RE: 2015 Honda Civic Type R: the engineers talk

[havoc]

rb5er said:

Again comparing a 1700kg barge with a 1100kg lotus. Making compliant suspension which is also sporty on 2 cars so disimilar is a completely different thing. Perhaps compare apples with apples and tell me what car of similar size to yours and just as sporty in its handling characteristics has a much more compliant but just as sporty ride in your book?

The Renault Sports excel on the ring and yet do not get slated for rock hard suspension therefore this problem is not a given and may never exist at all. The ride may be hard but I doubt it can ever be any worse than the last CTR especially on the silly 19inch alloys and that car was not chasing Ring lap times.

Yes laptimes are not the be all and end all but it is a good pointer that the car will be quick and driver focussed.

Again, making a car that is fast on the Ring is likely to make for a car that is great on the road, as are all the examples so far given.

OK, my DC2 has a slightly more compliant ride than my wife's MkV GTi. Sounds odd, but it's true.

At the time of launch the DC2 was considered too raw (fair comment) and stiff (!) for a daily driver. F-fwd 10 years and the MkV GTi is the 'everyday all-rounder' of hot-hatches, whilst the VXR, Focus (ST and RS), CTR and the Cup-spec Megane are all stiffer still. WHAT THE fk?!?!? When did we lose the nerves in our spines???

Next step - E46 M3. Now I consider this still to be the consummate real-world all-rounder, but even on 18"s it's STIFF on British roads, worse on 19"s. IMHO (I drive an ITR 22 miles to work) it's borderline too stiff for a daily driver. And, guess what, the E92 M3 is stiffer still, as are all of the current competition. WHAT THE fk TWICE?!?

Now for the kicker...the GTR. It's a genuine 'ringmeister...yet take it down a typical B-road and you'd go back afterwards to look for your fillings. It's not intended to be used on B-roads...but as a result IMHO loses some driver appeal in the UK.



There's a reason for all this - high speed stability. A car that can only do 140 doesn't need to be excessively stiff. An equivalent one that can do 160 or 180 needs that bit more stability*.

Except that's not strictly true...there's another reason - dampers are expensive. And they're an easy way to save development costs too - claim a good 'ring time and the fanboys will "lap it up" and buy your car without caring about the future chiropractor bills. That 160mph car doesn't need to be as stiff as it is - my NSX is the fastest yet the softest-riding of our 3 cars...because it has excellent dampers, which Honda spent money on. Surprise suprise the ITR's dampers are also pricier than any current hot-hatch (possible exception of Focus RS / Megane R26.R type stuff).



* It also means that cars designed for north of 150 are often not that involving at legal speeds in the UK...they're rock-solid stable at 60/70/80.

[davidcharles]

perhaps its time for Honda to develop a type r seperately , like Nissan did with the GTR. No constraints then with the current civic they would be using...perhaps something along the lines of a more hardcore Gt86 would be a good place to start??

[davidcharles]

rb5er said:

I disagree massively. I friend had a bronze FN2 in 2008 with the 19`s and the ride was worse than any car I have been in in my life, crashy and rock hard, just terrible. I drove it extensively and it was quick and revvy as expected with very direct if a bit lifeless steering but I much preferred my Focus ST in every single way.

I liked the interior too, great seats and a spaceage dash with integrated sat nav etc but the rest of the car was quite lacklustre.

19" rages do make an already stiff ride much worse. On 18's its still harsh but not as bad as is made out by some. Its an overlooked car the FN2 and i have been surprised how good it is...perhaps i listened to internet "slating" too much....

[AMG01]

davidcharles said:

19" rages do make an already stiff ride much worse. On 18's its still harsh but not as bad as is made out by some. Its an overlooked car the FN2 and i have been surprised how good it is...perhaps i listened to internet "slating" too much....

I have an FN2 with the 19" rages, yeah it's harsh but I don't find it that bad and I prefer the alloys lookswise, over the 18" standard items, everyone has an opinion etc. I have had it for approx 18 months and love the car. The interior is cracking and the seats really comfy, when I want to give it the beans its plenty fast for me. No plans to change it for a while.

[Mastodon2]

rb5er said:

I disagree massively. I friend had a bronze FN2 in 2008 with the 19`s and the ride was worse than any car I have been in in my life, crashy and rock hard, just terrible. I drove it extensively and it was quick and revvy as expected with very direct if a bit lifeless steering but I much preferred my Focus ST in every single way.

I liked the interior too, great seats and a spaceage dash with integrated sat nav etc but the rest of the car was quite lacklustre.

Perhaps not surprising that FN2s with the Rage alloys are so uncommon then.

[davidcharles]

AMG01 said:

I have an FN2 with the 19" rages, yeah it's harsh but I don't find it that bad and I prefer the alloys lookswise, over the 18" standard items, everyone has an opinion etc. I have had it for approx 18 months and love the car. The interior is cracking and the seats really comfy, when I want to give it the beans its plenty fast for me. No plans to change it for a while.

...yea, not knocking the rages, they do look very nice, just make the car even more crashier than normal...horses for courses...FN2's are great value at the moment...seen some excellent cars for only £7k - £8k.