RE: Audi plotting hardcore TT
Discussion
TT has 2 core DNA traits, blandness and monotony, thats it.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
HighwayStar said:
Mr Whippy said:
Maybe, I'm not sure really but laterally mounted engines are just a bit dumb for a car that is sending most of it's torque to the back wheels... even more dumb if you want to keep the cars overall inertia low as the engine moves forward for the gearbox.
A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
Mounting the engine longitudinally in the TT just isn't going to happen. The engine room isn't big enough. It would mean to complete rethink of the design philosophy of the car. I don't see Audi extending the bonnet and pushing the engine back and low behind the front axial line, front mid engine stylee. Then strip it down.A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
As had been pointed out, making a car lighter isn't easy... The Gallardo Superlegerra is only about 100kg lighter than the standard car! A lot of people think they want a stripped car but then spec electric this n that, air con etc.
t, because it's flawed right off the bat.I don't get how the A4 Quattro (the older 2.0 TFSI) can fit in the engine long vs lat, but the TT can't. Hey ho.
As for making it lighter, the Gallardo probably had weight high on it's agenda, so harder to save weight cheaply or easily.
You can probably save a lot of weight on a car where weight wasn't high on the list of priorities vs ones where it was.
Audi probably won't do anything interesting with a hardcore TT then. More like the 1.8 T sporty version they did. Rear seats out, a carbon roof (was it?) and maybe an over-boost feature or something to make the numbers a bit bigger on paper.
Hardcore indeed
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
HighwayStar said:
Mr Whippy said:
Maybe, I'm not sure really but laterally mounted engines are just a bit dumb for a car that is sending most of it's torque to the back wheels... even more dumb if you want to keep the cars overall inertia low as the engine moves forward for the gearbox.
A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
Mounting the engine longitudinally in the TT just isn't going to happen. The engine room isn't big enough. It would mean to complete rethink of the design philosophy of the car. I don't see Audi extending the bonnet and pushing the engine back and low behind the front axial line, front mid engine stylee. Then strip it down.A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
As had been pointed out, making a car lighter isn't easy... The Gallardo Superlegerra is only about 100kg lighter than the standard car! A lot of people think they want a stripped car but then spec electric this n that, air con etc.
t, because it's flawed right off the bat.I don't get how the A4 Quattro (the older 2.0 TFSI) can fit in the engine long vs lat, but the TT can't. Hey ho.
As for making it lighter, the Gallardo probably had weight high on it's agenda, so harder to save weight cheaply or easily.
You can probably save a lot of weight on a car where weight wasn't high on the list of priorities vs ones where it was.
Audi probably won't do anything interesting with a hardcore TT then. More like the 1.8 T sporty version they did. Rear seats out, a carbon roof (was it?) and maybe an over-boost feature or something to make the numbers a bit bigger on paper.
Hardcore indeed
Dave
C'mon man... The the A4 and the TT are built on different platforms. The TT was designed for a transverse engine that's why it won't fit north-south!!! There isn't the room. I have a TTS so I would know. It would need a total redesign which is different to making it fit what's already there!!!
R32UK said:
too much of a girly car to even start as a base imo.
I see a TT on the road and think boring!
I see a TTRS on the road and think boring with too much money
Plus TTRS owners have been voted biggest pricks on car forums by many a forum.I see a TT on the road and think boring
!I see a TTRS on the road and think boring
with too much moneyJust take a look at these guys on here...
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&...
And then notice the same guys who have joined the GT-R forum to tell the owners on their that 'my car is faster than yours'.
What a load of bell ends!!
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&...
Check out a typical comment....
Originally Posted by TTRStooFAST4u said:
Pay attention now, and you will learn something.
A Audi is a premium brand, it's not a Renault, a Hyundai, ford or Nissan.
It's bought by aspirational people. People with a bit of class who like to get from A to B in comfort and style. Audi (and Porsche) recognise their target market have money, and that their brand is desirable. Therefore they can boost their income by making everything a optional extra. They have worked out that their brand image is so strong that people will pay the premium without squabble.
