RE: PH Fleet: Toyota MR2

[SmartVenom]

Another worthwhile change if you want to improve the fast road experience would be the wheels. I don't mean a change in size, just a change in wheel. The standard toyota alloys weigh a tonne, almost all aftermarket 14s will weigh less. Apparently the 10kg+ you will save makes an even greater difference because it's rotating mass or something (sorry way outside my knowledge area). That's one of the big changes I was recommended by the most successful race team in the MR2 racing series.

[Scrof]

Great road test there s m; thanks for posting! Makes some interesting points, and I'd love to see a comparison between pre- and post-facelift cars. Mine doesn't seem to want to spin if you lift mid-corner; rather, the back end just comes back into line as you'd expect. Not sure whether that's down to the mid-life upgrades, better tyre technology or what! I actually find mine rather progressive on the limit; certainly, it only seems to get snappy when you're really ham-fisted with it, and if you try anything like that it just tends to understeer rather than oversteer.

Crunchy Nutter - I won't go into specifics but I'll say 'around £400' - that's fully comp on 5k limited mileage with 3 points, for a 27-year-old motoring journo - in other words, a pretty good deal!

SmartVenom - planning on going standard when I upgrade - I want to keep it as a fairly relaxed road toy rather than a track car so it probably won't see a circuit as for the wheels, I can well imagine that reducing the unsprung weight will make a huge difference, but I'm going to be wafty and keep it standard to look at!

[Tiger Tim]

It's heartbreaking seeing that. I killed exactly the same car albeit an '88. Super Red, T-bar, black leather and in beautiful condition.

Sadly it ended up in a field with every panel damaged. The joys of being inexperienced and having no fear.

[WeirdNeville]

Scrof said:

Great road test there s m; thanks for posting! Makes some interesting points, and I'd love to see a comparison between pre- and post-facelift cars. Mine doesn't seem to want to spin if you lift mid-corner; rather, the back end just comes back into line as you'd expect. Not sure whether that's down to the mid-life upgrades, better tyre technology or what! I actually find mine rather progressive on the limit; certainly, it only seems to get snappy when you're really ham-fisted with it, and if you try anything like that it just tends to understeer rather than oversteer.

They revised the Mk1b with a thicker rear ARB, this quelled it's oversteer a bit and of course lead to the purists deeming it neutered and the MK1a the "real" MR2!

[sawman]

Captain Muppet said:

pSyCoSiS said:

Thats sounds like a lot of fun.

Didn't realise these were RWD?!

Are they quite lairy in the wet then?

No more lairy than any other RWD car without TC or ESP.

The chassis is pretty communicative, It took me a while to fully trust mine - I came to it from a series of FWD cars, its immediate predecessor being an excellent AXGT. Mine only ever took me by surprise once and that was due to worn out tyres. It always felt pretty planted. I needed more space for work stuff in the car and traded it for a punto GT turbo - which I always regretted

[macdaddy11]

I think this is my first post if not one of my first, long time reader etc. So hi everyone, it's been a pleasure reading and learning so much from you all.

I had one of these a few years ago and loved every minute before I lost the old girl to rust, very sad but its memory lives on as a donor for many other Mk1s.

Head on over to mr2oc.co.uk where there is a wealth of knowledge on these. Modifications, upgrades, advice etc. Really good guys who know all there is to know about these cars.

The manual choke modification is well worth putting in once the waxstat fails, there is also a new throttle bracket available from one of the more experienced guys on there that replaces the horrible standard thing and apparently gives a better throttle response. And if your electric aerial isn't working, the Maplin part is much cheaper than Mr. T and works brilliant.

I think I might still have an electric window cog for when the window starts clonking, PM me if you want it.

Other than that, the drive is awesome, I miss mine loads. I'd do hundreds of miles a week and never had any issues, apart from hitting a roundabout a bit quick when the brakes were cold as they hadn't been used for a good couple of hours - it just showed me how controllable the car was. No real drama just a bit sideways and an a rapidly beating heart.

Ally

[Adam205]

WeirdNeville said:

hey revised the Mk1b with a thicker rear ARB, this quelled it's oversteer a bit and of course lead to the purists deeming it neutered and the MK1a the "real" MR2!

It actually quelled the mk1as tendancy to push out in some very wild understeer mid corner if you get on the throttle early.

However it also had the strange effect of reducing the lift off oversteer tendancy by reducing the camber change that occurred due to the mr2s pretty poor dynamic suspension geometry. The mk1b still suffers with this, but to a lesser extent.

If you want to solve it and are willing to put up with slightly reduced ride comfort, Whiteline ARBs (£300 from Camskill) and KYB dampers (£200 from Camskill) with standard springs (or Apex if you want to go a little lower) make the car exactly what it should have been.

