RE: PH Blog: putting the hype into hypercars
Discussion
benzpassion said:
... I'm afraid Mr Chris Harris is firmly co-opted into the spin for JLR camp, with this rather shameful article. Shameful in that one would expect far more objectivity from Mr Harris.
The article reads remarkably like the same "Operation Damage Limitation from C-X75 cancellation" piece from Mr Steve Davies of Skiddmark.com, posted last night, which again sought to portray, let's be blunt, blatantly spin for Jaguar this story:
One could say Chris's piece reads like the tabloid version of Steve Davies' rather pompous, longwinded 'broadsheet' version, but both are aimed at spinning this patently negative story into a positive for Team Jag/JLR.
The truth is as you suggest, '585bhp', this was a live project, not simply a PR exercise from the beginning.
Did anyone else notice that JLR's press office re-issued an old story about some vague, far off plans for building some indeterminate model in Arabia at the same time the story of the C-X75 cancellation came out? The mainstream media even headlined national bulletins with the 'good news' of JLR's Arabian [fairy)Tales, helpfully burying the more telling and immediate story of Jaguar's inabilty to concoct a hypercar competitor, aginst the likes of the 918 and new Enzo. This tawdry spinning is reminiscent of the worst of Mandelson's New Labour exploits.
As to Mr Harris's worst-ever global recession. He's right - for the 99%. For the one-percenters and much more so for the one-percent of the one-percent, their wealth has grown in mushroom fashion since the 'Credit Crunch' of 2007/8, post Bear Stearns collapse in 2007 and Lehmans' in 2008.
To say Jag pulled the plug because the market is too tight, or simply not there for these ~$1m cars is disingenous at best, deliberately deceiving at worst. Central London property, fine wines, art, vintage cars, etc., etc., have all gained massively in value since the Plebs have undergone Austerity for the last four to five years. Croesus would be a pauper in the terms of the 0.01% in 2012/13.
To say the market isn't there is therefore ridiculous. The 918 and new Enzo will be huge, oversubscribed sell-outs. The one thing we know for sure won't be there is an offering in this segment from JLR.
Sorry, Chris, expected far better.
The article reads remarkably like the same "Operation Damage Limitation from C-X75 cancellation" piece from Mr Steve Davies of Skiddmark.com, posted last night, which again sought to portray, let's be blunt, blatantly spin for Jaguar this story:
One could say Chris's piece reads like the tabloid version of Steve Davies' rather pompous, longwinded 'broadsheet' version, but both are aimed at spinning this patently negative story into a positive for Team Jag/JLR.
The truth is as you suggest, '585bhp', this was a live project, not simply a PR exercise from the beginning.
Did anyone else notice that JLR's press office re-issued an old story about some vague, far off plans for building some indeterminate model in Arabia at the same time the story of the C-X75 cancellation came out? The mainstream media even headlined national bulletins with the 'good news' of JLR's Arabian [fairy)Tales, helpfully burying the more telling and immediate story of Jaguar's inabilty to concoct a hypercar competitor, aginst the likes of the 918 and new Enzo. This tawdry spinning is reminiscent of the worst of Mandelson's New Labour exploits.
As to Mr Harris's worst-ever global recession. He's right - for the 99%. For the one-percenters and much more so for the one-percent of the one-percent, their wealth has grown in mushroom fashion since the 'Credit Crunch' of 2007/8, post Bear Stearns collapse in 2007 and Lehmans' in 2008.
To say Jag pulled the plug because the market is too tight, or simply not there for these ~$1m cars is disingenous at best, deliberately deceiving at worst. Central London property, fine wines, art, vintage cars, etc., etc., have all gained massively in value since the Plebs have undergone Austerity for the last four to five years. Croesus would be a pauper in the terms of the 0.01% in 2012/13.
To say the market isn't there is therefore ridiculous. The 918 and new Enzo will be huge, oversubscribed sell-outs. The one thing we know for sure won't be there is an offering in this segment from JLR.
Sorry, Chris, expected far better.
Guvernator said:
Max_Torque said:
wotnot said:
Guvernator said:
A hypercar fails as a green PR machine before it's even left the garage so again I really don't see the point.
That's because it isn't a green PR machine it's a technological tour de force. Buyers want them because they use absolute cutting edge technology that isn't replacing the internal combustion engine it's augmenting it. These are hybrids which will still make amazing noises and, let's be honest, how many hypercar buyers need to trade in their old model against a shiny new one anyway?
As for the extra dimension, I'm not sure what that's supposed to be. You can make a car more powerful quite easily without sticking several hundred kilo's worth of batteries in it which will blunt perfomance, handling and braking. Sorry but however way you cut it, a hybrid hypercar is a pointless exercise to me.
Guvernator said:
Sorry but however way you cut it, a hybrid hypercar is a pointless exercise to me.
However, doesn't the arrangement of small turbines, running on the c_rappiest fuel you can find, and 4 electric motors not sound like just the ticket for an SUV to sell in come of those rich emerging markets that are taking over the world?Max_Torque said:
Go drive one (ok, you're gonna have to wait a while unless you work for a select few car companies) then get back to me and tell me how you hate it..........
Didn't say I hated it, I think the 918 especially looks absolutely amazing and the best looking car to come out of Porsche's design department for a very long time. I'm also sure it will also go very well, I just can't see the point of sticking 200kgs worth of batteries in a hypercar. Sure stick it in a GT or an SUV and then I could sort of understand but in a hypercar, WHAT?A hybrid is designed for people who care about economy figures and who want to drive at 30mph everywhere so that they can do 100mpg while saving the whales, where is the point of such a device in a £1m extravagence designed to go 200mph+? Besides current hybrid battery technology is a dead end, the sooner car manufacturers realise that, the sooner they can get on with designing something better.
