RE: PH Fleet: TVR Chimaera and Mazda MX-5
Discussion
This thread is so typical of PistonHeads!
Garlick gives us the latest episode of his motoring soap opera for men (and a few enlightened women too - wouldn't want to be accused of being sexist!
), to keep us informed/entertain us/give us advice/get things off his chest, and is instantly met with a barrage of accusations of being: irresponsible/misguiding/foolish/gullible along with various other insinuations.
Irresponsible/misguiding?:
Apparently so, based on giving people the impression that TVR's are capable of generating bills that run into the thousands of pounds, when every TVR owner knows that these cars can be run for year after year for pennies because nothing ever goes wrong with them.
In true PH fashion, having said what work and parts have been required on his car, replies come flying in to say: "I've never encountered those problems with My car so you're talking rubbish!"
On a similar note, on the BMW section of the Forum, someone once asked: "BMW E36's - What goes wrong with them?", so, based on My experiences (either directly or otherwise), I posted a list of the most common faults that they can suffer from. Straight away owners came onto the thread posting such nonsense as: "You're talking rubbish pal!, me and my mates have owned E36's and we've never had any of that go wrong so it doesn't happen!"; "Bloody hell!, if I'd read that list before buying mine I would never have bothered getting one! - you're just putting people off buying one!".
Too many owners on PH seem to be incapable of accepting that, just because you've never experienced certain problems on your particular car, that doesn't mean that they don't happen! (Even when there's plenty of on-line evidence to prove that these faults do occur they still want to argue against it!).
Some even go to the lengths of suggesting that Garlick is being dishonest in what he is reporting!, as if he's making it all up! (Mmmm.....
- that sounds familiar!).
Foolish/gullible? :
Some people here seem to think that Garlick is breaking some sort of secret code of practice that entitles him to be a true car enthusiast because he pays a specialist to work on his car rather than repair it himself.
Again, more accusations come in declaring him to be some sort of gullible mug, wasting his money on repairs that he could (or in some peoples minds - should), do himself. There are suggestions that the people who work on his car are ripping him off for work that isn't really required (seemingly based again on the premise that their car doesn't need this work doing so Garlick's can't require it either!).
Then they state that even if the work was required, no way does it cost that much!(BTW, that's quite some talent - being able to assess work required on a vehicle without ever seeing the vehicle in question! - You people should go into business with that, you'd make a fortune!
).
I don't know what it's like for Garlick, but in My experience, in My more youthful days, I spent more than My fair share of free time lying on uncomfortable gravel/tarmac/concrete or bent over at an awkward angle in an engine bay whilst twisting round to get some sort of access to a part ( strangely enough, usually with rain dripping down My neck/backside or both - why does it always have to rain when you're repairing a car?), cutting My knuckles, bruising My fingers, swearing at seized bolts, taking off parts and then trying to fit the new part only to discover it was the wrong part and wouldn't fit and I couldn't re-fit the old part because it either broke when it came off or was unusable due to it's failure, and I couldn't get a replacement because it was late Sunday afternoon, everywhere was now closed and so I was facing a 6 mile walk to work and back every day until the new part turned up! Oh what fun!
Now I'm older and in the fortunate position of being able to afford to pay others to cut their knuckles, bruise their fingers and have all the aggravation, that's what I choose to do and I suspect it's the same for Garlick.
Here's some shocking news: Not everyone enjoys working on cars!
It's true!, some of us loathe having to repair cars!
Yes there can be a certain amount of satisfaction when you've repaired a car yourself but a big part of that is relief that you've finally got past all the bloody aggravation involved in doing the job!
With the recent recession, I had to do some repairs Myself and it really made Me think! - "God, I wish I could afford to pay someone else to do this s
t!". Why? - because it was a pain in the ae!
For some of us, this clip sums the situation up nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5cL-h3Pj1o
Garlick gives us the latest episode of his motoring soap opera for men (and a few enlightened women too - wouldn't want to be accused of being sexist!
), to keep us informed/entertain us/give us advice/get things off his chest, and is instantly met with a barrage of accusations of being: irresponsible/misguiding/foolish/gullible along with various other insinuations. Irresponsible/misguiding?:
Apparently so, based on giving people the impression that TVR's are capable of generating bills that run into the thousands of pounds, when every TVR owner knows that these cars can be run for year after year for pennies because nothing ever goes wrong with them.
