RE: Audi plotting hardcore TT

[High Roller]

1000kg = vapourware

[Terry Barr]

rtz62 said:

Hmmmn not sure you're correct in that as the skoda I rode in had a rear-bias, but hey-ho.
Also a German manufacturer has got previous for stripping a car out and charging less; I give you the Porsche 954 RS America.

And indeed the 968CS.

[Terry Barr]

In any case, the only thing that makes sense is to shove the engine/gearbox in the back, RWD a sort of min R8 without the 4WD bits. The only way to make it light and a drivers car. No reason for it not to look like a TT and be called a TT-something-or-other.

[nickfrog]

A RWD Audi would be dangerous given the average Audi driver's total lack of smoothness in their steering/throttle inputs.

[Porsche997C4S]

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

treetops said:

Is it just me or is the TT a bit girly?

Shut up.

Thats abit of a rude reply. I agree, its stupidly girly.

That's just your opinion I guess, like your maserati looks cheap and ugly.

Ha, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I accept it. However, telling someone to "shut up" because they think the TT is abit girly is not really needed.

How's your Beetle? I reckon I've seen at least 20 911's today. What's it like having a boring common car seen on every street corner? I also enjoy that you have chosen the very specific model of Beetle as your username. Just so we're not in any doubt! Funny.

Edited by sgq89 on Monday 26th November 22:46

TT looks 100X better than your car to be fair. I like my beetle thanks, not really boring, shows it's a good car then, no?

[Mr Whippy]

Guvernator said:

doogz said:

Removing 80Kg would not be relatively easy, especially as this article discusses the fact the I5 engine has been proposed, which is presumably heavier than the 4 pot you mention.

Removing 300Kg would be a huge task, lots of composite parts. Possibly lots more aluminium that is already currently used. The kerb weight of the 5 cylinder RS version is a smidgen under 1.5Te.

Removing half a tonne from that car would be incredibly difficult. Where would it come from? Make all the panels from CF? That'll keep the price down

^^^ This. People make removing weight sound like it's just a case of ripping some seats and sound deadening out, it's not. Even dropping 100Kg off the weight of a car while still retaining some NVH and safety aspects, all very important aspects for Audi is a massive task. Look how hard even top tier manufacturers like Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo have to try to keep the weight of their cars reasonable, some Porsche models have plastic windows and bits of string for door handles FFS and none of them are anywhere close to 1000kgs.

As stated before, if this car comes in anywhere close to that weight (without resorting to 6 figure carbon fibre body panels) I'll eat my hat.

Rear seats out (15kg?), lighter wheels (20kg?), dump awd and mount the engine longitudinally (50kg?), dump some sound deadening (the RS is for gheys, a hardcode TT can be noisy and stuff) (10kg?), bucket seats instead of heavy electrics/heated (20kg?)

120kg maybe there... and I'm sure more ally panels, or CF ones, could save another 30-50kg...

A titanium exhaust? Getting expensive now.


I'm sure you could get 200kg off the car fairly easily. The other 100-200kg would get massively expensive though.

Modern cars do come with an impressive array of crap. Safety comes in the form of airbags and monocoque design, so bar the airbags which won't weigh much saying safety is what adds the majority of weight would seem wrong to me.

Bling huge heavy wheels would be the first step. How heavy are the 20" wheels on an RS? Some X5 wheels are about 20kg a corner, M5 ones in the same size might be down near 12kg... is the TT running exotic wheels right now? Probably not that exotic.

If you tick off 200kg, can you then fit smaller brakes? They can get heavy if you are using big steel discs, even with light calipers.

Was a relatively light weight even on high up on the brief for the TT RS to begin with? If it wasn't then you can bet there are some fairly heavy components in there.

Hmmm

Dave

[Maldini35]

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

treetops said:

Is it just me or is the TT a bit girly?

Shut up.

Thats abit of a rude reply. I agree, its stupidly girly.

That's just your opinion I guess, like your maserati looks cheap and ugly.

Ha, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I accept it. However, telling someone to "shut up" because they think the TT is abit girly is not really needed.

How's your Beetle? I reckon I've seen at least 20 911's today. What's it like having a boring common car seen on every street corner? I also enjoy that you have chosen the very specific model of Beetle as your username. Just so we're not in any doubt! Funny.

