RE: Spotted: BMW M6
Discussion
Cheburator mk2 said:
So what next, perhaps Ferrari missed a trick by not giving us a 599 TDi? I mean, look at it - it is a GT and not a sports car either, yet they stuck in a stonking, high revving V12 in it. And dare I say it - the fuel consumption is worse than the M6 and the tank does not allow for a much bigger range either... According to your logic, we all must buy diesels for day today motoring and have a track toy to fill the "specialness" void... Well, I for a change like to have interesting day-to-day cars too. A diesel car, no matter how many turbos it could have, does not fall into the "interesting category" for me... A high revving NA petrol engine does, so I have a V10 M5 Touring as a do-it-all car.
Here here. I'm glad some of us actually understand the purpose of these cars 
my 535D was a good all-round family car, but it was DULL. Who cares about fuel economy when they're buying a performance car? No performance car is justifiable on a TCO basis, it's an indulgence, so why compromise? The cost of fuelling them is factored into the residual pricing.
And what's the interest in a wall of torque from 1500rpm? That's what revs are for, ask an F1, BTCC or superbike rider. I like a car that demands an effort to drive and then rewards in equal measure. My 535D would effortlessly get to 100mph, put where was the driver involvement? Where's was the V10 roar? The character? 535/635/640 - just another competent soul less eurobox. If I was driving all day as a rep makes sense, but I'm not.
The RS6 is another case in point, loads of power and torque but just completely lacking involvement when I test drove it.
Different strokes for different folks
Edited by StuH on Wednesday 12th December 15:01
steveww said:
The 6 series is not a sports car it's a Grand Tourer. In the real world the diesels make so much more sense. That low down torque makes for effortless progress and 600 miles between pumps means less time wasted standing at the pumps. So they do not do 200 mph but where are you ever going to use that other than bragging in the pub?
Uh, the performance of a road car isn't actually about top speed - well not since I was 8 and I was playing top trumps in my school lunch hour
- It's about acceleration, power delivery and character. I'm just amazed that people with such a lack of understanding and appreciation of performance cars post on Pistonheads. steveww said:
Sure it may not be an exciting drive but I have other options for that, my Radical will go round a track faster than your M6.
Radical goes round a track faster than a 5 series - who'd have guessed it? How's the radical for driving you and your mates though the alps listening to the V10 reverberate off the mountainside through the twisty flik-flaks on your drive down across France? steveww said:
The 6 series is not a sports car it's a Grand Tourer. In the real world the diesels make so much more sense. That low down torque makes for effortless progress and 600 miles between pumps means less time wasted standing at the pumps. So they do not do 200 mph but where are you ever going to use that other than bragging in the pub? Sure it may not be an exciting drive but I have other options for that, my Radical will go round a track faster than your M6.
Well..I never suggested it would be a match for a Radical!. Even my GT3 RS pair could be challenged by a full out Radical on a track. Of course the M6 is a grand tourer...that's why i bought it. It was not great on a track..I ran it for 44 laps on the Ring and on a few other tracks such as Watkins Glen. However, it was very quick on the autobahn. I have always Vmaxed my cars, and it was definitely quicker than a GT3 RS which basically managed 190MPH. The highest I got was an indicated 337,(vid below was at an indicated 330). Even allowing for speedo error is quite fast. There are of course much quicker cars, so my point was merely a personal one which was that it remains the fastest top end of any car I have owned personally.I have spent a lot of time on autobahns in my life so I guess it was relevant for me. The sound of the V10 at full clatter is quite intoxicating...7600RPM in 7th....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
Closest I've been to one of these was a drive in a 550. Utterly amazing, could imagine the 6 being a slightly more focused drive?
The looks are a strange one - hated it when I first saw them, but I've grown to like the shape. Still not a patch on the original 6, but I do think these have aged surprisingly well.
The looks are a strange one - hated it when I first saw them, but I've grown to like the shape. Still not a patch on the original 6, but I do think these have aged surprisingly well.
