RE: PH Fleet: Renaultsport Megane 265 Cup
Discussion
framerateuk said:
MiseryStreak said:
How's the Renault Vel Satis engine in your Zed working out? 
Common mistake, the Z's engine is a Nissan engine, regardless of what Clarkson has said on Top Gear 
Incidentally I owned a 182 for two years and 30 odd thousand miles. I took it on numerous track days and nothing went wrong other than the interior motion alarms going off before I learned how to turn the sensitivity down. It was a Trophy though so clearly made out of finer stuff than the boggo models, maybe he just had a s
t one? A client of mine just 'gave' his V12 Vantage back to Aston Martin at a huge loss because he was sick of it breaking down and bits falling off it.Badge snobbery is f
kwittery in my opinion. I do hate Vauxhalls though, but would never say that on a public forum.MarkRSi said:
Dblue said:
Actually surprised when I had a play with the BM configufrator at how little you really have to add.
Without adding some expensive options that you simply can't get on a Renault I reckon its around the £32k mark so still at least £5k more.
But in terms of leasing cost I would expect the BMW to maybe be cheaper owing to hugely better retained values
Perhaps, but a few minutes on Google shows lease prices for the 135i to be around £400-420 and Megane round £300-320 (both excluding VAT). Which means the retained value argument is not true and/or someone is raking it in. Obviously there's lots of factors in leasing so happy to be proved wrong if someone can find different prices...Without adding some expensive options that you simply can't get on a Renault I reckon its around the £32k mark so still at least £5k more.
But in terms of leasing cost I would expect the BMW to maybe be cheaper owing to hugely better retained values
But I love the Renault, would still choose it over the facially challenged M135i
MiseryStreak said:
It's not a mistake, I'm aware of the fact that Nissan produce the engine used in the Espace and Vel Satis. I was merely making a cheap dig relating to the strategic partnership of the two manufacturers in light of his slightly bizarre badge snobbery. Judging by his username and the quality of his posts I would wager TameRacingDriver takes more head from what Top Gear says than I do.
Badge snobbery is fkwittery in my opinion. I do hate Vauxhalls though, but would never say that on a public forum.
Badge snobbery is f
kwittery in my opinion. I do hate Vauxhalls though, but would never say that on a public forum.
Badge snobbery, that's why I bought a Datsun and not a Porsche then?!f
kwit indeed.Dblue said:
MarkRSi said:
Dblue said:
Actually surprised when I had a play with the BM configufrator at how little you really have to add.
Without adding some expensive options that you simply can't get on a Renault I reckon its around the £32k mark so still at least £5k more.
But in terms of leasing cost I would expect the BMW to maybe be cheaper owing to hugely better retained values
Perhaps, but a few minutes on Google shows lease prices for the 135i to be around £400-420 and Megane round £300-320 (both excluding VAT). Which means the retained value argument is not true and/or someone is raking it in. Obviously there's lots of factors in leasing so happy to be proved wrong if someone can find different prices...Without adding some expensive options that you simply can't get on a Renault I reckon its around the £32k mark so still at least £5k more.
But in terms of leasing cost I would expect the BMW to maybe be cheaper owing to hugely better retained values
But I love the Renault, would still choose it over the facially challenged M135i
Don't agree with the Monitor being a must have - motoring equivalent of an 80's stereo graphic equaliser in my opinion and will only appeal to a certain type of person. Much rather have the Nav or nothing at all in a car that's going to be an everyday commuter for 3 years. One extra that has proved handy is the keyless entry - very convenient for everyday use and saves the embarrassment of having to get that God awful key card out of your pocket!!!
AA121 said:
Just taken my Cup with Stop/Start (stop/start does make a difference to the monthly payment and C02 tax bracket) and about £4k worth of extras on a business contract hire at a £1600 deposit and £270 per month over 3 years at 10k per year. Plus VAT but 50% reclaimable.
Don't agree with the Monitor being a must have - motoring equivalent of an 80's stereo graphic equaliser in my opinion and will only appeal to a certain type of person. Much rather have the Nav or nothing at all in a car that's going to be an everyday commuter for 3 years. One extra that has proved handy is the keyless entry - very convenient for everyday use and saves the embarrassment of having to get that God awful key card out of your pocket!!!
Do you have Monitor though? Are you aware that you can change the throttle maps through it? Don't agree with the Monitor being a must have - motoring equivalent of an 80's stereo graphic equaliser in my opinion and will only appeal to a certain type of person. Much rather have the Nav or nothing at all in a car that's going to be an everyday commuter for 3 years. One extra that has proved handy is the keyless entry - very convenient for everyday use and saves the embarrassment of having to get that God awful key card out of your pocket!!!
I use it it rarely and its undeniably gimmicky but that is useful as is the Oil temp information.
The quality of the stereo is poor though as is the lack of a decent Nav/Comms interface, and why does have to always revert to level 15 volume every time you turn the ignition off.