Edited by sgq89 on Monday 26th November 22:46

TT looks 100X better than your car to be fair. I like my beetle thanks, not really boring, shows it's a good car then, no?

How old are you two?

[cerb4.5lee]

Maldini35 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

treetops said:

Is it just me or is the TT a bit girly?

Shut up.

Thats abit of a rude reply. I agree, its stupidly girly.

That's just your opinion I guess, like your maserati looks cheap and ugly.

Ha, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I accept it. However, telling someone to "shut up" because they think the TT is abit girly is not really needed.

How's your Beetle? I reckon I've seen at least 20 911's today. What's it like having a boring common car seen on every street corner? I also enjoy that you have chosen the very specific model of Beetle as your username. Just so we're not in any doubt! Funny.

Edited by sgq89 on Monday 26th November 22:46

TT looks 100X better than your car to be fair. I like my beetle thanks, not really boring, shows it's a good car then, no?

How old are you two?

They should be grateful at least they don't own a TT like we do, I would sooner have a maser or a Porsche instead of a poxy dressed up VW!!

[Mr Whippy]

doogz said:

Mr Whippy said:

Rear seats out (15kg?), lighter wheels (20kg?), dump awd and mount the engine longitudinally (50kg?), dump some sound deadening (the RS is for gheys, a hardcode TT can be noisy and stuff) (10kg?), bucket seats instead of heavy electrics/heated (20kg?)

120kg maybe there... and I'm sure more ally panels, or CF ones, could save another 30-50kg...

A titanium exhaust? Getting expensive now.


I'm sure you could get 200kg off the car fairly easily. The other 100-200kg would get massively expensive though.

Modern cars do come with an impressive array of crap. Safety comes in the form of airbags and monocoque design, so bar the airbags which won't weigh much saying safety is what adds the majority of weight would seem wrong to me.

Bling huge heavy wheels would be the first step. How heavy are the 20" wheels on an RS? Some X5 wheels are about 20kg a corner, M5 ones in the same size might be down near 12kg... is the TT running exotic wheels right now? Probably not that exotic.

If you tick off 200kg, can you then fit smaller brakes? They can get heavy if you are using big steel discs, even with light calipers.

Was a relatively light weight even on high up on the brief for the TT RS to begin with? If it wasn't then you can bet there are some fairly heavy components in there.

Hmmm

Dave

So now we're onto a chassis redesign to mount the engine the other way around. Yeah, ditching 4WD would save some weight, but really, not a lot. The front driveshafts, the 'box might be a bit lighter, but you're adding a huge amount of cost to the equation here.

You'd maybe be better starting with an RS5 chassis if this is what you want to achieve. Like the Escort Cosworth was evolved from the Sierra, not the run-of-the-mill Escort.

Maybe, I'm not sure really but laterally mounted engines are just a bit dumb for a car that is sending most of it's torque to the back wheels... even more dumb if you want to keep the cars overall inertia low as the engine moves forward for the gearbox.

A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.

Hmmm

Dave

[R32UK]

too much of a girly car to even start as a base imo.

I see a TT on the road and think boring !

I see a TTRS on the road and think boring with too much money

[k-ink]

Sounds great. Mind you some will always moan, even if it laps the ring quicker than a GT3.

[JuniorJet]

predding said:

JuniorJet said:

6 digits is unlikely... but I guarantee it will start with a "6" or a "7"

As you're comments suggest - you seem well positioned to offer this target sales price...so all I would say to the original question is Nope and you can have a heck of alot more car(s) in your garage for this money...

All strength to Audi if there are ppl out ther to buy this concept for this money...

Not really in that position yet, but if my manager will let me offer it for that - I can assure you I will!

RE: see bold
Granted you can, but then in come the arguments of New against Used, how you use the car, what you want from it - and I'll be here all day if I indulge in that...

The incredible thing about the TT RS is how fast AND manageable it can be in all weather conditions, even when it's driven by an idiot!

[sgq89]

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

sgq89 said:

Porsche997C4S said:

treetops said:

Is it just me or is the TT a bit girly?

Shut up.

Thats abit of a rude reply. I agree, its stupidly girly.

That's just your opinion I guess, like your maserati looks cheap and ugly.