The other problem is that there are no good road tyres made in 185/60 R14 anymore. The best option is to move to a 15" wheel with a 195/50 R15 and go for something like a Michelin Pilot Exalto 2 or Continental PremiumContact 2.

With the above changes the MR2 goes from being an 'entertaining' car to drive to being a really good handling, fun piece of kit.

Unfortunately it will always rust and always leak though

[Captain Muppet]

sawman said:

Captain Muppet said:

pSyCoSiS said:

Thats sounds like a lot of fun.

Didn't realise these were RWD?!

Are they quite lairy in the wet then?

No more lairy than any other RWD car without TC or ESP.

The chassis is pretty communicative, It took me a while to fully trust mine - I came to it from a series of FWD cars, its immediate predecessor being an excellent AXGT. Mine only ever took me by surprise once and that was due to worn out tyres. It always felt pretty planted. I needed more space for work stuff in the car and traded it for a punto GT turbo - which I always regretted

Mine was also my first RWD car, and I also had an AXGT! I'd just swapped the AX for a CRX, and as I was commuting a fair way each day (which had killed the Citroen) I decided to share the miles between the CRX and an MR2. I drove the MR2 when it was wet, because it was more fun, and drove the CRX when it was dry.

The MR2 rusted first, and I miss it.

[pSyCoSiS]

only1ian said:

WeirdNeville said:

pSyCoSiS said:

Thats sounds like a lot of fun.

Didn't realise these were RWD?!

Are they quite lairy in the wet then?

LOL Really?!

Not particulrly lairy. One of the most communicative chassis of all time - it writes you a polite note informing you that it might be about to let go. Perfect balance of grip and slip (on decent tyres) and no waywardness in slippery conditions. No ABS, no PAS and certainly no traction control though, so it's a very analogue driving experience. My two taught me more about driving than the rest of my cars put together.

Totally agree with this! I got caught out on my last one by retro fitting original year drop alloys and tyres from aftermarket 17's (the previous owners crime) I hit a patch of oil on a damp roundabout and then a lamppost at a sedate 20mph. It's when you get used to one level of grip and then suddenly reduce it that it can catch you unawares. Silly mistake and I still mourn the only car I've ever killed

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I genuinely didn't realise they were RWD! Always had a soft spot for one, so intrigued to find out more about them.

Seems like a very fun car, and a good chassis in which to improve driving skills.

What are these like to live with as a daily hack? Generally pretty reliable from what others have said here?

[Adam205]

Captain Muppet said:

Mine was also my first RWD car, and I also had an AXGT! I'd just swapped the AX for a CRX, and as I was commuting a fair way each day (which had killed the Citroen) I decided to share the miles between the CRX and an MR2. I drove the MR2 when it was wet, because it was more fun, and drove the CRX when it was dry.

The MR2 rusted first, and I miss it.

I also had an AX GT before my Mk1. We're obviously all attracted to rust!

[Adam205]

pSyCoSiS said:

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I genuinely didn't realise they were RWD! Always had a soft spot for one, so intrigued to find out more about them.

Seems like a very fun car, and a good chassis in which to improve driving skills.

What are these like to live with as a daily hack? Generally pretty reliable from what others have said here?

I've done 25k in just under 2 years in mine. Only had the AA out once because of a seized alternator. I have done a fair amount of 'preventative maintenance' but it doesn't take much.

Bear in mind that parts really aren't cheap considering what it is.

[Alfa159Ti]

Love these - a fine choice of steed sir!

I owned four MK2 MR2s over the years - two turbos and two NAs. Loved them all and miss having an MR2 in my life. Sliding into that low slung driving position always felt exciting, even if I was just driving to work.

Whilst I never owned one, I got to drive a friends MK1 many years ago and it felt superb - responsive steering and fizzy engine that loved to rev.

Low powered, open top, revvy petrols don't neccesarily need to BE fast in order to FEEL fast. Our old MK1 1.6 MX5 was testament to that. I'd be hairing along with the engine surging and rasping its way to the redline, slotting in another gear with the wind whistling through my bald spots. Then I'd look at the speedo and realise I had only just cracked 50mph. Great fun without the risk of losing your license...

Look forward to more war stories as the two of you get to know one another.

[macdaddy11]

pSyCoSiS said:

What are these like to live with as a daily hack? Generally pretty reliable from what others have said here?

Bullet-proof engine if looked after with regular oil changes, solid chassis, just get the rubbers sorted to stop it raining on the inside, and don't go cheap on tyres if you want to keep it the right shape.

I used mine all year round, I took it to work in 6 inches of snow, no problem if you remember that is rear wheel drive and will still try and have you if you get too confident...

