RE: Lotus adds Evora 'Sports Racer' models
Discussion
smilo996 said:
Easier to start with an over stuffed car then make stripped out race versions for more money than the opposite.
The fact that strategy works for some companies is more an indication of how gullible some of their customers are. "Ooh, look, string door pulls, my Porsche is so light, but can you add the stereo and AC back in". WMP said:
Do a stripped out GT3 version, race it at Le Mans, then release it for £46.5k (which hopefully still makes money?).
This will sell.
Ah, but then Porsche will drop the 911 to 40k and the Cayman to 30k, and Lotus will have to throw in a free Elise and a go on the chairman's wife. Because the prices are totally arbitrary and unconstrained by costs, aren't they?This will sell.
Lotusevoraboy said:
3) Many people on here are losing track of the fact that cars nowadays cost big money...many minis are £20k plus, Corsas are pushing high teens specced up. It's easily possible to spec an Insignia or any Vauxhall or Ford saloon up to £30k with all the options. New 4x4's whether Evoque, Discovery, Lexus, Audi or VW are £40-50k new, let's not even mention RR at £90k. In this context, given what the Evora is and it's exotic looks, combined with rarity, £50K new, or high £30'sK at one year old and £500 a month is phenomenal value. People on here that talk of Lotus needing to knock out sports cars or super cars for £20-£30k need to get real....that's almost super mini money these days!
As always with these threads, I am amazed by what people think low volume sportscars should cost. A 17k BMW 1-series with one of their larger engines dropped in it becomes "a bargain" at thirty grand, because it's ten grand cheaper than Audi sell their 17k A3 with one of their bigger engines dropped in it. Maybe that's it, people are used to a 40k car being 90% the same as something that can be sold at a profit for less than half that and think that there is a similar amount of fat in Lotus's prices?otolith said:
think that there is a similar amount of fat in Lotus's prices?
That is clearly the fundamental problem. No fat at all - because of the costs and magnified by very low volumes.Why are the volumes so low? Regrettably the fundamental truth is that Lotus owners and potential owners wanted the new car to be a great looking, 2-seat, V8 Esprit. What they were offered was the Evora.
Ozzie Osmond said:
otolith said:
think that there is a similar amount of fat in Lotus's prices?
That is clearly the fundamental problem. No fat at all - because of the costs and magnified by very low volumes.Why are the volumes so low? Regrettably the fundamental truth is that Lotus owners and potential owners wanted the new car to be a great looking, 2-seat, V8 Esprit. What they were offered was the Evora.
Better to have steered away from 911, and gone for people who had 911 money, but didn't want a 911, or anything very similar to it. I think that would have lead to something like an Esprit - low, wide and wedgy, with space in the 2-seater chassis for a V8 and some alarming performance.
I'd be wetting my pants at the idea of owning one of those.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Friday 21st December 10:17
MrTappets said:
Just remind me, how much does a well-specced 991 come in at?
£80-£100k. Yet despite being much cheaper, the Evora isn't moving. Because they've set their shoulder against the closest thing in the auto industry to an immovable object.
Which was some variety of arrogant, daft and over-ambitious of them to do.
MrTappets said:
Just remind me, how much does a well-specced 991 come in at?
A 911 goes for £70k , ok you are probably looking at close to £80k for a decent specced one but that is mostly irrelevant as Porsche are in a fortunate position to able to charge what they like as a 911 basically sells itself. Lotus aren't so a £66k price is just too close for many. I'm not saying they need to give them away but the Evora needs to drop in price as Lotus aren't a £60k brand unfortunately in most people's eyes no matter how well they might drive.I do wonder if they'd have sold more Evoras if they'd charged more for it to set it directly against (but still cheaper than) the 911, rather than at a price that made people see it as an expensive Cayman competitor. Ditch the non-supercharged model and start the S at, say, 70k with a decent standard spec?
I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
Toaster said:
"The 2012 Lotus Evora: one of the world's best handling road cars - at a fraction of the price of the competition. The Evora S combines award-winning road holding and ride characteristics with incredible performance and a level of luxury never seen before in a Lotus."