Guvernator said:
Didn't say I hated it, I think the 918 especially looks absolutely amazing and the best looking car to come out of Porsche's design department for a very long time. I'm also sure it will also go very well, I just can't see the point of sticking 200kgs worth of batteries in a hypercar. Sure stick it in a GT or an SUV and then I could sort of understand but in a hypercar, WHAT?
I cant see why Porsche are putting 200kg of V8 in.JonnyVTEC said:
Guvernator said:
Didn't say I hated it, I think the 918 especially looks absolutely amazing and the best looking car to come out of Porsche's design department for a very long time. I'm also sure it will also go very well, I just can't see the point of sticking 200kgs worth of batteries in a hypercar. Sure stick it in a GT or an SUV and then I could sort of understand but in a hypercar, WHAT?
I cant see why Porsche are putting 200kg of V8 in.Sometimes I get the strong feeling that this MOTORING forum is being overrun by people who have very little interest in cars, very strange.
Not really, I just liked the idea of a 1.6 super-turbo. Actually I liked the idea of the tubines aswell. No V8 but neither option presents a car with "just batteries only"! If i wanted a nice big V8 engine I'd just buy a Ferrari 458 for quite literally a fraction of the price of a 918.
But then Id only have a supercar, and not a hypercar.
Oh and i did some stuff on this dead car so I dont really think criticising other people for 'not having an interest in cars' really has much point. Please dont confuse your opinions with fact.
But then Id only have a supercar, and not a hypercar.
Oh and i did some stuff on this dead car so I dont really think criticising other people for 'not having an interest in cars' really has much point. Please dont confuse your opinions with fact.
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Friday 14th December 12:15
JonnyVTEC said:
Not really, I just liked the idea of a 1.6 super-turbo. Actually I liked the idea of the tubines aswell. No V8 but neither option presents a car with "just batteries only"! If i wanted a nice big V8 engine I'd just buy a Ferrari 458 for quite literally a fraction of the price of a 918.
But then Id only have a supercar, and not a hypercar.
Oh and i did some stuff on this dead car so I dont really think criticising other people for 'not having an interest in cars' really has much point. Please dont confuse your opinions with fact.
At no point did I say some of the ideas on the C-X75 weren't interesting, in fact if you read my previous posts I am genuinely disappointed that it didn't come to fruition. I still don't fully see the reason for putting this tech into a hypercar when it could be put to better use elsewhere but I can sort of understand the argument for a cutting edge halo model.But then Id only have a supercar, and not a hypercar.
Oh and i did some stuff on this dead car so I dont really think criticising other people for 'not having an interest in cars' really has much point. Please dont confuse your opinions with fact.
What I was trying to say is that I don't really see the point of using OLD hybrid tech in the other new batch of hypercars which are being released and indeed trying to sell it as cutting edge.
Therefore I would suggest in kind that your work on the project is colouring your objectivity and making you confuse your opinions as fact.
Guvernator said:
What I was trying to say is that I don't really see the point of using OLD hybrid tech in the other new batch of hypercars which are being released and indeed trying to sell it as cutting edge.
Exactly. Hence, I dont see why Porsche are putting a V8 in it....Which is what I said before.
Guvernator said:
What? Did you just really say that? Are you sure you are on the right forum? I'd like to see how far you'd get if you only had the batteries for motive power. Currently an ICE engine is the only viable option to get a car to move at a reasonable speed or travel further than 50 miles before needing to recharge for 8 hours. Oh and V8's sound awesome! ;-)
Sometimes I get the strong feeling that this MOTORING forum is being overrun by people who have very little interest in cars, very strange.
I love noisy engines, yet to say someone who doesn't is not a car fan is not really correct. They just have a different opinion on what they would like, or what they might like to see. They're still as much a car fan as the rest of us.Sometimes I get the strong feeling that this MOTORING forum is being overrun by people who have very little interest in cars, very strange.
JonnyVTEC said:
Guvernator said:
What I was trying to say is that I don't really see the point of using OLD hybrid tech in the other new batch of hypercars which are being released and indeed trying to sell it as cutting edge.
Exactly. Hence, I dont see why Porsche are putting a V8 in it....Which is what I said before.
There is a lot of talk and probably a lot of research going on in the background on hybrid technology but I've yet to see anything released till now which I would see as a viable replacement for the venerable ICE, ESPECIALLY in a performance car.
JonnyVTEC said:
Whats the envelope of a 'performance car' though, quick 10 second of throttle to show your mates or a full trackday. I think thats where these hybrid hypercars need the large engines for the sustained high power demand of the latter but in reality most will be driven for the former?
Probably very true but let me put it to you this way since you seem to work in this sector so will probably have more knowledge then me. What current or near future tech (with next 5 years say) can you see which would totally replace the ICE powerplant in a supercar\hypercar BUT it has to be able to operate under the same paramaters, i.e. 200mph+ top speead, acceptable range, let's say 150 miles, ability to be able to refuel in less than 5 minutes for another 150 mile range and lastly be emotive in the way it looks, drives, sounds etc. This might not be so important in a city commuter car which is where hybrids make the most sense IMO but very important on a £1m toy. It also has to do this without adding excess weight or compromise packaging any more than an ICE would. I'm all ears.JonnyVTEC said:
Guvernator said:
What I was trying to say is that I don't really see the point of using OLD hybrid tech in the other new batch of hypercars which are being released and indeed trying to sell it as cutting edge.
Exactly. Hence, I dont see why Porsche are putting a V8 in it....Which is what I said before.
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