RE: Jaguar C-X75 cancelled

RE: Jaguar C-X75 cancelled

Author
Discussion

PascalBuyens

2,868 posts

283 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
crofty1984 said:
snaelro said:
it is not a surprise. from the beginning it was making no sense. especially when in parallel they announce to go down market with a 3 series
jaguar was simply too arrogant and selfconfident when they announced the production of this car.

they don't have the image of ferrari or porsche and they have never produced a true sportscar, only some sort of muscle car with big v8 and auto box only able to drift and smoke their tyres.
Apart from the C,D, and E-Type.
And the XJ220.
And the Group C racers...

Sad to see this will end up as yet another of those concept cars that will never see the light frownfrownfrown

CraigyMc

16,423 posts

237 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
PascalBuyens said:
crofty1984 said:
snaelro said:
it is not a surprise. from the beginning it was making no sense. especially when in parallel they announce to go down market with a 3 series
jaguar was simply too arrogant and selfconfident when they announced the production of this car.

they don't have the image of ferrari or porsche and they have never produced a true sportscar, only some sort of muscle car with big v8 and auto box only able to drift and smoke their tyres.
Apart from the C,D, and E-Type.
And the XJ220.
And the Group C racers...

Sad to see this will end up as yet another of those concept cars that will never see the light frownfrownfrown
The silk cut jags were "jaguars" in some respects, but they were more TWR vehicles than Jag ones.

The mag "Motorsport" this month has a story about the XJR-14, which totally dominated the 1991 World Sportscar Championship, then went on to be a rebadged as a Mazda, then later on rebadged again as a pair of porsches (WSC-95) which won the 24h du mans outright, in 1996 and 1997.

C

chevronb37

6,471 posts

187 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
PascalBuyens said:
crofty1984 said:
snaelro said:
it is not a surprise. from the beginning it was making no sense. especially when in parallel they announce to go down market with a 3 series
jaguar was simply too arrogant and selfconfident when they announced the production of this car.

they don't have the image of ferrari or porsche and they have never produced a true sportscar, only some sort of muscle car with big v8 and auto box only able to drift and smoke their tyres.
Apart from the C,D, and E-Type.
And the XJ220.
And the Group C racers...

Sad to see this will end up as yet another of those concept cars that will never see the light frownfrownfrown
The silk cut jags were "jaguars" in some respects, but they were more TWR vehicles than Jag ones.

The mag "Motorsport" this month has a story about the XJR-14, which totally dominated the 1991 World Sportscar Championship, then went on to be a rebadged as a Mazda, then later on rebadged again as a pair of porsches (WSC-95) which won the 24h du mans outright, in 1996 and 1997.

C
I think "rebadge" is over-simplifying it. I haven't read the article but my rudimentary knowledge of the atmo Group C period suggests that the Mazda took a Judd engine and the Joest WSC95 was pretty much just the monocoque. It wasn't a ground effect car, it had a turbocharged Porsche engine and it was open-topped.

In terms of the Group C cars, the pre-atmo cars were much closer to Jaguar. The V12 cars shared their block with the road cars and the V6 cars ditto.

Mavican

135 posts

165 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
Bet Williams are chewing at the cancellation, as a showcase for their energy recovery systems, it would've helped get more orders elsewhere. The only other place for them was the Porsche GT3 RSR hybrid at the N24.

Oh well, would've been well worth a look, with so much want!

robinessex

11,062 posts

182 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
The 3 of the 5 prototypes to be auctioned off. Are they running vehicles, or just to be used as art objects? And what would be the possibility of converting them to a straight forward engine/transmission installation to get them road worthy and driveable?