[Philbar]

Again can't miss a chance to show off mine...





Currently its all tucked up nice and dry and warm in the garage waiting for better (drier) days....

[edited to add] I've owned mine now going on for 10 years in August, with 85k on the odo(now over 120k), and apart from the incident where a cretin in a Stagecoach bus 'didnt' see me and ran down the drivers door and almost ripped off the front wing and promptly drove off! , it has given no trouble, that includes 2 and one 3 week trips into Europe, you learn to pack wisely, and that includes a correct 15 inch spare in the frunk and the barest minimum of tools. My only gripe and its just mine is the small fuel tank for any extended journey in Europe, can be a pain with a 250-300 mile range.

I own a 1993 CRX VTi, and although nice to drive the MR2 is still more 'special' it feels better and is more involving the CRX is as its just a Civic in a fancy frock imo. Parts are available easily if you just look for them online or a decent motor factor. I've fitted the usual Magnex exhaust, Black diamond drilled discs(which are now 8 years old and not cracked so that debunked that myth of cracking in my own experience) 15 inch alloys with 195 Toyo Proxes. I agree with whats been said you dont need huge amounts of power to have fun driving - seems that Clarkson is responsible for that attitude!

Edited by Philbar on Wednesday 2nd January 14:42

[Captain Muppet]

pSyCoSiS said:

What are these like to live with as a daily hack? Generally pretty reliable from what others have said here?

You know how the standard answer to everything is "MX5"?

If I could find a rust free mk1 MR2 I'd rather have that than my MX5 turbo. Similar feedback, same excellent reliability, same sort of economy, similar running costs, more exotic to drive in and more boot space.

The only thing that the MX5 does better is drift, and not rust as quickly.

[pSyCoSiS]

Adam205 said:

I've done 25k in just under 2 years in mine. Only had the AA out once because of a seized alternator. I have done a fair amount of 'preventative maintenance' but it doesn't take much.

Bear in mind that parts really aren't cheap considering what it is.

Sounds good.

Thanks for that.

Are certain parts not shared with other Toyota models, or are they bespoke?

[WeirdNeville]

pSyCoSiS said:

Adam205 said:

I've done 25k in just under 2 years in mine. Only had the AA out once because of a seized alternator. I have done a fair amount of 'preventative maintenance' but it doesn't take much.

Bear in mind that parts really aren't cheap considering what it is.

Sounds good.

Thanks for that.

Are certain parts not shared with other Toyota models, or are they bespoke?

I found parts very reasonable. Many of them are parts bin from a corolla, and there is a strong aftermarket parts trade, along with many cars being broken.

Remarkably, if you DO have to resort to toyota, they still stock everything for them!
Brake discs ~£30, Suspension bushes £120 a set (i.e. all of them), dampers £200 the lot, Nothing in the engine breaks so no worries there.

I completely rebuilt my suspension (shocks, springs, bushes, bolts, top mounts, ball joints, inner and outer track rod arms, adjustable rear toe arms) for £700, got a stainless exhaust as new for £150, a gearbox for free, Set of four wheels for £40, tyres £50 a corner.

Rust rust rust is the killer. There are horrendous hidden rust spots on these cars, real death traps if left unseen/unsorted. People worry about rear arches looking shoddy, they should be worried about the front ARB mount points that collect water and rust through, compromising the entire front end of the car, the sills, the main weld line that runs down the front bulkhead by the wheelarch that collects rain from the 'screen and rots though... base of A-pillars, base of B-pillars.. the list is endless. Checking one of these prior to purchase is to poke every square inch of the underside with a screwdriver. I had one which died on the MOT ramps when the tester pointed out to me (with great tact and diplomacy it has to be said) that there was little more than paint holding front wheels to back, huge holes near seat belt mount points, holes in the floor pan. Deathtrap.

My grey one wasn't like that. Garaged and waxoyled from new, it was lovely and solid.

Edited by WeirdNeville on Wednesday 2nd January 14:53

[Adam205]

I'm not saying that parts are necessarily expensive, but considering that it is supposedly cobbled together from bits of hatchback they aren't that cheap. Or more, cheap aftermarket parts aren't available. A lot of stuff is genuine Toyota or quality aftermarket only, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you won't keep it going on a shoe string like an 80s hatch.

[TinyCappo]

Rear became a real handful on poo tyres. Pirelli P6000s should be avoided at all costs.

If the wife would allow it i would be back in a MK1 in a heart beat. Not a tbar though.

Get a jimmy bracket and enjoy the revs

[Kateg28]

TinyCappo said:

If the wife would allow it i would be back in a MK1 in a heart beat. Not a tbar though.

Hello Ben!

only1ian said:

You'll be needing the JDM supercharger variety then!