Wake up you negative people your missing a truly great car..........then again don't and leave us with the fun and enjoyment
The problem is handling is such a hard sell, people can tell straight away the build quality, styling and character of the engine etc, but handling is so subjective and difficult to quantify.Wake up you negative people your missing a truly great car..........then again don't and leave us with the fun and enjoyment
Lotus did best when they excelled in areas people more easily noticed, Like the SE Esprit, great looks and one of the quickest accelerating cars of it's day (and one of there best selling varients)
If they shoved in a crate amercian V8 (which was hardly going to add ££££ to the car) they would have had a proper V8 powertrain and competitor busting performance, ok the build is not going to match rivals, but it never has
I blame the Elise to an extent, everyone raved on and on about the handling etc, and Lotus probably bought into the idea this "handling" was the thing that made the car succesfull, when in fact it was successful because in addition to "handling" it looked good, and had pretty decent performance aswell, + it used innovative engineering.
As soon as they dropped the decent engine options and left the car with a puny 1.6 sales tanked, despite it being the only elise you could buy, despite it still having the same great "handling"
Just my 2p's worth, but lotus need to start putting some performance back into there lineup if they want to do well, i dont think it's coincidence there biggest demand is for the new Exige, the one Lotus in the lineup offering real performance
Had the Evora, come with a yankee V8 and similar levels of go, i've no doubt it would have found many more buyers
kambites said:
I do wonder if they'd have sold more Evoras if they'd charged more for it to set it directly against (but still cheaper than) the 911, rather than at a price that made people see it as an expensive Cayman competitor. Ditch the non-supercharged model and start the S at, say, 70k with a decent standard spec?
I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
No way. Very few brands can play the 'reassuringly expensive' card, and Lotus aren't one of them.I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
It might have upped their margin per unit, but it would have cut sales even further. You could argue they've sold so few that the customers they found would clearly very keen, and thus would have paid more. But equally you could argue that they've sold so few because the majority of people who they were aiming at didn't consider it represented value as it stands.
I don't think the price per se is wrong, as I believe the right Lotus could survive at that altitude. I just don't think Evora was the right concept or the right styling.
I really, really like the Evora but that is despite of its looks. The front 3/4 view is the most awkward for me. If they had managed to make the thing look incredible, it would be selling on looks alone.
If an Evora looked more like the Elan concept (still retaining the 2+2)....
More pics here:
http://www.dieselstation.com/Lotus/Elan-Concept-20...
If an Evora looked more like the Elan concept (still retaining the 2+2)....
More pics here:
http://www.dieselstation.com/Lotus/Elan-Concept-20...
philnotts said:
I was thinking of selling my 911 for a Evora S as i don't use the 911 anymore daily and wanted a fun weekend toy! Reading the views on here though, i am getting the idea i maybe metal !!
Phil
Whatever you do, do not let pistonheads shape your opinion! Go book a test drive.Phil
SpeckledJim said:
kambites said:
I do wonder if they'd have sold more Evoras if they'd charged more for it to set it directly against (but still cheaper than) the 911, rather than at a price that made people see it as an expensive Cayman competitor. Ditch the non-supercharged model and start the S at, say, 70k with a decent standard spec?
I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
No way. Very few brands can play the 'reassuringly expensive' card, and Lotus aren't one of them.I don't really understand why anyone would pay the premium to own a 911 Carrera over a Cayman, but clearly people do.
It might have upped their margin per unit, but it would have cut sales even further. You could argue they've sold so few that the customers they found would clearly very keen, and thus would have paid more. But equally you could argue that they've sold so few because the majority of people who they were aiming at didn't consider it represented value as it stands.
I don't think the price per se is wrong, as I believe the right Lotus could survive at that altitude. I just don't think Evora was the right concept or the right styling.
braddo said:
I really, really like the Evora but that is despite of its looks. The front 3/4 view is the most awkward for me. If they had managed to make the thing look incredible, it would be selling on looks alone.
If an Evora looked more like the Elan concept (still retaining the 2+2)....
I agree. It's not a bad car. It's the wrong car.If an Evora looked more like the Elan concept (still retaining the 2+2)....
you're not mental just drive one and it will all make sense. they are a sensational steer, you just need to get in one and see. I would also see if you can get to Hethel and drive one on the track, it'll make even more sense then.
oh and make up your own mind, don't listen to the negative comments on here, half of which come from people who haven't even been in an Evora...
oh and make up your own mind, don't listen to the negative comments on here, half of which come from people who haven't even been in an Evora...
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