RE: And the S2000 is coming back too!

[Guvernator]

kambites said:

The gearbox is impressive, but a bit clinical for my tastes.

What, you mean it works properly?

[kambites]

Guvernator said:

kambites said:

The gearbox is impressive, but a bit clinical for my tastes.

What, you mean it works properly?

It's too smooth - not enough feel of what's going on inside through the lever. I know lots of people like that though.

[TWPC]

RemarkLima said:

Jurgen said:

HokumPokum said:

can someone opine on the electric steering?

has it been updated since it was produced? It feels lifeless to me.

It is pretty lifeless unfortunately, like most EPS systems. Tyres and geo settings do make a difference, but it will still be electric. You do get used to it after a while, but a good hydraulic system will definatly be better!

That's what always put me off them, love the idea other than that and has all the ingredients to make it happen otherwise.

Best news all day!

It was the most exciting car I've owned by a long way, though I concede that's not saying much.

Regarding the steering, the S2000 was one of the first cars launched with an electric system and in the 13 years since then there has been some (!) progress. You would hope that Honda could come up with something closer to the standards of electric systems in the Focus, new Boxster or Merc CLS. It is probably too much to hope that they switch to hydraulic.

Some have mentioned it, but in addition to the gearchange, I thought the ergonomics of the rest of the cockpit were fantastic with everything grouped so closely round the instrument binnacle and nothing superfluous there. I loved the way the rev counter flashed as you approached 9000rpm and also the feeling of solidity it had, roof up or down.

Hopefully Honda has a large enough range that there is no need for the S2000 to contribute meaningfully to a reduction in the overall Honda CO2 count so they could use a NA engine. If they are worried about emissions, would they consider the lower power/lower weight approach? In all honesty I don't think it needs to be faster than the original, but may need renaming the S1800...?

I guess the last thoughts are unrealistic: would anything smaller than the original sell in the US?

[Mastodon2]

If this ever happens, it won't be a VTEC as we know it, bye bye 9000rpm, hello turbocharged efficiency.

[alock]

Red 4 said:

On the downside they can be quite tiring to drive; you'll be up and down the gearbox to compensate for lack of torque.

I disagree with this. Their torque is comparable to most 2.0 litre NA engines and they only weigh 1200kg. Additionally, due to their high rev limit, they run much lower gearing than most other cars. You have an effective multiplier of about x2 when comparing to diesels and x1.5 when comparing to other petrols just because it's geared for ~160mph at 9000rpm in 6th.

When driving around town or just following other traffic, I change gear far more often when driving my wife's VAG diesel than I do in the S2000. In the S2000, 6th gear is fine from 30mph upwards, in the diesel I'm constantly changing between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th.

[kambites]

The lack of torque is something of a myth. The car is plenty quick enough at low revs to keep up with traffic under normal driving conditions, and having to rev that engine when you want to make progress is not a bad thing.

[Black S2K]

HokumPokum said:

can someone opine on the electric steering?

has it been updated since it was produced? It feels lifeless to me.

A set of upper & lower chassis braces improves it immensely & allows one to feel the impending breakaway. One at the back also helps there, too.

I'd say like that, the steering is about the same/slightly better than a GT86.

It's quite amazing the subtle, yet important difference it makes.

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

It's too smooth - not enough feel of what's going on inside through the lever. I know lots of people like that though.

For those moments you don't want to change from 3rd to 4th and instead mid range the shift somewhere around gear 3.7?

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

It's too smooth - not enough feel of what's going on inside through the lever. I know lots of people like that though.

For those moments you don't want to change from 3rd to 4th and instead mid range the shift somewhere around gear 3.7?

Um, what? How can you have a fraction of a gear?

[JonnyVTEC]

Indeed, so why would a driver need to feel syncro cones speed matching prior to dog teeth engagement through a gear selection lever - which i understand thats the only thing your point about gearlever feel could be refering to?

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

Indeed, so why would a driver need to feel syncro cones speed matching prior to dog teeth engagement through a gear selection lever - which i understand thats the only thing your point about gearlever feel could be refering to?

The driver doesn't really need to feel anything at all, it would be perfectly possible to drive a car which gave the driver no feedback whatsoever through any of the controls. Some of us want to, though.