In true PH fashion, having said what work and parts have been required on his car, replies come flying in to say: "I've never encountered those problems with My car so you're talking rubbish!"
On a similar note, on the BMW section of the Forum, someone once asked: "BMW E36's - What goes wrong with them?", so, based on My experiences (either directly or otherwise), I posted a list of the most common faults that they can suffer from. Straight away owners came onto the thread posting such nonsense as: "You're talking rubbish pal!, me and my mates have owned E36's and we've never had any of that go wrong so it doesn't happen!"; "Bloody hell!, if I'd read that list before buying mine I would never have bothered getting one! - you're just putting people off buying one!".
Too many owners on PH seem to be incapable of accepting that, just because you've never experienced certain problems on your particular car, that doesn't mean that they don't happen! (Even when there's plenty of on-line evidence to prove that these faults do occur they still want to argue against it!).
Some even go to the lengths of suggesting that Garlick is being dishonest in what he is reporting!, as if he's making it all up! (Mmmm.....
- that sounds familiar!).Foolish/gullible? :
Some people here seem to think that Garlick is breaking some sort of secret code of practice that entitles him to be a true car enthusiast because he pays a specialist to work on his car rather than repair it himself.
Again, more accusations come in declaring him to be some sort of gullible mug, wasting his money on repairs that he could (or in some peoples minds - should), do himself. There are suggestions that the people who work on his car are ripping him off for work that isn't really required (seemingly based again on the premise that their car doesn't need this work doing so Garlick's can't require it either!).
Then they state that even if the work was required, no way does it cost that much!(BTW, that's quite some talent - being able to assess work required on a vehicle without ever seeing the vehicle in question! - You people should go into business with that, you'd make a fortune!
).I don't know what it's like for Garlick, but in My experience, in My more youthful days, I spent more than My fair share of free time lying on uncomfortable gravel/tarmac/concrete or bent over at an awkward angle in an engine bay whilst twisting round to get some sort of access to a part ( strangely enough, usually with rain dripping down My neck/backside or both - why does it always have to rain when you're repairing a car?), cutting My knuckles, bruising My fingers, swearing at seized bolts, taking off parts and then trying to fit the new part only to discover it was the wrong part and wouldn't fit and I couldn't re-fit the old part because it either broke when it came off or was unusable due to it's failure, and I couldn't get a replacement because it was late Sunday afternoon, everywhere was now closed and so I was facing a 6 mile walk to work and back every day until the new part turned up! Oh what fun!
Now I'm older and in the fortunate position of being able to afford to pay others to cut their knuckles, bruise their fingers and have all the aggravation, that's what I choose to do and I suspect it's the same for Garlick.
Here's some shocking news: Not everyone enjoys working on cars!
It's true!, some of us loathe having to repair cars!
Yes there can be a certain amount of satisfaction when you've repaired a car yourself but a big part of that is relief that you've finally got past all the bloody aggravation involved in doing the job!
With the recent recession, I had to do some repairs Myself and it really made Me think! - "God, I wish I could afford to pay someone else to do this s
t!". Why? - because it was a pain in the ae!For some of us, this clip sums the situation up nicely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5cL-h3Pj1o
Garlick said:
What a brilliant post! If only I'd known this three years ago.
I'll start writing the advert with the opening line of 'I didn't want to fix my car in the dark one night after work so it's time to sell'
You might as well cos its how you made the blog sound.I'll start writing the advert with the opening line of 'I didn't want to fix my car in the dark one night after work so it's time to sell'
TVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face
.I still like it the second time around. Posts of the year for me.
Please don't read this or you'll kill me: http://www.pistonheads.com/features/default.asp?st... and avoid the one about the LS suspension rebuild...oh and the RS2 brakes
Anyway, time to move on as it wasn't really about the radiator...it was more about the MOT expense and that but sir, you may have your opinion as that's what forums are for.
Got to go as a man is delivering my shopping
Please don't read this or you'll kill me: http://www.pistonheads.com/features/default.asp?st... and avoid the one about the LS suspension rebuild...oh and the RS2 brakes
Anyway, time to move on as it wasn't really about the radiator...it was more about the MOT expense and that but sir, you may have your opinion as that's what forums are for.