V8 Armchair said:
Seriously thinking of one as my next car (I'm just fed up the e34 V8 money pit), seems like one of the best driver's cars around below 40k, especially as they are 0% apr ATM.
Is the 0% APR (on HP?) a regular thing from Renault? They were offering the same rate earlier this year...MarkRSi said:
V8 Armchair said:
Seriously thinking of one as my next car (I'm just fed up the e34 V8 money pit), seems like one of the best driver's cars around below 40k, especially as they are 0% apr ATM.
Is the 0% APR (on HP?) a regular thing from Renault? They were offering the same rate earlier this year...4+ Package standard so 4 years servicing, 4 years warranty (100k miles) and 4 years breakdown cover.
HTP99 said:
I love the way any topic that involves Renault always end up in a "Renault are st" bashing fest...
t" bashing fest... If this was a 265hp fwd Ford this would have turned into a massive argument about how it would spend the whole time torquesteering in to a hedge.
If it was a Vauxhall, the brand image would be under scrutiny.
Renaults don't get this, but instead their quality gets discussed.
PH likes its stereotypes nice and consistent.
Dblue said:
Do you have Monitor though? Are you aware that you can change the throttle maps through it?
I use it it rarely and its undeniably gimmicky but that is useful as is the Oil temp information.
The quality of the stereo is poor though as is the lack of a decent Nav/Comms interface, and why does have to always revert to level 15 volume every time you turn the ignition off.
The TomTom Live sat nav system is one of the best I have used and you can plug an iPod straight into the front of stereo system. I use it it rarely and its undeniably gimmicky but that is useful as is the Oil temp information.
The quality of the stereo is poor though as is the lack of a decent Nav/Comms interface, and why does have to always revert to level 15 volume every time you turn the ignition off.
CarlT said:
Dblue said:
Do you have Monitor though? Are you aware that you can change the throttle maps through it?
I use it it rarely and its undeniably gimmicky but that is useful as is the Oil temp information.
The quality of the stereo is poor though as is the lack of a decent Nav/Comms interface, and why does have to always revert to level 15 volume every time you turn the ignition off.
The TomTom Live sat nav system is one of the best I have used and you can plug an iPod straight into the front of stereo system. I use it it rarely and its undeniably gimmicky but that is useful as is the Oil temp information.
The quality of the stereo is poor though as is the lack of a decent Nav/Comms interface, and why does have to always revert to level 15 volume every time you turn the ignition off.
nickfrog said:
Have you read the thread at all ? This has been debunked already. The M135i is £30K with leather and xenons before discounts similar(ish) to the Renault's.
There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
With this close gap in mind... Has anyone driven a Megane 250/265 Cup and an M135i over the same B Roads? If so, which would you take the keys to for a B Road jolly, and what do you feel to be the difference?There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
I wouldn't end up tracking an asset worth that much, so I'm more interested in how they are as Road Toys than Track Weapons. Anyone care to comment?
framerateuk said:
I would say the monitor is a must. Why would you want to pay all that for a car and loose out on the throttle adjustment features?
I personally wouldn't bother with the 19" Bridgestones. The PS2s are fantastic in the dry and wet. The 19s will cost more to replace and the ride will be harder. Each to their own though, they do fill the arches more, but I prefer the look of the 18" Cup wheel too.
I use throttle mapping day to day and extreme on track. The fact that you can deactivate ESP and get the same ESP setting would give me little benefit except throttle mapping. Those wanting greater stability would benefit by being able to select a lower sport setting but then the will suffer greater braking through ESP so will have greater brake fade and wear.I personally wouldn't bother with the 19" Bridgestones. The PS2s are fantastic in the dry and wet. The 19s will cost more to replace and the ride will be harder. Each to their own though, they do fill the arches more, but I prefer the look of the 18" Cup wheel too.
Hence imo, is not essential as the other options.
Can't say I have used PS2s but the 172 & 182 ran PE2s but I prefer the conti 5s on my 200 if I'm honest to the PE2 which were superseeded by PS iirc
The bridgestones aren't that bad in price if you shop about, I got 6k out of mine & 3 track days this year and I got new ones fitted for just under £200 a corner via a main dealer.
But then again anyone who buys this type of car and bemoans any form of expense be it insurance, tax, petrol etc didn't buy the correct car from day 1.
Edited by Mentalpen on Tuesday 18th December 22:43
Mentalpen said:
I use throttle mapping day to day and extreme on track. The fact that you can deactivate ESP and get the same ESP setting would give me little benefit except throttle mapping. Those wanting greater stability would benefit by being able to select a lower sport setting but then the will suffer greater braking through ESP so will have greater brake fade and wear.
Hence imo, is not essential as the other options.
Can't say I have used PS2s but the 172 & 182 ran PE2s but I prefer the conti 5s on my 200 if I'm honest to the PE2 which were superseeded by PS iirc
The bridgestones aren't that bad in price if you shop about, I got 6k out of mine & 3 track days this year and I got new ones fitted for just under £200 a corner via a main dealer.