NRS

22,195 posts

202 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
snaelro said:
crofty1984 said:
Apart from the C,D, and E-Type.
And the XJ220.
that was more than 20 years ago...
brakes, engine, gear boxes, chassis, electronic, ett have evolved quite a bit since then...the CX75 had carbon chassis, dual clutch gearbox, hybrid system, active aero, high capacity engine, things that jaguar has never done before

JLR is simply making a lot of noise to create interest.
only LR is doing quite well commercially. and even them are living on ford investment (evoque, alumnium chassis from XJ for the range, XK chassis for the f-type, engines...)

new engine factory in UK, new factory in saudi arabia, new factory in china, new assembly line in india, new design studio in USA and china, new factory for the CX75, tenths of new cars for the next 4 years, thousands of new employees...it just sounds to good to be true.
Yes, but you said they had never done it, not that they hadn't done it recently. You are actually kidding about the commercial aspect?! Ford was more likely to kill them than save them.

sad61t

1,100 posts

211 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
andrewrob said:
CraigyMc said:
Give him a break, he's ony 12.

C
My son is 6 and even he knows thata D type, E type and XJ220 is.
Maybe Craig was using number base 3, so (1*3)+(2*1) = 510 = 123? A five year old could be forgiven for not knowing about Jaguar's racing history.

cathalm

606 posts

245 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
For those wondering about the noise of the jets in the original concept or melting the back of the car, take a look at the Chrysler turbine car from the 60's. That car was almost completely silent and the idea that a turbine would melt the car is a bit silly and doesn't really reflect how the turbines would work. Check out Jay Lenos garage, he has a video on the Chrysler turbine, a car that worked just fine. It's quite informative on the actual workings of the turbine. In a car application a heat exchanger would be used to draw the heat back into the induction loop and help heat the air to required temps. Wouldn't actually come out of the pipes with flames and such...

CraigyMc

16,423 posts

237 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
cathalm said:
For those wondering about the noise of the jets in the original concept or melting the back of the car, take a look at the Chrysler turbine car from the 60's. That car was almost completely silent and the idea that a turbine would melt the car is a bit silly and doesn't really reflect how the turbines would work. Check out Jay Lenos garage, he has a video on the Chrysler turbine, a car that worked just fine. It's quite informative on the actual workings of the turbine. In a car application a heat exchanger would be used to draw the heat back into the induction loop and help heat the air to required temps. Wouldn't actually come out of the pipes with flames and such...
The current American main battle tank as been running a pair of turbines as a powerpack for years and they don't melt anything.

C

MonkeySpanker

319 posts

138 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
snaelro said:
JLR is simply making a lot of noise to create interest.
only LR is doing quite well commercially. and even them are living on ford investment (evoque, alumnium chassis from XJ for the range, XK chassis for the f-type, engines...)

new engine factory in UK, new factory in saudi arabia, new factory in china, new assembly line in india, new design studio in USA and china, new factory for the CX75, tenths of new cars for the next 4 years, thousands of new employees...it just sounds to good to be true.
JLR hasn't lived on Ford handouts but has had a few 'leftovers' from previous models. The Evoque has no Ford investment apart from using Halewood (ex Ford plant also built the Jag X-type) & about 10% of an old Ford platform & an Ecoboost petrol engine. The all new Range Rover (L405) had no input/investment from Ford. As for plants in Saudi, China, India & the UK I think it's called 'investing in the future' something that neither Ford, BMW, Rover or any previous owner had been able to do.
JLR is owned by TATA, get over it. TATA has invested heavily & expects a return on the investment & so far is being rewarded with increased sales & profits from JLR. Cars made in India or China will not be sold in the UK & will be tailored to that market. There's no 'Bangla Bangers' Jaguar or Land Rover.
You complain that Jaguar hasn't made a 'sports car' in 20 years then whinge about using new technology & creating interest & excitement in products. C-X75 was a concept, the original turbine engines were found to not be practical in a production car so were dropped for something that worked. It's a shame that it wasn't to be but it's not the first or last time that a company has backed down from production. The technology & knowledge gained will be used in future products. All companies use cross platform technology, it keeps costs down.


JonnyVTEC

3,006 posts

176 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
The car that has just been canned was never the gas turbine powerplant anyway. It was the 1.6 high power 4 pot petrol engine.

jpf

1,312 posts

277 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
Should have been built with a proper motor and a manual transmission priced below a Carrera.