Got to go as a man is delivering my shopping
julian64 said:
You might as well cos its how you made the blog sound.
TVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face.
What a load of bTVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face
.ks!As I'm hoping to do something similar in the future, I found this thread very interesting and enjoy the fleet updates.
People seem to forget TVR's are very quick sports cars/supercars in some cases and were hand built. Compare the costs with similar priced Merecedes or other companies and I suspect they wouldn't seem so pricy.
Also, which is going to be easier to sell, a TVR with numerous receipts from a well-known specialist or something that has been worked on by an owner. Receipts just by themselves might look good but people will go for the car looked after by a specialist.
(Not having a go at people who work on their own cars btw)
People seem to forget TVR's are very quick sports cars/supercars in some cases and were hand built. Compare the costs with similar priced Merecedes or other companies and I suspect they wouldn't seem so pricy.
Also, which is going to be easier to sell, a TVR with numerous receipts from a well-known specialist or something that has been worked on by an owner. Receipts just by themselves might look good but people will go for the car looked after by a specialist.
(Not having a go at people who work on their own cars btw)
julian64 said:
Garlick said:
What a brilliant post! If only I'd known this three years ago.
I'll start writing the advert with the opening line of 'I didn't want to fix my car in the dark one night after work so it's time to sell'
You might as well cos its how you made the blog sound.I'll start writing the advert with the opening line of 'I didn't want to fix my car in the dark one night after work so it's time to sell'
TVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face
. Jeeze some people... Lazygraduate said:
julian64 said:
You might as well cos its how you made the blog sound.
TVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face.
What a load of bTVRs never were well put together. They were loosly based on the old colin chapman idea of avoiding tax by offering the lotus seven. It was designed as a car, not for the working man, but for students or enthusiats to put together and have fun with. If someone who looked like a family man walked in they directed him away from the lotus seven to something a bit more inkeeping.
I suspect if you had gone in to buy a lotus seven and told them you were the sort of enthusiast who either didn't have an interest in spanners, or that you paid people to do the dirty work on the car, they would have called the rover company next door for a salesman to escort you away.
No, in my opinion if you pay someone to do a simple job like fix a leak in a radiator you are not a petrol head, and have no business buying a car which is marketed exactly at that sort of person who would, and then writing a blog moaning about how it inconvenienced you. As I said in my post the reason you like the MX5 in your article has nothing to do with the car. It has to do with your attitude toward cars. After all the MX5 is unlikely to let you down.
Only my opinion, and I'm sure others will be along to rubbish me and comfort you, but I would feel some significant shame writing for a national driver enthusiast website and admitting the above.
Still, way of the world and all that. I'll just go away now and rub some more moisturiser into my face
.ks!
Another thumbs up for Mk1 MX5's (actually a Eunos).
Having driven numerous forced induction cars over the years - mainly turbos my S/c Mk1 has brought back the joy of driving. It's not particularly fast at the top end but thanks to other sensible additions such as a set of Bilsteins, Torsen diff, poly bushes and coil packs it leaves many scratching their heads as to how quick an MX5 can be.
We stormed over Alpines passes in May, participated in track-days and Autosolos and seem to go most places with the top down in preference to the tin-top.
Not since I owned an original Mk1 Golf Gti (in the days when you waved at other GTi owners there were so few on the road) has motoring been such fun and so affordable.
I might even be forced to give up the F27 as it's not really seeing the light of day.
Cheers, Pewe.
Having driven numerous forced induction cars over the years - mainly turbos my S/c Mk1 has brought back the joy of driving. It's not particularly fast at the top end but thanks to other sensible additions such as a set of Bilsteins, Torsen diff, poly bushes and coil packs it leaves many scratching their heads as to how quick an MX5 can be.
We stormed over Alpines passes in May, participated in track-days and Autosolos and seem to go most places with the top down in preference to the tin-top.
Not since I owned an original Mk1 Golf Gti (in the days when you waved at other GTi owners there were so few on the road) has motoring been such fun and so affordable.
I might even be forced to give up the F27 as it's not really seeing the light of day.
Cheers, Pewe.
TheLastPost said:
julian64 said:
I firmly believe that TVR would still have a viable business model, and still be around if the owners bought the car signing a piece of paper to say they understood the kit car nature of the vehicle, and a list of kit car like failures that they wouldn't bring it back to the factory for.
