RE: Porsche says 'kerching!'

[stuckmojo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

My view is also that the car is very expensive and not that much better than the one it replaced. In fact, call me an heretic, but I would take a 997 GTS over any 991 without blinking.

Mind you, I haven't driven the 991, but what I like the most about my 996 is precisely the way it connects to the road. If the 991 has lost a bit of that, then you might as well get something else if not obsessed by the badge.

[SD and P]

Deva Link said:

k-ink said:

So Porsche is effectively an SUV maker, with a tiny little sideline in sports cars.

There's a precedent - isn't Lamborghini a tractor maker?

Lamobrghini are not the only tractor maker with a line of sports cars
I think I prefer the aesthetics of this to Porsche's current diesels...

[Munich]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is also an opportunity cost element here too. The Boxster might well make money, but for the amount of resources required, these resources would be better employed on the big 4x4 or saloon as I assume the return on investment is far higher on these models…

[ant leigh]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

With most vehicles the development costs (including marketing etc) are always more than you would believe but the actual manufacturing costs per unit are also much less than you might expect.

[DonkeyApple]

Cyrus1971 said:

They did nearly go bust in the 1990's, sailed very close to the wind building those true enthusiasts cars you mention. It nearly killed the brand. No pheonix would have risen. It would have been the end of another fine marque, probably picked up for a few Deutsch Marks by VAG and we would have had less choice than we have now. Making Cayenne Turbos for countries with the $$$ is a mature business' risk management strategy and since it works and gives us mental cars like the GT2RS I am all for it.

Don't forget that people who repeatedly crash and roll their 911 and then going and buying another one also helps keep them in business. You shouldn't under estimate your personal importance in their economic recovery.

[Ozzie Osmond]

ant leigh said:

With most vehicles the development costs (including marketing etc) are always more than you would believe but the actual manufacturing costs per unit are also much less than you might expect.

DonkeyApple said:

Don't forget that people who repeatedly crash and roll their 911 and then going and buying another one also helps keep them in business. You shouldn't under estimate your personal importance in their economic recovery.

So much wisdom. And so early in the day!

[Munich]

ant leigh said:

With most vehicles the development costs (including marketing etc) are always more than you would believe but the actual manufacturing costs per unit are also much less than you might expect.

probably quite true, but I would assume that the contribution margin per unit is a lot higher on a Cayenne than a Boxster. The the development and tooling costs for the Cayenne are also spread across the Tourag and Q7 projects too.

[pagani1]

In the mid beginning the 968/928 were flopping badly and the 911(993) was getting old. So the Boxster SAVED Porsche and the 996 shared most of the Boxster chassis body etc. When they realised the buyers said they were too similar they slapped some new lights on, fixed the dodgy 3.4 engine aka now 3.6 and then in a sheer moment of brilliance designed the Cayenne. Meanwhile made a more expensive Boxster aka Cayman for the "enthusiast".
Fast forward to now and the new 911 has grown into a 911 Coupe, the REAL 911 is the CAYMAN/ Boxster in size and apart from mid engine is almost a copy of the original recipe. What they are doing is called upsizing.
Eventually the Boxster/Cayman will grow (bloat) and a new baby sports car will emerge, basically a blue motion roadster with Porsche bodywork and Audi engine, currently "on hold". The whole process is a tribute to the management of Porsche through the Wiedking years, he just got too uppity for Mr. Piech, when he attempted to buy the whole VW kaboosh and was booted out. However compare it to British Leyland or BMC and it looks great.
So I will wait for my 4 cylinder roadster to appear or buy the latest Boxster in 3 years time when depreciation has worked it's way through the new prices. Still a great car company, and if you lust for a 911 oldie (aircooled) BUY NOW or try and afford a Singer repro-Ha Ha.
PS Maybe the "new money" will help Aston Martin finesse their plan to a similar one as Porsche and with AMG power why not.
Merry Christmas Pistonheaders from the "old fart"

[pagani1]

A good point but basically still holds up as they have to share chassis for cost reasons so the hard points will always be similar.Show me any newer models that have not grown wider aka Golf into Golf+, Polo into Golf etc etc.
PPS Best Wishes to all at Aston Martin for keeping it going on ford engines
To McLaren for producing road cars again
To Caterham for having a go at new designs
To Pagani for brightening the supercar landscape
To EVO magazine for holding a true course of journalism
To Audi for saving Lamborghini- can you go a bit madder now and again
To Ferrari for the 458 and ditching the Japanese styling of these past 10 years
Commiserations or brickbats to Mr Smolenski-you know who you are-R.I.P TVR
To DRI Hicom Lotus - you should have let Danny have the money for the Esprit at least.

[kazino]

I hope it Just means they'll have tons more money to spend on development of the boxster and 911 range, those models are surely still at the forefront of their marketing. Fingers crossed, although no idea why they've done this whole electronically assisted steering, it really makes the car loose much of it's character.

[oilit]

kambites said:

Makes me wonder whether it's really worth them producing the Boxster, too. For a company that big, a car sitting on a bespoke platform that only sells 1200 a month, a couple of months after release can't be making much profit? Given how much of their market is China, and how little interest the Chinese have in sports cars, the question has got to be on somebody's mind.