Each to their own of course. For me I prefer not to have one car that does it all but to have a selection that perform various roles well. 635d for Grand Touring, Radical for track days, BMW X3 3.0d for family and towing duties, Land Rover Series IIA for shooting activities; wash it inside and out with a pressure washer.
steveww said:
Each to their own of course. For me I prefer not to have one car that does it all but to have a selection that perform various roles well. 635d for Grand Touring, Radical for track days, BMW X3 3.0d for family and towing duties, Land Rover Series IIA for shooting activities; wash it inside and out with a pressure washer.
true..I have also made specialized choices. Still, the BMW was the car of choice for weekending....Tony427 said:
£1.80 per mile depreciation.
At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
You can always buy a used one if that is your prime concern. At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
I really like these M6's and think they have aged very well indeed. One my my neighbours has one and every now and again gives it a bit of stick. It sounds immense once on song - truly exotic.
These cars seem to divide opinion but the engine really is a masterpiece. Sure diesels are very competent these days and return a very 'sensible' MPG but if you're not concerned about fuel consumption the M6 is in a different league.
Sure it needs to be wound up to get the most out of it, but in my opinion that is part of the experience and thrill.
I am sure in years to come we will still be talking about this car, it has definitely got some character.
Tony427 said:
£1.80 per mile depreciation.
At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
At 200 MPH you would be doing 2MPG ?At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
At say 180, 3 miles per minute, so £8 per minute in fuel costs
So, roughly £14 per minute at 180/200MPH in just depreciation and fuel.
With a tiny fuel tank ?
Just how much time do you spend above 155 ?
All the advantages of "spine tingling roar" also add up to tiring environmental stresses when driving, an M6 is a GT car, effortless high speed cruising, like the Panamera, the Diesel has to be the sane realists way to go. In the petrol version, Hare vs Tortoise, you will arrive "faster", but later, poorer and more tired.
998420 said:
Tony427 said:
£1.80 per mile depreciation.
At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
At 200 MPH you would be doing 2MPG ?At 200mph thats £1.80 in just depreciation every 18 seconds.
Madness.
Cheers,
Tony
At say 180, 3 miles per minute, so £8 per minute in fuel costs
So, roughly £14 per minute at 180/200MPH in just depreciation and fuel.
With a tiny fuel tank ?
Just how much time do you spend above 155 ?
All the advantages of "spine tingling roar" also add up to tiring environmental stresses when driving, an M6 is a GT car, effortless high speed cruising, like the Panamera, the Diesel has to be the sane realists way to go. In the petrol version, Hare vs Tortoise, you will arrive "faster", but later, poorer and more tired.
. As for arriving more tired,I certainly much preferred the V10 to any diesel alternative. Almost be definition you do run out of road and you need to pick your location and time carefully (in my case 4am on a Sunday morning in the dry,when there are no trucks on the autobahn and not much else either).
Its not about arriving earlier - its about the journey itself.I understand the numerous faults in the E63,but the thing has tremendous character. I only sold mine because it was under utilized due to travel schedule and other cars in the garage. (This includes a Smart ForTwo diesel for around town,thus balancing off any environmental concerns
)998420 said:
At 200 MPH you would be doing 2MPG ?
At say 180, 3 miles per minute, so £8 per minute in fuel costs
So, roughly £14 per minute at 180/200MPH in just depreciation and fuel.
With a tiny fuel tank ?
Just how much time do you spend above 155 ?
All the advantages of "spine tingling roar" also add up to tiring environmental stresses when driving, an M6 is a GT car, effortless high speed cruising, like the Panamera, the Diesel has to be the sane realists way to go. In the petrol version, Hare vs Tortoise, you will arrive "faster", but later, poorer and more tired.
... And I will arrive bored out of my skull in a diesel...At say 180, 3 miles per minute, so £8 per minute in fuel costs
So, roughly £14 per minute at 180/200MPH in just depreciation and fuel.
With a tiny fuel tank ?
Just how much time do you spend above 155 ?
All the advantages of "spine tingling roar" also add up to tiring environmental stresses when driving, an M6 is a GT car, effortless high speed cruising, like the Panamera, the Diesel has to be the sane realists way to go. In the petrol version, Hare vs Tortoise, you will arrive "faster", but later, poorer and more tired.
It beggars belief...
Every time we talk about V10 powered ///M cars, there is always a bunch of numpties who chime in, all authoritative, and tell us that the equivalent diesel car is better. The simple truth is - there is no equivalent car - as the ///M cars are a completely different beast underneath - suspension, drive train and engine.
