RE: PH Blog: What happened to the affordable coupe?
Discussion
I think that some modern hatchbacks are starting to look more and more like coupes which may also result in less coupes on the market (take a look at the Megane RS Cup article just up and the roof line is very coupe esque). So those that would have gone for a coupe may take a 3 door hatchback these days.
I think a previous poster pointed it out - manufacturers have been turning their three-door hatches into coupes for a while now.
Nearly all of them have one. The Audi A3 3-door has strong hints of the old GT about it, then there's the BMW 1-series coupe, the 3-door version of the Fiat Punto looks like a poor man's Maserati, the 3-door Fiesta seems to be a kind of successor to the Puma right down to its Aston Martin nose, then there's the Honda CRZ, Hyundai Veloster, Kia Proceed GT, Peugeot RCZ, the Proton Satria Neo has something of the coupe about it (just look at the rake of the windscreen), the Renault Megane Coupe, Seat Ibiza SC, VW Scirocco, Vauxhall GTC and Volvo C30.
It seems to me that they all share their underpinnings and names with more run-of-the-mill hatches, and have been designed with normal-sized rear-seat passengers in mind (fair enough, don't see a problem with that at all), but I don't see a dearth of coupes.
One that seems to be missing, that I'd love to see, is a 3-door coupe version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta, along the lines of the Scirocco and GTC. Could even get away with calling it the GTV.
Nearly all of them have one. The Audi A3 3-door has strong hints of the old GT about it, then there's the BMW 1-series coupe, the 3-door version of the Fiat Punto looks like a poor man's Maserati, the 3-door Fiesta seems to be a kind of successor to the Puma right down to its Aston Martin nose, then there's the Honda CRZ, Hyundai Veloster, Kia Proceed GT, Peugeot RCZ, the Proton Satria Neo has something of the coupe about it (just look at the rake of the windscreen), the Renault Megane Coupe, Seat Ibiza SC, VW Scirocco, Vauxhall GTC and Volvo C30.
It seems to me that they all share their underpinnings and names with more run-of-the-mill hatches, and have been designed with normal-sized rear-seat passengers in mind (fair enough, don't see a problem with that at all), but I don't see a dearth of coupes.
One that seems to be missing, that I'd love to see, is a 3-door coupe version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta, along the lines of the Scirocco and GTC. Could even get away with calling it the GTV.
does a Nissan Juke count as an SUV/Coupe?;)
I imagine the fact that manufacturers are constantly psuhing for "class leading " space etc in smaller cars almost negates the coupe as a bodystyle?
most people need a car that has at least some practicality- e.g. easy to reach rear seats etc (for installing sprogs)
re the 406 coupe- I'd wager that the "large mid-market coupe" no longer exists due to a dawning realisation that a 406 saloon/estate with the same lup was as capable, more practical and likely cheaper..
I imagine the fact that manufacturers are constantly psuhing for "class leading " space etc in smaller cars almost negates the coupe as a bodystyle?
most people need a car that has at least some practicality- e.g. easy to reach rear seats etc (for installing sprogs)
re the 406 coupe- I'd wager that the "large mid-market coupe" no longer exists due to a dawning realisation that a 406 saloon/estate with the same lup was as capable, more practical and likely cheaper..
trashbat said:
kambites said:
Anyway, surely scaling the Fiat Coupe up to today's money you'd be looking at Audi TT prices anyway? It was 20k in 1995! Same with the 200SX.
This - the Alfa GTV too. On the other hand, has what we consider 'affordable' fallen in real terms?£20k in 2000 is equivalent to £28k today (Bank of England inflation calculator).
£15k in 1995 equates to £24k today.
The number of coupes on offer has fallen but they were always a premium over the typical mid-sized hatch of the day. Stuff like the Scirocco, RCZ, TT, GT86 and 370Z still occupy the same relative price patches their predecessors did.
The thing is though, that something like the 200SX was not particularly affordable when they were last on sale. My 1999 200SX was listed at over 20K new, as were most of the others mentioned. To put it another way, they were pricing at similar levels to mid range A4s and 3 series. Relative to other things on the market, they were in about the same place as TTs, Z4s and 370zs.
Example- a 370z is currently about 30k, as is a 2.0T A4 sline. A 22K 200SX in 1999 was about the same price as a mid range A4 as well. Cougars were certainly more expensive than the equivalent Mondeo, as were 406 coupes.
Historically, the GT-86 is quite cheap, certainly cheaper (in terms of the rest of the market) than a 200SX ever was. I'm talking list prices, of course - I can't imagine (m)any 200SXs sold for anything like list.
ETA: no, I didn't buy the 200SX new. 5 years later it was rather cheaper...
Example- a 370z is currently about 30k, as is a 2.0T A4 sline. A 22K 200SX in 1999 was about the same price as a mid range A4 as well. Cougars were certainly more expensive than the equivalent Mondeo, as were 406 coupes.
Historically, the GT-86 is quite cheap, certainly cheaper (in terms of the rest of the market) than a 200SX ever was. I'm talking list prices, of course - I can't imagine (m)any 200SXs sold for anything like list.
ETA: no, I didn't buy the 200SX new. 5 years later it was rather cheaper...
I remember CAR doing an article in the late 70s or early 80s on the death of the coupe, mainly due to the rise of the hot hatch which was almost certainly responsible for their demise.
There used to be so many - Fiat 124 Coupe, Fiat 850 Coupe, Renault 15 and 17 and Fuego, Datson 120Y Coupe, Colt Celeste and GTO, Datsun 100A, Ford Capri, MGB GT, Alfa GTV, Alfetta GTV, Alfasud Sprint, Scirocco, Celica, Nissan Silvia and 200SX, Honda Prelude, Toyota Corolla Coupe, Vauxhall Firenza and Magnum Coupe, Opel Manta, Lancia Beta Coupe and Spyder, Rover 3.5 Coupe, Granada Ghia Coupe, Triumph GT6.
