections could be fitted and visually work.
Land Rover did this 50 years ago for the commercial market but no one has looked to take the concept and twist it to use modern materials and techniques for the retail market.
I think we're onto something here.Although judging by Autocar's recent road test of the latest diesel 6-speed version of the 6 (which they say is better than an Insignia and a serious rival for an Octavia) it seems like they've got it right, I don't think MG will make much of a dent in a 'default choice' market dominated by the Ford Focus and the Vauxhall Insignia. People will continue to buy these cars regardless because that's what they've always done.
So, by offering something completely unlike anything else on the market, I reckon they could succeed.
I reckon it'd be best to base it on a front-engined, rear-drive platform. I know front-drive is more 'normal', but if a decent six-speed transmission and independent rear suspension layout could be developed around a kind of universal bellhousing, then it'd be possible to swap between a range of engines that could just be pulled straight out of the dismantled front end of the car when an upgrade was desired. Doing this with a transverse engine and transmission is trickier and would add expense. I'd aim for a four-engine range: a three-cylinder turbo petrol unit for minimal-emissions entry-level motoring, a mid-range diesel of about 1.6 litres, a 2-litre diesel motorway slogger, and a sporty two-litre twin-cam with aftermarket turbocharging and supercharging options.
Design a fundamentally strong base-unit, a monococque-frame structure with integral windscreen and roll-bar to underpin it all. Design the dashboard to be minimal and modular, with entire instrument clusters and centre-consoles that can be whipped off and replaced. In order to avoid clocking, I'd do what Aston Martin did with the Lagonda and fit the milometer directly to the engine, so you'd have to check under the bonnet to get the miles done on that engine. It'd make sense given that an engine swap would be an alternative to replacing the whole car, and would be designed to be cost-effective.
The interior and exterior would both be modular. The body panels would be endlessly configurable, fixing to universal mounting points. This would be a boon to the aftermarket too, as companies could develop entire new bodies (and therefore identities) for them without having to go through the rigmarole of designing a whole new car. If the entire front section was a single-piece clamshell (a la Triumph Herald) that flipped forward, then that'd simplify a significant part into a single moulding and would also make bulb replacement easy. Door skins could screw on and off both inside and out, and different top sections could make it a convertible, estate or rugged SUV-type working-vehicle, maybe even a pick-up.
And inside, because of the modular layout, it could be as spartan or as luxurious as you wanted. Look at the VW Up - if you want you can buy a whole new dashboard ssection to plug into the centre-console. The plug is there underneath a blanking plate so you can have a basic car or one with all the electronic toys without having to buy a separate car for each. Universal seat runners could accommodate both hefty electric leather things or lightweight buckets on the same fittings.
And despite what's been said about this market, I actually reckon there's more scope to sell them to the youth market MG has been talking about. I don't think young people these days are as consumed by capitalism as their parents, and they certainly don't have anything like as much money. If you were buying a 'car for life' like this, you could spread payments out manageably over many more years than the typical 2/3-year deal you get on most mainstream cars today. Also, they could buy something fairly simple to start with and upgrade it bit by bit as they got more money.
The business model would balance itself out quite neatly as the shortfall brought about by not selling quite so many cars would be compensated for my the increased involvement of a vast franchised aftermarket that'd have a lot more work to do than most of them.
Also, reflecting harsher economic times, it would be the kind of car that you could work on yourself if you wanted as everything would be designed for easy replacement.
Twincam16 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Definitely a core group for whom this is important and the finance market make a fortune out of this sector.
But the market is big and they are just a part of it. Most likely with a strong overlap with the company car segment as well.
But for the private buyer I think there is room for the 'car for life' concept.
I agree with TwinCam that actually an estate is more sensible but my idea sees removable and interchangeable from and rear sections around the central monocoque. Both for crash repair simplicity but also so that you can continually roll out new front and rear designs for both new revenue and also to accommodate lifestyle changes. So you could go from a saloon rear section to an estate or even a truck. And as fashions change you can offer different designs. As such, instead of a new plate that demand could be fed by a new section, colour, performance package (obviously with the appropriate badges etc for marketing).
The whole thing would need very clever visual design so that the monocoque was fashionless and stood the test of time while different front, rear and even roof sections could be fitted and visually work.
Land Rover did this 50 years ago for the commercial market but no one has looked to take the concept and twist it to use modern materials and techniques for the retail market.
But the market is big and they are just a part of it. Most likely with a strong overlap with the company car segment as well.
But for the private buyer I think there is room for the 'car for life' concept.
I agree with TwinCam that actually an estate is more sensible but my idea sees removable and interchangeable from and rear sections around the central monocoque. Both for crash repair simplicity but also so that you can continually roll out new front and rear designs for both new revenue and also to accommodate lifestyle changes. So you could go from a saloon rear section to an estate or even a truck. And as fashions change you can offer different designs. As such, instead of a new plate that demand could be fed by a new section, colour, performance package (obviously with the appropriate badges etc for marketing).
The whole thing would need very clever visual design so that the monocoque was fashionless and stood the test of time while different front, rear and even roof sections could be fitted and visually work.
Land Rover did this 50 years ago for the commercial market but no one has looked to take the concept and twist it to use modern materials and techniques for the retail market.
