RE: New 380hp Radical coupe revealed
Discussion
dandare said:
Not really on its own. GD T70, Ultima GTR, both with a better power to weight ratio, and cheaper on the road price.
They will be entering an existing market segment with no unique selling proposition.
Fully agree. Radical are entering above the existing market, with the same weight, similar styling (although much uglier to my eye) and less power. £100K+VAT before any options are added is a lot of money for a car of this type.They will be entering an existing market segment with no unique selling proposition.
I like the look of the push-rod suspension, however. I'm sure Radical will set it up properly, so it should be a sweet handler. It'll be interesting to see if they can make the paddle-shift 'box work on the road, or whether it's too harsh (i.e. only suited to the track).
The engine will clearly provide decent punch, but a manual 'box would have been more engaging, simpler and cheaper.
There's a gap in the market left by TVR & (old) Noble, which to my mind would better serve us, rather than £100K+ cars like this, which I'd assume would have a limited market (50/yr seems ambitious). But that's just my view
356Speedster said:
dandare said:
Not really on its own. GD T70, Ultima GTR, both with a better power to weight ratio, and cheaper on the road price.
They will be entering an existing market segment with no unique selling proposition.
Fully agree. Radical are entering above the existing market, with the same weight, similar styling (although much uglier to my eye) and less power. £100K+VAT before any options are added is a lot of money for a car of this type.They will be entering an existing market segment with no unique selling proposition.
Secondly, what Radical are actually doing is entering another segment of the race car market.
Bert
Bert's correct. Look at the downforce it will generate - quite unlike anything else really. Their current cars are absolutely brilliant on the track, a complete step up from anything based on a road car (way more cornering grip than my GT3, which is due to the combination of reduced kgs, increased downforce and more mechanical grip from the slicks).
I agree that it's not the prettiest of cars, but that's a difficult circle to square given the competing priorities (legal vs aero).
I agree that it's not the prettiest of cars, but that's a difficult circle to square given the competing priorities (legal vs aero).
Cyrus1971 said:
So just like a mini Ultima without the V8 ?
It does get a V8, as well. This article might not mention it. But on Radical's own website it says quite clear there's a choice of it's own 3.0L V8 (two bike engines bolted together) which is also used in their top of the line race car. Don't know how much weight saving you will get from choosing the V8 option instead of the Ford V6. From my understanding that V8 is even lighter than a normal 4 cylinder! Plus, the power should be more than 450bhp (that's what the V8 Atom has).
loveice said:
Cyrus1971 said:
So just like a mini Ultima without the V8 ?
It does get a V8, as well. This article might not mention it. But on Radical's own website it says quite clear there's a choice of it's own 3.0L V8 (two bike engines bolted together) which is also used in their top of the line race car. Don't know how much weight saving you will get from choosing the V8 option instead of the Ford V6. From my understanding that V8 is even lighter than a normal 4 cylinder! Plus, the power should be more than 450bhp (that's what the V8 Atom has).
At £120,000 and its a steel tube car with fibreglass bodywork with kit car styling from a couple of decades ago.
It is the price of a new Aston Martin Vantage - actually this radical is £30,000 more than the entry level V8 Vantage new.
The likes of Caterham and Westfield still manage to manufacture road going cars of this construction for nearly one tenth of this price.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/cla...
hard to see the other £105,000 in the pictures and spec, hard to see who it is aimed at and what their motivation would be in buying this over so many other posibilities.
It is the price of a new Aston Martin Vantage - actually this radical is £30,000 more than the entry level V8 Vantage new.
The likes of Caterham and Westfield still manage to manufacture road going cars of this construction for nearly one tenth of this price.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/cla...
hard to see the other £105,000 in the pictures and spec, hard to see who it is aimed at and what their motivation would be in buying this over so many other posibilities.
Edited by RTH on Thursday 13th December 09:47
RTH said:
At £120,000 and its a steel tube car with fibreglass bodywork with kit car styling from a couple of decades ago.
It is the price of a new Aston Martin Vantage - actually this radical is £30,000 more than the entry level V8 Vantage new.