Ferrari would have been sweating big time.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

275 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
cathalm said:
For those wondering about the noise of the jets in the original concept or melting the back of the car, take a look at the Chrysler turbine car from the 60's. That car was almost completely silent and the idea that a turbine would melt the car is a bit silly and doesn't really reflect how the turbines would work. Check out Jay Lenos garage, he has a video on the Chrysler turbine, a car that worked just fine. It's quite informative on the actual workings of the turbine. In a car application a heat exchanger would be used to draw the heat back into the induction loop and help heat the air to required temps. Wouldn't actually come out of the pipes with flames and such...
The current American main battle tank as been running a pair of turbines as a powerpack for years and they don't melt anything.

C
no, but they do have major problems with blade wear/damage from crap getting past air filters

snaelro

88 posts

156 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
MonkeySpanker said:
JLR hasn't lived on Ford handouts but has had a few 'leftovers' from previous models. The Evoque has no Ford investment apart from using Halewood (ex Ford plant also built the Jag X-type) & about 10% of an old Ford platform & an Ecoboost petrol engine. The all new Range Rover (L405) had no input/investment from Ford. As for plants in Saudi, China, India & the UK I think it's called 'investing in the future' something that neither Ford, BMW, Rover or any previous owner had been able to do.
JLR is owned by TATA, get over it. TATA has invested heavily & expects a return on the investment & so far is being rewarded with increased sales & profits from JLR. Cars made in India or China will not be sold in the UK & will be tailored to that market. There's no 'Bangla Bangers' Jaguar or Land Rover.
You complain that Jaguar hasn't made a 'sports car' in 20 years then whinge about using new technology & creating interest & excitement in products. C-X75 was a concept, the original turbine engines were found to not be practical in a production car so were dropped for something that worked. It's a shame that it wasn't to be but it's not the first or last time that a company has backed down from production. The technology & knowledge gained will be used in future products. All companies use cross platform technology, it keeps costs down.
the turbines only existed as prototype. again, put in the concept to make people talk.
and the hybrid inline 4 wasn't working either. actually, they announced working with cosworth in the beginning, only to stop mentionning it few months later.

JLR is living on what ford left them : the evoque and XJ were developped and planned under ford ownership. it is actually ford that wanted an evoque, whereas LR didn't believed in it in the beginning.
they then reused the XJ platform to build the RR. off course, they did a good job, but in a way, it's ford that put them on track.
the F-type would have never seen the day of light without an XK plateform, done by ford and to be fair the will of Tata.
now we need to see how they evolve.

as for TATA, it sounds like a huge group, but tata motor, that owns JLR is rather small. I think they even produce less cars than JLR.
and they already suffered a lot when they had to inject money in 2008 to save the company.
LR is doing quite well, but Jaguar is far from being on a roll.


RacerMike

4,211 posts

212 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
snaelro said:
they then reused the XJ platform to build the RR. off course, they did a good job, but in a way, it's ford that put them on track.
The Range Rover is not based on the XJ platform at all! It uses similar aluminium technology, but it's an all new platform.

Chrisw26

105 posts

152 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all

V8Bart

788 posts

191 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
Did they take money from all the orders they took for this? I knew a man who in theory on the order list.

sisu

2,584 posts

174 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
well i would rather they ditch a concept. Not the first car or prototype with jet propulsion but who would have thought a Jag mgmt thinking about the future than just squinting at an e-type poster

herebebeasties

671 posts

220 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
jpf said:
Should have been built with a proper motor and a manual transmission priced below a Carrera.

Ferrari would have been sweating big time.
Because obviously Ferrari's model range is concentrated in the "priced below a Carrera" part of the market. rolleyes

NRS

22,195 posts

202 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
snaelro said:
they then reused the XJ platform to build the RR. off course, they did a good job, but in a way, it's ford that put them on track.
The Range Rover is not based on the XJ platform at all! It uses similar aluminium technology, but it's an all new platform.
I'm trying to work out if this person is a troll, has no idea about stuff, or just has a very strange view of the world!