[entropy]

When it originally came out it was in a league of its own. Cheaper than German equivalents (Sub £30k) and more performance than MX5

Performance wise it will be up against the BMW 135, not to mention FWD hot hatches can now handle 300bhp.

Not sure it will do well. Performance and pricing will be key not to mention marketing/generating interest eg. GT86 having its own identity ie. enthusiasts' car.

[Red 4]

alock said:

I disagree with this. Their torque is comparable to most 2.0 litre NA engines and they only weigh 1200kg.

When driving around town or just following other traffic, I change gear far more often when driving my wife's VAG diesel than I do in the S2000. In the S2000, 6th gear is fine from 30mph upwards, in the diesel I'm constantly changing between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th.

Not my experience and I owned 2 x S2000's

Perhaps we have a different driving style.

The torque (or lack of) didn't bother me but you get an awful lot of mechanical noise/ drag driving the car as you describe which can't be good for the drivetrain.

6th gear at 30 mph ? No thanks.

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

The driver doesn't really need to feel anything at all, it would be perfectly possible to drive a car which gave the driver no feedback whatsoever through any of the controls. Some of us want to, though.

Seriously.... through the gearbox. Its the only part of an S2000 that I've never seen criticised..... until now!

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

The driver doesn't really need to feel anything at all, it would be perfectly possible to drive a car which gave the driver no feedback whatsoever through any of the controls. Some of us want to, though.

Seriously.... through the gearbox. Its the only part of an S2000 that I've never seen criticised..... until now!

Fair enough. As I said, each to their own.

I'm fully aware that I have odd tastes.

[RemarkLima]

Red 4 said:

alock said:

I disagree with this. Their torque is comparable to most 2.0 litre NA engines and they only weigh 1200kg.

When driving around town or just following other traffic, I change gear far more often when driving my wife's VAG diesel than I do in the S2000. In the S2000, 6th gear is fine from 30mph upwards, in the diesel I'm constantly changing between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th.

Not my experience and I owned 2 x S2000's

Perhaps we have a different driving style.

The torque (or lack of) didn't bother me but you get an awful lot of mechanical noise/ drag driving the car as you describe which can't be good for the drivetrain.

6th gear at 30 mph ? No thanks.

Sure that's the point of V-TEC (yo!), a normal cam for lower end, and a wilder cam for the higher end power when the revs rise - so with that in mind, anything below the V-TEC (yo!) engagment will operate exactly as any short stroke 2.0 NA petrol engine.

I'm assuming it's short stroke to get those revs, and hence the lack of torque compared to a 2.0 german long stroke lump of the same capacity, but it would be minimal.

[snorkel sucker]

kambites said:

JonnyVTEC said:

Indeed, so why would a driver need to feel syncro cones speed matching prior to dog teeth engagement through a gear selection lever - which i understand thats the only thing your point about gearlever feel could be refering to?

The driver doesn't really need to feel anything at all, it would be perfectly possible to drive a car which gave the driver no feedback whatsoever through any of the controls. Some of us want to, though.

Interesting comment r.e. the gearchange Kambites. I always found the S2000 change to be the most superior in comparison to both the EP3 Civic Type R and the DC2 Integra I owned before/after my S2000.

Granted, it was back in 2006 when I owned all three of them but I recall the S2000 shift having more of a "clack" and gritty feel than (what I considered an amazing gearchange at the time) the EP3. The DC2 was somewhere in between. I'm not sure whether that is the best way of describing "feel" but it certainly gave the most feedback.

All 3 are certainly up there with the best (I have experienced) though...

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

Fair enough. As I said, each to their own.

The clutch maybe but the gear selection, 'too smooth' is verging on comical. Is that what arguing for the sake of it results in

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

Fair enough. As I said, each to their own.

The clutch maybe but the gear selection, 'too smooth' is verging on comical. Is that what arguing for the sake of it results in

Dunno. I wasn't arguing, just stating an opinion.

Although I appreciate that seems to be fast becoming illegal on PH unless it's the same opinion as everyone else has, though.

[Guvernator]

kambites said:

having to rev that engine when you want to make progress is not a bad thing.

You'd think so wouldn't you but apparently it is. Manufacturers would have you believe it is as they now all seem obsessed with making every car feel like a diesel so it must be what the market\consumers want. Surprisingly I've even heard many a PH'er moan about how difficult some cars are to drive and that they feel gutless at low revs so their really is no hope tbh.