And this is how business works. Go back to school
I reckon he is doing more for making Audi look bad than anyone like Clarkson has managed, I would genuinely feel embarrassed to be seen in a TT after reading those threads, let alone own one. A Audi is a premium brand, it's not a Renault, a Hyundai, ford or Nissan.
It's bought by aspirational people. People with a bit of class who like to get from A to B in comfort and style. Audi (and Porsche) recognise their target market have money, and that their brand is desirable. Therefore they can boost their income by making everything a optional extra. They have worked out that their brand image is so strong that people will pay the premium without squabble.
And this is how business works. Go back to school
Pistonwot said:
TT has 2 core DNA traits, blandness and monotony, thats it.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Yawn, here we go again.As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Audi cannot produce dynamic cars? I suggest you drive an R8 or perhaps the new RS4. The reviews are pretty conclusive. And the journo's have actually DRIVEN the cars.
Seen Steve Sutcliffe's article in this week's Autocar? A1 quattro 'humiliates' track specc'd GTR on a wet circuit.
So, as for not being capable of making dynamic cars, the facts suggest otherwise.
But then you've never been overly concerned with the facts as evidenced by your ridiculous assertions regarding Audi's daytime running lights in previous posts. Something about them killing bikers and greedy Audi executives not giving a damn. Offensive, ill-informed and crucially just makes you sound like a moron with an axe to grind.
For a reminder of your moronic, bitter ramblings:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Maldini35 said:
Pistonwot said:
TT has 2 core DNA traits, blandness and monotony, thats it.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Yawn, here we go again.As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Audi cannot produce dynamic cars? I suggest you drive an R8 or perhaps the new RS4. The reviews are pretty conclusive. And the journo's have actually DRIVEN the cars.
Seen Steve Sutcliffe's article in this week's Autocar? A1 quattro 'humiliates' track specc'd GTR on a wet circuit.
So, as for not being capable of making dynamic cars, the facts suggest otherwise.
But then you've never been overly concerned with the facts as evidenced by your ridiculous assertions regarding Audi's daytime running lights in previous posts. Something about them killing bikers and greedy Audi executives not giving a damn. Offensive, ill-informed and crucially just makes you sound like a moron with an axe to grind.
For a reminder of your moronic, bitter ramblings:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
HighwayStar said:
Maldini35 said:
Pistonwot said:
TT has 2 core DNA traits, blandness and monotony, thats it.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Yawn, here we go again.As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Audi cannot produce dynamic cars? I suggest you drive an R8 or perhaps the new RS4. The reviews are pretty conclusive. And the journo's have actually DRIVEN the cars.
Seen Steve Sutcliffe's article in this week's Autocar? A1 quattro 'humiliates' track specc'd GTR on a wet circuit.
So, as for not being capable of making dynamic cars, the facts suggest otherwise.
But then you've never been overly concerned with the facts as evidenced by your ridiculous assertions regarding Audi's daytime running lights in previous posts. Something about them killing bikers and greedy Audi executives not giving a damn. Offensive, ill-informed and crucially just makes you sound like a moron with an axe to grind.
For a reminder of your moronic, bitter ramblings:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm not defending their entire range - just giving a response to the lazy sterotyping that seems to be aimed at Audi.
Audi are incapable of making a dynamic car was the accusation. This is plainly untrue.
Maldini35 said:
HighwayStar said:
Maldini35 said:
Pistonwot said:
TT has 2 core DNA traits, blandness and monotony, thats it.
As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Yawn, here we go again.As I see it, the TT will never be a dynamic car because Audi cannot produce dynamic cars.
Audi really do go the extra mile in the name of drudgery, theyve even managed to make Le Mans boring.
They are too preoccupied making world platforms/huge profits at the cost of dynamics, driver involvement and fun.
Their multi brand drudgery is wholesale and carried out with passion.