There are doubtless others and that is before you even include the 2 door variants which BMW would have you believe merits a Coupe tag.
They also didn't used to be all about handling and performance, they were about style (not always successfully) and often just based on an existing saloon.
Whereas back then it was about style, these days I regret it's more about the premium badge/status and the need to sell in volume and maximise profits. Bear in mind that back then, cars were more overpriced and we had that big debacle in the 80s of people importing from Europe thus forcing prices back down. Have a look at Clarkson's You Tube Top Gear article on 90s coupes which were "between 20 and 30k" for quite humdrum stuff. Now, people still stare like rabbits when 30k is mentioned for a Golf GTI.
There used to be so many - Fiat 124 Coupe, Fiat 850 Coupe, Renault 15 and 17 and Fuego, Datson 120Y Coupe, Colt Celeste and GTO, Datsun 100A, Ford Capri, MGB GT, Alfa GTV, Alfetta GTV, Alfasud Sprint, Scirocco, Celica, Nissan Silvia and 200SX, Honda Prelude, Toyota Corolla Coupe, Vauxhall Firenza and Magnum Coupe, Opel Manta, Lancia Beta Coupe and Spyder, Rover 3.5 Coupe, Granada Ghia Coupe, Triumph GT6.
There are doubtless others and that is before you even include the 2 door variants which BMW would have you believe merits a Coupe tag.
They also didn't used to be all about handling and performance, they were about style (not always successfully) and often just based on an existing saloon.
Whereas back then it was about style, these days I regret it's more about the premium badge/status and the need to sell in volume and maximise profits. Bear in mind that back then, cars were more overpriced and we had that big debacle in the 80s of people importing from Europe thus forcing prices back down. Have a look at Clarkson's You Tube Top Gear article on 90s coupes which were "between 20 and 30k" for quite humdrum stuff. Now, people still stare like rabbits when 30k is mentioned for a Golf GTI.
rossi1 said:
BMW E36 M3,Even an E46 M3, both easily found under 10k! I don't think you could want any more from a coupe?
I think you'll find "affordable" is not limited to sticker price but servicing as well.Also, Corrado mentionaed in the article wasn't exactly 'affordable'. It was overpriced and that's why it was a market failure.
IMO people believed marketing folk that they all need quasi-SUVs. So we have a lot of ugly boxes driving around. Market has shifted, unfortunately.
It does not change the fact that 20k gets you a pretty fresh 370Z or 3-series coupe...
kambites said:
...surely scaling the Fiat Coupe up to today's money you'd be looking at Audi TT prices anyway? It was 20k in 1995! Same with the 200SX.
I remember a local Fiat dealership having a Coupe 1.8 16v brand new in the showroom for DM32,000 back in 1998, and the local BMW dealer having a 6 month old 316i Compact for DM30,000 (about £11k at the time). A Honda Civic Coupe was the same price, as was an Astra G hatch; I remember this, as that was my shortlist at the time. I bought the Compact; probably the least exciting car of the lot, but it had the best build quality & best ride by a long stretch. Edit as my memory has just kicked in - also looked at an Alfa GTV Coupe at the time; 6 months old & a footwell of water (quite literally) on the drivers side put me off.
Difficult sector to compete in when the TT has so much of what most people want in a coupe, prestigous badge, respectable performance, sensible running costs, decent looks. A bit sad really.
The RCZ has differentiated itself on quirky looks, and the GT68 on driving feel, but neither are going to appeal to the mass market.
The RCZ has differentiated itself on quirky looks, and the GT68 on driving feel, but neither are going to appeal to the mass market.
trashbat said:
kambites said:
Anyway, surely scaling the Fiat Coupe up to today's money you'd be looking at Audi TT prices anyway? It was 20k in 1995! Same with the 200SX.
This - the Alfa GTV too. On the other hand, has what we consider 'affordable' fallen in real terms?Bladedancer said:
I think you'll find "affordable" is not limited to sticker price but servicing as well.
Also, Corrado mentionaed in the article wasn't exactly 'affordable'. It was overpriced and that's why it was a market failure.
IMO people believed marketing folk that they all need quasi-SUVs. So we have a lot of ugly boxes driving around. Market has shifted, unfortunately.
It does not change the fact that 20k gets you a pretty fresh 370Z or 3-series coupe...
The Kiss of death for the Corrado was the VR6 being put into a more practical car, namely the Golf, that and the fact that the market was moving away from them as a performance \ value bench mark. Remember at around the same time you had scoobies new with >220 bhp and they were supercar humbling all weather machines. 4WD also meant they wiped the floor with period Coupes.Also, Corrado mentionaed in the article wasn't exactly 'affordable'. It was overpriced and that's why it was a market failure.
IMO people believed marketing folk that they all need quasi-SUVs. So we have a lot of ugly boxes driving around. Market has shifted, unfortunately.
It does not change the fact that 20k gets you a pretty fresh 370Z or 3-series coupe...
The market had changed and Hot Hatches had got so fast there wasn't the need to fill the gap between hot hatch and my 1st premium car IMHO.
Didnt Rover do a Coupe as well?
Edited by T1berious on Tuesday 8th January 14:35
dukebox9reg said:
GT is a coupe, Brera is not, its a fat hatch. Mk1 Megane coupe with the williams based F7R engine always held a soft spot with me.
Brera's a grand tourer, but agreed. There was the 946 Spider though.
As someone else said on a different thread today though, it was all show and no go. Also too close to the 159 to survive that going out of production.
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