But then again anyone who buys this type of car and bemoans any form of expense be it insurance, tax, petrol etc didn't buy the correct car from day 1.
The PS2 are fantastic tyres, a step up from the PE's they replaced.Hence imo, is not essential as the other options.
Can't say I have used PS2s but the 172 & 182 ran PE2s but I prefer the conti 5s on my 200 if I'm honest to the PE2 which were superseeded by PS iirc
The bridgestones aren't that bad in price if you shop about, I got 6k out of mine & 3 track days this year and I got new ones fitted for just under £200 a corner via a main dealer.
But then again anyone who buys this type of car and bemoans any form of expense be it insurance, tax, petrol etc didn't buy the correct car from day 1.
Edited by Mentalpen on Tuesday 18th December 22:43
That said, I'm using Eagle F1's at the moment as I prefer their wet weather grip.
I don't understand anything of what you said regarding the monitor!
The standard non-sport setting is the same as the RSMonitor's "Progressive" setting. This is great for sitting in traffic, but it doesn't have the urgency of the other settings. I prefer to hit the sport button and have the "Linear" setting for fast road and track, Sport and Extreme are just too jumpy, and while they might be advantageous off the line, I find you get more control with linear as you get to use the whole pedal motion.
The monitor has no effect on ESP or braking. If you've got the sport button engaged, the ESP is set to allow some slip before kicking in. If you're on a track you'll generally have that off anyway. The throttle map you choose on the monitor gets used on Sport mode regardless of if ESP is on or off.
If you haven't got the monitor then you loose out on the Linear and Extreme maps. Lots of guys who track their Meganes swear by the linear mode, so without the monitor you'd definitely loose out.
blearyeyedboy said:
nickfrog said:
Have you read the thread at all ? This has been debunked already. The M135i is £30K with leather and xenons before discounts similar(ish) to the Renault's.
There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
With this close gap in mind... Has anyone driven a Megane 250/265 Cup and an M135i over the same B Roads? If so, which would you take the keys to for a B Road jolly, and what do you feel to be the difference?There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
I wouldn't end up tracking an asset worth that much, so I'm more interested in how they are as Road Toys than Track Weapons. Anyone care to comment?
HTP99 said:
I have been told by a couple of 230 and 250 customers that 230's generally are pushing out 250 and 250's are generally pushing out 275.
One of the car mags tested the Foucus RS and the 250 back to back and they found the 250 was running at 275 and the Focus was running significantly less than the quoted 300 horses at around 280.
They don't. My 230 R26 was 222 on the dyno (but only 1000 miles, so not loosened up yet), and usually dyno'd cars are about at the claimed output, if a little less. Renaultsport forums back this up..One of the car mags tested the Foucus RS and the 250 back to back and they found the 250 was running at 275 and the Focus was running significantly less than the quoted 300 horses at around 280.
Got to £35k exactly with the beemer, and just over £30k with the megane, or £27 if i sacrifice a few things that would annoy me (no automatic lights/wipers, no all-round sensors, etc). Aiming to driver the 1M, M135 and Megane Cup this summer to decide..
nickfrog said:
Have you read the thread at all ? This has been debunked already. The M135i is £30K with leather and xenons before discounts similar(ish) to the Renault's.
There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
Range for two "reasonable" specs is between £3.5k and 8k i've found - a gap, but when you take into account residuals definitely enough to make you think, I agree (as i am doing now!). There is NO obligation to spend £37K on one, just £27,900 with £1k worth of extras after discount.
There is still a gap, but it's small enough to make anyone think REALLY hard.
For me - the single biggest factor against the BMW is the lack of "specialness". Now I know my min-spec is just under £35k, i think the most likely choice for me personally is a used 1M - but I have the previous model Megane R26 and love it, so the new one needs a careful look too. Without the two BMW options my choice would have been much easier!
cidered77 said:
For me - the single biggest factor against the BMW is the lack of "specialness".
Surely the single biggest factor against the BMW is having to look at it every day? I suppose you could develop a method for getting into it without looking at it, maybe even use some special pinhole glasses so you can just see the doorhandle but nothing else. Then once in, you're safe to enjoy some 'cheap' RWD fun without having to be sick out of your eyes.MiseryStreak said:
Surely the single biggest factor against the BMW is having to look at it every day? I suppose you could develop a method for getting into it without looking at it, maybe even use some special pinhole glasses so you can just see the doorhandle but nothing else. Then once in, you're safe to enjoy some 'cheap' RWD fun without having to be sick out of your eyes.
yep, it's an ugly, ugly thing - but personally, never really been bothered much about form. by "specialness", i mean the knowledge that you're not in the best, most focused version of the car you could be - no diff for example; the knowledge that the 1M is out there are there might be a 1M replacement in a few years. I showed the missus pictures of the Megane Cup ("yeah - could drive that, doesnt look as horrible as your current one), the M135i ("that's better -and i prefer an automatic"), and the 1M last night ("no way - it looks chavy"). go figure!
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