Listen, all of you BMW diesel lovers, how about you go to the Porsche forum and tell all the owners of GT3, GT2 and even TTs they made a mistake too. They should have bought the cooking 911s, or a 2S at a push.
Last but not least, yes, a diesel BMW is quicker than an ///M car in the UK. I think this picture changes somewhat in Germany - tried and tested, so to speak...
Cheburator mk2 said:
... And I will arrive bored out of my skull in a diesel...
It beggars belief...
Every time we talk about V10 powered ///M cars, there is always a bunch of numpties who chime in, all authoritative, and tell us that the equivalent diesel car is better. The simple truth is - there is no equivalent car - as the ///M cars are a completely different beast underneath - suspension, drive train and engine.
Listen, all of you BMW diesel lovers, how about you go to the Porsche forum and tell all the owners of GT3, GT2 and even TTs they made a mistake too. They should have bought the cooking 911s, or a 2S at a push.
Last but not least, yes, a diesel BMW is quicker than an ///M car in the UK. I think this picture changes somewhat in Germany - tried and tested, so to speak...
^^^^ This to be honest. Yes diesels have a time and a place but we aren't talking about some soulless mile muncher on this thread, we are talking about a car with a screaming V10 in it, the likes of which will probably not be seen again. Is it perfect? No not by a long chalk but I'd take the V10 over a tractor engine any day of the week so I wish all the diesel fans would go and start there own thread and discuss mpg and particulate filters or something while the real men discuss this //M masterpiece.It beggars belief...
Every time we talk about V10 powered ///M cars, there is always a bunch of numpties who chime in, all authoritative, and tell us that the equivalent diesel car is better. The simple truth is - there is no equivalent car - as the ///M cars are a completely different beast underneath - suspension, drive train and engine.
Listen, all of you BMW diesel lovers, how about you go to the Porsche forum and tell all the owners of GT3, GT2 and even TTs they made a mistake too. They should have bought the cooking 911s, or a 2S at a push.
Last but not least, yes, a diesel BMW is quicker than an ///M car in the UK. I think this picture changes somewhat in Germany - tried and tested, so to speak...
"Fastest" is meaningless without context - which varies from person to person.
I think the reason diesels keep coming up when people talk about big-power saloons is that in real terms, for what most people use them for, they are actually comparable tools - they deliver that massive push-in-the-back when you give them beans - they cruise at high speeds well etc. etc.
Reality is that "M" means "top of the range" and most people choose it for that - not for it's "Motorsport" connotations (let's be honest, the last few M3s and M5s have nothing whatsoever to do with motorsport anyway).
When you start taking away manual gearboxes you're even saying "and people who enjoy driving aren't our target market either" - paddles are great for lazy driving (and circuits if it's a super-fast dual clutch perhaps) but everywhere else you'd take a 3rd pedal and a stick for the 'driver' experience.
I agree it's tiresome when people say "oh but this does more MPG and is as fast in a straight line" - but some people are making out that the M5 is some lithe sportscar which can't be compared to a diesel and - errrr - it's far from that
The Petrol option is almost a "I can afford it" badge on the boot - if you really care about performance, your first issue with the M5 would be it's sheer size anyway
I think the reason diesels keep coming up when people talk about big-power saloons is that in real terms, for what most people use them for, they are actually comparable tools - they deliver that massive push-in-the-back when you give them beans - they cruise at high speeds well etc. etc.
Reality is that "M" means "top of the range" and most people choose it for that - not for it's "Motorsport" connotations (let's be honest, the last few M3s and M5s have nothing whatsoever to do with motorsport anyway).
When you start taking away manual gearboxes you're even saying "and people who enjoy driving aren't our target market either" - paddles are great for lazy driving (and circuits if it's a super-fast dual clutch perhaps) but everywhere else you'd take a 3rd pedal and a stick for the 'driver' experience.
I agree it's tiresome when people say "oh but this does more MPG and is as fast in a straight line" - but some people are making out that the M5 is some lithe sportscar which can't be compared to a diesel and - errrr - it's far from that
The Petrol option is almost a "I can afford it" badge on the boot - if you really care about performance, your first issue with the M5 would be it's sheer size anyway
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