RE: PH Blog: What happened to the affordable coupe?
Discussion
Pug RCZs are already under £14k on the used market - give it another year or so and that starts to look like pretty good value for something still under warranty.
Can't help but agree with the article though - where are all the cheap but sexy coupes! I'm desparate for a motor that's light/cheap to own and fun - where's the next smart roadster??!
Can't help but agree with the article though - where are all the cheap but sexy coupes! I'm desparate for a motor that's light/cheap to own and fun - where's the next smart roadster??!
I think it doesn't help that the equivalent coupés nowadays just share exactly the same engines/doors/trims/seats/name alot of the time (Astra/Megane etc, why not rename them Calibra/Fuego) as the hatches they are always based on so you go for the Golf R rather than the Rocco R(the best coupe based hatch I think there probably is at the moment, the name change definitely helps). Coupés need to not be based on chopping the roof line of a hatch back and removing a couple of doors and if they are have a much better spec/engine to set it self apart, not be the same minus practicality.
Need to have extras like LSD's, extra power, much better spec, different interiors, one off bits unlike the hatch. Nothing wrong with using bits off another model (obviously companies need to save money) there just needs to be more distinction. I wouldn't mind for example if the new Nissan Toybaru rival had the Juke's engine, rear axle off the 4wd Juke, Front Axle off the clio etc but as long as it looked and felt different to a hatch with a hair cut.
Need to have extras like LSD's, extra power, much better spec, different interiors, one off bits unlike the hatch. Nothing wrong with using bits off another model (obviously companies need to save money) there just needs to be more distinction. I wouldn't mind for example if the new Nissan Toybaru rival had the Juke's engine, rear axle off the 4wd Juke, Front Axle off the clio etc but as long as it looked and felt different to a hatch with a hair cut.
Edited by dukebox9reg on Tuesday 8th January 15:16
Tell you who used to make excellent fast but affordable coupes, the Japanese. In fact I'd say they were the king of them in the 80's and 90's. You had the Celica, Impreza, MR2, 200SX, 300ZX, Supra and Skyline to name but a few and then for some reason towards the end of the 90's, all the Japanese manfucaturers seemed to loose the will to live and didn't want to make them anymore. While I don't think the GT-86\BRZ is perfect, I am still really glad that Toyabaru decided to make it as perhaps it will start a well overdue revival. Coupes are just so much sexier than hatchbacks.
Then again, if we're being really honest, aren't "premium" coupes and C segment Hot Hatches so good that there simply isn't the market for Coupes?
When the 4 series arrives it's most powerful unit will be 306 bhp, a Megane RS is 250 bhp and GTC VXR 276 bhp. To put all that in perspective those figures easily match a 2.7 Boxster.
And there's the problem. You're looking at something that is above a hot hatch and below a sports car. You can do that with brand cachet (step up Audi and BMW) or performance (370Z etc) but that was the magic of the 90's era Coupes, they acted as halo models.
I'm wondering if the traditional coupe has been replaced by the numerous CC's variants? Weight means they can't be performance models so they don't even try to be but they are different and due to the roof are 2+2 by design?
Hmmm....
When the 4 series arrives it's most powerful unit will be 306 bhp, a Megane RS is 250 bhp and GTC VXR 276 bhp. To put all that in perspective those figures easily match a 2.7 Boxster.
And there's the problem. You're looking at something that is above a hot hatch and below a sports car. You can do that with brand cachet (step up Audi and BMW) or performance (370Z etc) but that was the magic of the 90's era Coupes, they acted as halo models.
I'm wondering if the traditional coupe has been replaced by the numerous CC's variants? Weight means they can't be performance models so they don't even try to be but they are different and due to the roof are 2+2 by design?
Hmmm....
3 pages in and no one has mentioned the Integra Type R yet. How is this possible?
It is sad at the lack of coupes available now though, just another sign of the times really, manufacturer's as a whole don't seem to want to sell cars that are good too look at and fun to drive. Just safe practical beige machines that appeal to the couple and their 2.4 children. No such thing as individuality anymore unless you can afford to buy supercars.
It is sad at the lack of coupes available now though, just another sign of the times really, manufacturer's as a whole don't seem to want to sell cars that are good too look at and fun to drive. Just safe practical beige machines that appeal to the couple and their 2.4 children. No such thing as individuality anymore unless you can afford to buy supercars.
toho82 said:
I guess people just don't have the requirement for them? What does a coupe do that a decent hatch can't? Why would people pay more for a coupe?
The only thing I can think of is looks.Which is why I bought a 1 series coupé, and avoided the 1 series hatch. The coupé is less practical; 4 seats rather than 5, 2 doors rather than 5, and much less room for storage. But no kids here, so don't need all that guff.
To these eyes, the aesthetics of the 1 coupé are pleasing, the 1 hatch's are not.
Edited by Timbola on Tuesday 8th January 15:37
In a car-world where every useless niche has or is being explored by most....it is sad that this particular (only semi-useless) niche is under developed...I'm hoping the GT86 thing will reverse this trend.
Hardtop MX5 (not he MX5 with a hardtop) would be good....but make sure it's better than the MX-3...