Ha, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I accept it. However, telling someone to "shut up" because they think the TT is abit girly is not really needed.

How's your Beetle? I reckon I've seen at least 20 911's today. What's it like having a boring common car seen on every street corner? I also enjoy that you have chosen the very specific model of Beetle as your username. Just so we're not in any doubt! Funny.

Edited by sgq89 on Monday 26th November 22:46

TT looks 100X better than your car to be fair. I like my beetle thanks, not really boring, shows it's a good car then, no?

I've owned a Porsche, and I get far more compliments on my Maserati than I ever did on that, I'll tell you that much for free mate

Porsche = Yawwwwwwwwwnnn

[sgq89]

cerb4.5lee said:

They should be grateful at least they don't own a TT like we do, I would sooner have a maser or a Porsche instead of a poxy dressed up VW!!

I noticed in your garage you have a TT-S and a Z4M, quite interesting to have 2 cars in the same category. Which would you say is better? I'd go for the Z4M every time personally

[hondansx]

I just don't think they are capable of doing it, and this is coming from a Golf R owner which shares the drivetrain. They're just incapable of making driver's cars, and given the countless opportunities they've had, i don't have faith they'll pull something out of the bag.

Not that it matters of course, there isn't a corner i don't go round and see an Audi S-Line model these days. Sell 'em by the bucket loads.

[Zad]

rtz62 said:

"Ford managed to put the engine behind the front diff..."
I take it that's humour, as the diff and transfer box were chain driven on the side of the gearbox which is behind the engine.
At least they were in the 2 4x4's and 1 Sapphire Coswortj I owned.
The first post nailed it for me; an adjustable Haldex controller.

The centre (limited slip) diff is behind the gearbox (that is, towards the rear of the car). The front (open) diff is at the front of the engine, to one side. The left half-shaft goes through the front of the engine sump.

The XR4x4 also only weighs 1280 kg. No intrusion bars etc, but also 5 doors, huge boot, cast iron engine.

Edited by Zad on Tuesday 27th November 20:47

[drpep]

lemme guess... more understeery 4WD waaaaank fest. Max power styling. Sole preserve of west-London tossers and other 'i really like cars but what's a slip diff' detritus.

Pass.

[cerb4.5lee]

sgq89 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

They should be grateful at least they don't own a TT like we do, I would sooner have a maser or a Porsche instead of a poxy dressed up VW!!

I noticed in your garage you have a TT-S and a Z4M, quite interesting to have 2 cars in the same category. Which would you say is better? I'd go for the Z4M every time personally

The Z4M easily, it's involving to drive can be a handful if you want it to be & has a lovely powerplant so it serves up plenty of fun, the TT on the other hand has lifeless steering non confidence inspiring handling with oodles of understeer it's a real disappointment to drive which is gutting when you consider what we paid for it!

The TT will stay over winter for the Quattro but come march time next year it will be chopped in for something else, the TT is lovely to look at but once you start driving it goes down hill fast!

Thanks for asking

[HighwayStar]

Mr Whippy said:

Maybe, I'm not sure really but laterally mounted engines are just a bit dumb for a car that is sending most of it's torque to the back wheels... even more dumb if you want to keep the cars overall inertia low as the engine moves forward for the gearbox.

A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.

Hmmm

Dave

Mounting the engine longitudinally in the TT just isn't going to happen. The engine room isn't big enough. It would mean to complete rethink of the design philosophy of the car. I don't see Audi extending the bonnet and pushing the engine back and low behind the front axial line, front mid engine stylee. Then strip it down.
As had been pointed out, making a car lighter isn't easy... The Gallardo Superlegerra is only about 100kg lighter than the standard car! A lot of people think they want a stripped car but then spec electric this n that, air con etc.

[Kong]

I hate it when this happens, some marketing guy makes some off-the-cuff remark about a car which 'could' weigh 1000kg. Anyone who knows about cars knows that wont happen under any circumstances. But then everyone debates it anyway and loses focus about what the real car could be like!

I haven't driven a TT but the consensus is they are a bit dull to drive. But I'm thinking if they did lots of relatively small things they could all add up. Knock off 100kg, slight power boost, bit more power to the back and tweak the steering. It would be more fun to drive and I doubt anything this side of a GTR would see which way it went.