Are you serious?!Quite apart from being illegal, such a disclaimer would destroy any company's credibility instantly and turn them into a complet laughing stock!
'We are incapable of building an acceptable product and we expect you to sign this disclaimer acknowledging such before we are prepared to sell it to you. And oh, by the way, our intermediate service intervals consist of checking the brake pad thickness, fluid levels, bulbs, and a replacement for the chocolate engine we're about to sell you, you mug'.
Yeah, right. I'll have two, please.
julian64 said:
Nope its not. I firmly believe that TVR would still have a viable business model, and still be around if the owners bought the car signing a piece of paper to say they understood the kit car nature of the vehicle, and a list of kit car like failures that they wouldn't bring it back to the factory for.
At about the same time people were prepared to say they they never touched a spanner and were proud of that, TVR went under.
I remember a conversation I once had where the same argument was being used by the head engineer in west malling TVR. He told me of a Tuscan customer who bought a tuscan back thirteen times in the first year, mainly because a corner of the carpet had come away. Each time they sprayed a bit of adhesive at it and stuck it back, each time he came back because he wasn't satisfied, even wrote them a letter to say the car was not fit for purpose because of the poor repair on the carpet and seemed aghast when he was told the whole carpet was secured that way.
Fairly tongue in cheek they actually presented him with a can of spray free, and eventually offered to take the car back off his hands.
Now that buyers indignation would be entirely justified had he had bought an MX5. Its a great little car designed to be reliable for the money. TVR was however a car designed for performance, not reliability. Anyone whos owned a TVR for any length of time has a toolkit in the back. Even the warranty companies became far and few between for TVRs because they didn't want to take them on.
In garlicks case, top up the radiator, and get it home. If the water pours out the bottom of the car as soon as you put it in a hose has gone and you either get underneath and secure the clip back on or you're buggered, but more than likely if its a small hole and you monitor the temp, you can continue to top up the radiator and get home. Getting the radiator our takes about an hour and doesn't require much in the way of tools. Getting a raditor repaired cost about 50-100 quid.
TVR marketed a put together KIT car, which gave maximum performance for minimum buck, but the downside was that the owner had to be understanding of this.
Smolenski didn't kill TVR, he inherited a business model that the previous owner of TVR watched dissapear because people liked the idea of a TVR but actually needed an MX5.
I'm not really trying to get at Garlick. I just see red when an article has both cars in and trys any sort of compare and contrast
If they can't sort out carpet, what make you think they can sort anything else?At about the same time people were prepared to say they they never touched a spanner and were proud of that, TVR went under.
I remember a conversation I once had where the same argument was being used by the head engineer in west malling TVR. He told me of a Tuscan customer who bought a tuscan back thirteen times in the first year, mainly because a corner of the carpet had come away. Each time they sprayed a bit of adhesive at it and stuck it back, each time he came back because he wasn't satisfied, even wrote them a letter to say the car was not fit for purpose because of the poor repair on the carpet and seemed aghast when he was told the whole carpet was secured that way.
Fairly tongue in cheek they actually presented him with a can of spray free, and eventually offered to take the car back off his hands.
Now that buyers indignation would be entirely justified had he had bought an MX5. Its a great little car designed to be reliable for the money. TVR was however a car designed for performance, not reliability. Anyone whos owned a TVR for any length of time has a toolkit in the back. Even the warranty companies became far and few between for TVRs because they didn't want to take them on.
In garlicks case, top up the radiator, and get it home. If the water pours out the bottom of the car as soon as you put it in a hose has gone and you either get underneath and secure the clip back on or you're buggered, but more than likely if its a small hole and you monitor the temp, you can continue to top up the radiator and get home. Getting the radiator our takes about an hour and doesn't require much in the way of tools. Getting a raditor repaired cost about 50-100 quid.
TVR marketed a put together KIT car, which gave maximum performance for minimum buck, but the downside was that the owner had to be understanding of this.
Smolenski didn't kill TVR, he inherited a business model that the previous owner of TVR watched dissapear because people liked the idea of a TVR but actually needed an MX5.
I'm not really trying to get at Garlick. I just see red when an article has both cars in and trys any sort of compare and contrast
I don't think the general public should put up with performance cars with kit car failures on the road. What on earth stopped TVR from building cars properly in the first place?
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