Hardtop MX5 (not he MX5 with a hardtop) would be good....but make sure it's better than the MX-3...
LuS1fer said:
I'm sure the 1 series is marmite in either form. One factor that should be noted is that in the past, coupes have been fairly svelte and pretty and the blobby amorphous lumps we now have don't really lend themselves to being pretty, just chunky.
Plus I'm guessing with pedestrian safefty requirements making a coupe look svelt etc would be a neat trick?Hmmm, pedestrian \ impact air bags? That would be cool
Well, unitl the lawsuits due to people being ping ponged through traffic by external air bags....I think we're going to see these coming back, in the form of the 3 door hatchback. We're already at the point where the 3 and 5 doors are heavily skewed towards different markets, and the manufacturers are referring to 3 doors as 'coupe/sport coupe/sport hatch, etc.
I'm sure a lot of PHers remember the days when you had a 3 door and a 5 door of exactly the same body shell. Now the variations are different enough to identify just looking at one following you in your rear view mirror (or is that just me?).
So the logical next step is to put in a little more variation and then market the 3 door under a different name. I can't help feeling this is where Ford are going with their lack of 3-door Focus. Presumably this role will be taken on by the Capri (or whatever it's called) with affodability coming from use of the Focus platform. Unless they just use the Mustang, in which case ignore me.
I'm sure a lot of PHers remember the days when you had a 3 door and a 5 door of exactly the same body shell. Now the variations are different enough to identify just looking at one following you in your rear view mirror (or is that just me?).
So the logical next step is to put in a little more variation and then market the 3 door under a different name. I can't help feeling this is where Ford are going with their lack of 3-door Focus. Presumably this role will be taken on by the Capri (or whatever it's called) with affodability coming from use of the Focus platform. Unless they just use the Mustang, in which case ignore me.
To my mind the Peugeot is the best looking "real world" car in recent memory. There's one parked on my road, the owner must think I'm weird because I can't walk past without staring at it. The Puma, Fiat Coupe, Alfa look good from the right angle but not so good from others, the Peugeot doesn't have a bad side.
Edited by usualdog on Tuesday 8th January 16:23
Edited by usualdog on Tuesday 8th January 16:25
kambites said:
Scrof said:
kambites said:
I think the small coupe has largely been replaced by the small coupe/cabriolet - the Tigra, etc. The market was always driven more by style than driving dynamics.
Mmm, I did think of the Renault Wind and Vauxhall Tigra when writing this - but cars like the Fiat Coupe, Puma and 200SX all had driving capability in spades, where the Wind and Tigra... well... don't. Anyway, surely scaling the Fiat Coupe up to today's money you'd be looking at Audi TT prices anyway? It was 20k in 1995! Same with the 200SX.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 8th January 12:58
Edited by sparkyhx on Tuesday 8th January 16:24
Guvernator said:
Tell you who used to make excellent fast but affordable coupes, the Japanese. In fact I'd say they were the king of them in the 80's and 90's. You had the Celica, Impreza, MR2, 200SX, 300ZX, Supra and Skyline to name but a few and then for some reason towards the end of the 90's, all the Japanese manfucaturers seemed to loose the will to live and didn't want to make them anymore. While I don't think the GT-86\BRZ is perfect, I am still really glad that Toyabaru decided to make it as perhaps it will start a well overdue revival. Coupes are just so much sexier than hatchbacks.
From memory: 90's japanese coupes sold in the UK...Honda CRX
Honda Integra
Honda Civic Coupe
Honda Prelude
Honda Accord Coupe
Mazda MX3
Mazda MX6
Mazda RX7
Mazda 626 coupe
Nissan 100NX
Nissan 200SX
Nissan 300ZX
Nissan Skyline
Suzuki X90 (shudder)
Subaru SVX
Isuzu Piazza
Mitsubishi GTO (with the FTO coming over as a grey import by the thousand).
Toyota MR2
Toyota Paseo
Toyota Celica
Toyota Supra
I liked the 90s.
Very funny.Captain Muppet said:
Guvernator said:
Tell you who used to make excellent fast but affordable coupes, the Japanese. In fact I'd say they were the king of them in the 80's and 90's. You had the Celica, Impreza, MR2, 200SX, 300ZX, Supra and Skyline to name but a few and then for some reason towards the end of the 90's, all the Japanese manfucaturers seemed to loose the will to live and didn't want to make them anymore. While I don't think the GT-86\BRZ is perfect, I am still really glad that Toyabaru decided to make it as perhaps it will start a well overdue revival. Coupes are just so much sexier than hatchbacks.
From memory: 90's japanese coupes sold in the UK...Honda CRX
Honda Integra
Honda Civic Coupe
Honda Prelude
Honda Accord Coupe
Mazda MX3
Mazda MX6
Mazda RX7
Mazda 626 coupe
Nissan 100NX
Nissan 200SX
Nissan 300ZX
Nissan Skyline
Suzuki X90 (shudder)
Subaru SVX
Isuzu Piazza
Mitsubishi GTO (with the FTO coming over as a grey import by the thousand).
Toyota MR2
Toyota Paseo
Toyota Celica
Toyota Supra
I liked the 90s.
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