Audi cannot produce dynamic cars? I suggest you drive an R8 or perhaps the new RS4. The reviews are pretty conclusive. And the journo's have actually DRIVEN the cars.
Seen Steve Sutcliffe's article in this week's Autocar? A1 quattro 'humiliates' track specc'd GTR on a wet circuit.
So, as for not being capable of making dynamic cars, the facts suggest otherwise.
But then you've never been overly concerned with the facts as evidenced by your ridiculous assertions regarding Audi's daytime running lights in previous posts. Something about them killing bikers and greedy Audi executives not giving a damn. Offensive, ill-informed and crucially just makes you sound like a moron with an axe to grind.
For a reminder of your moronic, bitter ramblings:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm not defending their entire range - just giving a response to the lazy sterotyping that seems to be aimed at Audi.
Audi are incapable of making a dynamic car was the accusation. This is plainly untrue.
Yes it's the annoying thing, Audi can do it. I just wish their engineers would just get stuck in the way BMW, Renault Sport and even Ford do!
james28 said:
Each to there own
i love my rs and find it anything but bland and boring
I wouldn't call it bland or boring, just not the car it could be... Give the TT's some steering feel, some involvement and it would be so much more. I love mine to a point but it could be so much better. For me it doesn't have to be perfect just a bit more personality.i love my rs and find it anything but bland and boring
HighwayStar said:
Mr Whippy said:
HighwayStar said:
Mr Whippy said:
Maybe, I'm not sure really but laterally mounted engines are just a bit dumb for a car that is sending most of it's torque to the back wheels... even more dumb if you want to keep the cars overall inertia low as the engine moves forward for the gearbox.
A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
Mounting the engine longitudinally in the TT just isn't going to happen. The engine room isn't big enough. It would mean to complete rethink of the design philosophy of the car. I don't see Audi extending the bonnet and pushing the engine back and low behind the front axial line, front mid engine stylee. Then strip it down.A hardcore TT wouldn't be anything of the sort if it retains the laterally mounted engine. The changes have to start by going long-mounted, and then the argument for awd at all starts to become hard to justify if you want weight and performance.
Hmmm
Dave
As had been pointed out, making a car lighter isn't easy... The Gallardo Superlegerra is only about 100kg lighter than the standard car! A lot of people think they want a stripped car but then spec electric this n that, air con etc.
t, because it's flawed right off the bat.I don't get how the A4 Quattro (the older 2.0 TFSI) can fit in the engine long vs lat, but the TT can't. Hey ho.
As for making it lighter, the Gallardo probably had weight high on it's agenda, so harder to save weight cheaply or easily.
You can probably save a lot of weight on a car where weight wasn't high on the list of priorities vs ones where it was.
Audi probably won't do anything interesting with a hardcore TT then. More like the 1.8 T sporty version they did. Rear seats out, a carbon roof (was it?) and maybe an over-boost feature or something to make the numbers a bit bigger on paper.
Hardcore indeed
Dave
C'mon man... The the A4 and the TT are built on different platforms. The TT was designed for a transverse engine that's why it won't fit north-south!!! There isn't the room. I have a TTS so I would know. It would need a total redesign which is different to making it fit what's already there!!!
It will fit, it just depends how hard you want to work.
I suppose the biggest issue is the transmission won't go down a tunnel that doesn't exist... hmmm...
Anyway, PH's silly headline "plotting" and "hardcore" are both misleading. They are not plotting, they are thinking, or planning. It's not hardcore with a lateral engine. The fabled S2/RS2, RS4 and all those cars had long engines, not lat. It'll never be anything seriously hardcore with a fundamentally bad engine/gearbox layout for hardcore use... oooer.
Dave
Now we're getting there, a specialist conversion... Of course it can be done but we're talking about a mainstream care... It's the way Audi chose to design and build it. They're not going to built mk3 TT, TTS & RS with transverse lump and then totally re-engineer an RS GT3 with a long engine. Hardcore transverse can be done, R26R... Audi just need to try harder
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