The likes of Caterham and Westfield still manage to manufacture road going cars of this construction for nearly one tenth of this price.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/cla...
hard to see the other £105,000 in the pictures and spec, hard to see who it is aimed at and what their motivation would be in buying this over so many other posibilities.
Yes, because a bottom-spec Caterham is definitely the same kind of machine. May as well look at the Caterham compared to a Dacia Sandero.It is the price of a new Aston Martin Vantage - actually this radical is £30,000 more than the entry level V8 Vantage new.
The likes of Caterham and Westfield still manage to manufacture road going cars of this construction for nearly one tenth of this price.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/cla...
hard to see the other £105,000 in the pictures and spec, hard to see who it is aimed at and what their motivation would be in buying this over so many other posibilities.
Edited by RTH on Thursday 13th December 09:47
It might not be pretty, but with the race-proven skills of Radical it should be a hoot.
Is this not just a Radical SR3 with a roof? Should be very quick around a track, esp with all the downforce, but isn't going to be as pratical is other track day cars.
Also i dont think there is really a market for this car. Its not really going head to head with the ultima as its fully built and much more track focused.
Chris.
Also i dont think there is really a market for this car. Its not really going head to head with the ultima as its fully built and much more track focused.
Chris.
BertBert said:
There's two really good reasons why Radical are NOT entering the GDT70/Ultima market. Firstly they are road cars and the Radical really is a race car so in the road market, they will be very different experiences.
Secondly, what Radical are actually doing is entering another segment of the race car market.
Bert
Except as the article says (and the official press release I saw yesterday), it's a road car and as such will have road car compromises (granted not many though!).Secondly, what Radical are actually doing is entering another segment of the race car market.
Bert
chuntington101 said:
Its not really going head to head with the ultima as its fully built and much more track focused.
Chris.
The Ultima is available direct from the factory fully built, but I agree it's not as track focussed at the Radical, so it more livable on the road.... which as the Radical is billed as a road car, does make them competitors on some levels.Chris.
......... Sorry, I thought this was Pistonheads, I must've wandered into "what school run car" by accident. Most of the threads bemoan modern cars for being too heavy / insulating / automated, Someone makes a hard-core racer, that can be street legal & everyone slates it because - it's not very pretty, or states that a caterham is more practical! Jees! I'm waiting for someone to complain about the lack of reversing sensors or mountings for a tow ball.
No-one's going to be parking this in Tescos while they do the weekly shop.
No-one's going to be commuting in it.
No-one's going to be taking the kids to the south of France in it.
What people might do, is drive to track days.
What people might do, is enter a street-legal race series.
What people might do, is enjoy the pin-sharp focus of the experience.
What people might do, is park it in thier big garage with all the other exotics - which would be a shame.
Yes, it's expensive, but still in these hard-up times, less than a tenth of a banker's bonus. 50 a year world wide? I see no reason why not.
.... and to those who say "kit car styling", I say show me an attractive race car designed in the last 20 years. I also say "BMW's flame surface styling", as well as the generic, over-sculpted dross in showrooms the length & breadth of the country. The "professionals" don't do any better these days. The Radical looks purposeful. If I was choosing a car based on it's looks I'd not be drawn to it sure, but any 12 year old boy seeing it WILL stop dead in his tracks. Styling? Job done I'd say.
No-one's going to be parking this in Tescos while they do the weekly shop.
No-one's going to be commuting in it.
No-one's going to be taking the kids to the south of France in it.
What people might do, is drive to track days.
What people might do, is enter a street-legal race series.
What people might do, is enjoy the pin-sharp focus of the experience.
What people might do, is park it in thier big garage with all the other exotics - which would be a shame.
Yes, it's expensive, but still in these hard-up times, less than a tenth of a banker's bonus. 50 a year world wide? I see no reason why not.
.... and to those who say "kit car styling", I say show me an attractive race car designed in the last 20 years. I also say "BMW's flame surface styling", as well as the generic, over-sculpted dross in showrooms the length & breadth of the country. The "professionals" don't do any better these days. The Radical looks purposeful. If I was choosing a car based on it's looks I'd not be drawn to it sure, but any 12 year old boy seeing it WILL stop dead in his tracks. Styling? Job done I'd say.
Edited by Fury1630 on Thursday 13th December 11:24
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