I think we're onto something here.Although judging by Autocar's recent road test of the latest diesel 6-speed version of the 6 (which they say is better than an Insignia and a serious rival for an Octavia) it seems like they've got it right, I don't think MG will make much of a dent in a 'default choice' market dominated by the Ford Focus and the Vauxhall Insignia. People will continue to buy these cars regardless because that's what they've always done.
So, by offering something completely unlike anything else on the market, I reckon they could succeed.
I reckon it'd be best to base it on a front-engined, rear-drive platform. I know front-drive is more 'normal', but if a decent six-speed transmission and independent rear suspension layout could be developed around a kind of universal bellhousing, then it'd be possible to swap between a range of engines that could just be pulled straight out of the dismantled front end of the car when an upgrade was desired. Doing this with a transverse engine and transmission is trickier and would add expense. I'd aim for a four-engine range: a three-cylinder turbo petrol unit for minimal-emissions entry-level motoring, a mid-range diesel of about 1.6 litres, a 2-litre diesel motorway slogger, and a sporty two-litre twin-cam with aftermarket turbocharging and supercharging options.
Design a fundamentally strong base-unit, a monococque-frame structure with integral windscreen and roll-bar to underpin it all. Design the dashboard to be minimal and modular, with entire instrument clusters and centre-consoles that can be whipped off and replaced. In order to avoid clocking, I'd do what Aston Martin did with the Lagonda and fit the milometer directly to the engine, so you'd have to check under the bonnet to get the miles done on that engine. It'd make sense given that an engine swap would be an alternative to replacing the whole car, and would be designed to be cost-effective.
The interior and exterior would both be modular. The body panels would be endlessly configurable, fixing to universal mounting points. This would be a boon to the aftermarket too, as companies could develop entire new bodies (and therefore identities) for them without having to go through the rigmarole of designing a whole new car. If the entire front section was a single-piece clamshell (a la Triumph Herald) that flipped forward, then that'd simplify a significant part into a single moulding and would also make bulb replacement easy. Door skins could screw on and off both inside and out, and different top sections could make it a convertible, estate or rugged SUV-type working-vehicle, maybe even a pick-up.
And inside, because of the modular layout, it could be as spartan or as luxurious as you wanted. Look at the VW Up - if you want you can buy a whole new dashboard ssection to plug into the centre-console. The plug is there underneath a blanking plate so you can have a basic car or one with all the electronic toys without having to buy a separate car for each. Universal seat runners could accommodate both hefty electric leather things or lightweight buckets on the same fittings.
And despite what's been said about this market, I actually reckon there's more scope to sell them to the youth market MG has been talking about. I don't think young people these days are as consumed by capitalism as their parents, and they certainly don't have anything like as much money. If you were buying a 'car for life' like this, you could spread payments out manageably over many more years than the typical 2/3-year deal you get on most mainstream cars today. Also, they could buy something fairly simple to start with and upgrade it bit by bit as they got more money.
The business model would balance itself out quite neatly as the shortfall brought about by not selling quite so many cars would be compensated for my the increased involvement of a vast franchised aftermarket that'd have a lot more work to do than most of them.
Also, reflecting harsher economic times, it would be the kind of car that you could work on yourself if you wanted as everything would be designed for easy replacement.
When the whole thing is designed around a premium safety cell you can also look to make panel parts out of differing materials such as polycarbonates, CF, ali, steel, fibreglass etc.
You buy your central tub and front and rear safety cell sub-frames and then spec up the interior level and functionality along with exterior. Select arrive built or in parts, choose payment method and click buy.
Then, as your requirements or finances evolve you simply change whatever you like, again via the dealership of yourself.
The net result is that you end up with an infinite number of designs catering to all tastes, covering almost all core segments but you are only building 3 unit parts and managing a licensing business for all the 'bolt-ons' along with a secondhand sales business that re-conditions and safety checks old parts.
You require very low staff numbers, very low floor space and low ongoing investment as your aftermarket firms are the ones investing in unit development.
It definitely needs to be front engined/rear wheel drive.
The problem with the MGF/TF is that the engine is so difficult to access, if you want to tinker with it. This also means that service bills are higher. people who buy these cars now, really cheap, think that the maintainence will be equally as cheap. Once they find out, to their horror, that it's not, they are scrapped, as they cannot afford to keep them on the road.
Engine in the front would be better.....
The problem with the MGF/TF is that the engine is so difficult to access, if you want to tinker with it. This also means that service bills are higher. people who buy these cars now, really cheap, think that the maintainence will be equally as cheap. Once they find out, to their horror, that it's not, they are scrapped, as they cannot afford to keep them on the road.
Engine in the front would be better.....
chris watton said:
It definitely needs to be front engined/rear wheel drive.
The problem with the MGF/TF is that the engine is so difficult to access, if you want to tinker with it. This also means that service bills are higher. people who buy these cars now, really cheap, think that the maintainence will be equally as cheap. Once they find out, to their horror, that it's not, they are scrapped, as they cannot afford to keep them on the road.
Engine in the front would be better.....
Engine in the front and Japanese build quality would be best. The problem with the MGF/TF is that the engine is so difficult to access, if you want to tinker with it. This also means that service bills are higher. people who buy these cars now, really cheap, think that the maintainence will be equally as cheap. Once they find out, to their horror, that it's not, they are scrapped, as they cannot afford to keep them on the road.
Engine in the front would be better.....
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