LOL 1200 a month is still somewhere around 14-15k units a year - of one model which probably shares more content with the other stuff they make than we realise - thus costs maybe quite low and margins reasonable.

Also the likes of AM etc would LOVE to sell that many of the AM Vantage a year me thinks (dont actually know their unit sales but cant imagine its that high!)

[wheelsmith]

Porsche sells a lot of cars because it makes some of the best cars in its sector.

The boxster is the bench mark in its class, the 911 was until recently the 2 door sport coupe to beat and the cayenne is an excellent 4x4 compared to its rivals.
Simples

[oyster]

J4CKO said:

Deep said:

J4CKO said:

I think they have gone from a high end niche manufacturer to more of a player in the normal premium German realm, I remember as a kid if you spotted a Porsche it was a rare thing, even the front engined ones, now it is a mainstream choice.

How do you mean mainstream choice? They are not rare by any stretch but how many people do you personally know (internet buddies don't count) who have ordered or own a new 991s?

I know someone with a Cayenne Turbo, lady at work has a 997 Cab, a lad there has a Boxster, a Cayenne S on our road and round the vicinity there are a lot of Porsches, helps that the local dealer isnt far, the town centre is full of them, but I dont know anyone with a 991 yet, I can only muster an old 944.

You don't move in mainstream circles.
Of my entire circle of friends and colleagues none currently own Porsches. 2 used to (me and one other - and they were sports cars not SUVs)
Most of the people I know are on decent money too.

They are very far from mainstream.

[caraddict]

SmartVenom said:

I am shocked at just how few 911s/boxsters they actually sell. Especially as round my way I see a lot of brand new 911s. Thank goodness that the cash cow cayenne keeps them going.

This must be bad news for those who insist that the GT3 will be manual as porsche will worry about sales of a PDK car. GT3 sales must be so tiny as a percentage of overall sales that I can't see porsche feeling any urgent need to respond to a small segment demanding manuals. That said I guess its a miracle porsche make GT3s at all!

I agree! With around 20.000 F430 sales (speculative no. from FerrariChat.com, as Ferrari is known to keep real numbers to themselves), I kind of expected at least 10.000 911's a year (I know it sounds a lot, but so does 4000 F430s per year).

The very analogue Carrera GT will probably go into Porsche history as one of the truly greats. Don't want to speculate, but they are often totaled judging by what I read around the web, so sooner or later there will be less than 1000 left and that's pretty rare aside from hypercars like Pagani and Koenigsegg...

[Ozzie Osmond]

caraddict said:

I agree! With around 20.000 F430 sales

I kind of expected at least 10.000 911's a year.

Yup, those F430 owners have some BIG depreciation to look forward to!

Bear in mind it took Lotus 30 years to build 10,000 Esprits.

[J4CKO]

oyster said:

J4CKO said:

Deep said:

J4CKO said:

I think they have gone from a high end niche manufacturer to more of a player in the normal premium German realm, I remember as a kid if you spotted a Porsche it was a rare thing, even the front engined ones, now it is a mainstream choice.

How do you mean mainstream choice? They are not rare by any stretch but how many people do you personally know (internet buddies don't count) who have ordered or own a new 991s?

I know someone with a Cayenne Turbo, lady at work has a 997 Cab, a lad there has a Boxster, a Cayenne S on our road and round the vicinity there are a lot of Porsches, helps that the local dealer isnt far, the town centre is full of them, but I dont know anyone with a 991 yet, I can only muster an old 944.

You don't move in mainstream circles.
Of my entire circle of friends and colleagues none currently own Porsches. 2 used to (me and one other - and they were sports cars not SUVs)
Most of the people I know are on decent money too.

They are very far from mainstream.

I suppose it does depend where you live, you do get a bit blase about high end cars, in Cheshire the standard transport is a black RR Sport.

I think there are more Porsches on the road today than ever before, perhaps not mainstream like you say but as a kid I used to see one every week or two, they were a rare treat but nowadays you see quite a few every day and it is pretty much the same area, I suppose back then they just did the 911, 928, 924 and 944 which were all Sportscars, with the Cayenne and Panamera in the mix, especially with the rise of the SUV and prevalence of finance they just arent a rare sight anymore, I like to think I have the most exclusive Porsche in the area

Back in the day a Porsche meant you were rich, a Cayenne diesel can be had for £600 odd a month, hell, even I could probably run to that, not that much over my car allowance, it is still sort of a Porsche, well obviously it is all Porsche but it isnt my idea of a Porsche being huge and running on diesel, but times change.

a Ford Galaxy is £400 odd to lease a diesel one in a decent spec, another £200, ok a fair wedge to find every month but I can see how people stretch the budget a little if they need a car anyway, pretty tempting to trade up from the airport taxi (we have one) to a Cayenne for an additional £200, think all the Evoque drivers are probably stretchign the budget from something like a Freelander or some other hair shirt soft roader to the altogether sexier Evoque.

Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 19th December 20:49