RE: PH Blog: is Shed motoring doomed?
Discussion
I'm quite pessimistic I must admit - you only have to look at all the cars sold as spares and repairs on ebay to see there is a problem with the modern machine.
Its come to the stage that I am worried about buying a 2nd hand car, and I have HNC in motor vehicle engineering plus 30 years trade experience.
Just look at the diesel Mondeo - my sister bought an 08 car with the idea of buying something that would last - it lasted a year then, pouring out black smoke, was p/xed becsuse there is a design fault with that model that's not worth fixing
I am led to believe that the Japanese have been scrapping cars over 5 years old (or at least exporting them) for many years now.
That's the future
Its come to the stage that I am worried about buying a 2nd hand car, and I have HNC in motor vehicle engineering plus 30 years trade experience.
Just look at the diesel Mondeo - my sister bought an 08 car with the idea of buying something that would last - it lasted a year then, pouring out black smoke, was p/xed becsuse there is a design fault with that model that's not worth fixing
I am led to believe that the Japanese have been scrapping cars over 5 years old (or at least exporting them) for many years now.
That's the future
For me the turning point came with coding; it's just that additional level that takes the means of repair beyond the means of the average spanner man.
If a light goes out on an old car, check the bulb and one fuse. A newer car, the bulb and perhaps a couple of fuses. Up to the nineties now and you may have to check or swap in a light control module. Into the noughties though and whoa, stop the feckin bus, you can't just swap a module as it has to be coded in and out. Same with changing a battery, a suspension leg, brake pads and on and on and on.......
If a light goes out on an old car, check the bulb and one fuse. A newer car, the bulb and perhaps a couple of fuses. Up to the nineties now and you may have to check or swap in a light control module. Into the noughties though and whoa, stop the feckin bus, you can't just swap a module as it has to be coded in and out. Same with changing a battery, a suspension leg, brake pads and on and on and on.......
Seeing as I had to use a laptop to talk to the ECU in my A6 just to change the rear brake pads! It certainly is getting to the point where not only do you need another level of knowledge in a new field (software and computers), but you also need a whole new set of tools, ECU code reader/laptop/software etc.
The manufacturers are certainly making things alot harder to do any work on your car anywhere other than a main dealer facility. I'd be surprised if it wasn't eventually caught by some unfair trading laws.
The manufacturers are certainly making things alot harder to do any work on your car anywhere other than a main dealer facility. I'd be surprised if it wasn't eventually caught by some unfair trading laws.
Retail price is for the uninformed. Second hand is much better value. provided, service history is complete and the car has never been in an accident other than cosmetics. Me, I like the choices that second hand gives you. For £5,000 do you buy a top of the range 10 year old Mercedes coupe, a Boxster, or an Audi A8.
Can't wait for 2016 when the current crop of newbies are half price or much less.
Can't wait for 2016 when the current crop of newbies are half price or much less.
I'm restoring a 1989 Mk2 Scirocco (hardly that rare a car of it's time) and parts are becoming a problem.
Fortunately as it's Mk1 Golf based there is a good after market and enthusiast following that has meant I have found everything so far but it's not been that easy.
I went to my local breakers before Christmas and where they used to have 1,000 cars piled up 3 high there were barely two dozen as due to regulation and the value of scrap they now pretty much go straight in the crusher. As luck would have it there was a Mk2 there from which I got a bumper that I would not have got else where.
I also spoke to a local VW breakers and he told me (for the rocco) it just was not worth him keeping small parts. He would take a few bigger valuable bits and again scrap the rest.
The point is that parts will become harder and maybe impossible to find as they are more vehicle specific, less likely to be held by salvage companies and un-economic to be made by the after market.
I built a kit car which was much easier than restoring a classic and this is where future tinkerers will be able to play provided the regulation does not get even worse.
Shed may live on but not as we know it.
Fortunately as it's Mk1 Golf based there is a good after market and enthusiast following that has meant I have found everything so far but it's not been that easy.
I went to my local breakers before Christmas and where they used to have 1,000 cars piled up 3 high there were barely two dozen as due to regulation and the value of scrap they now pretty much go straight in the crusher. As luck would have it there was a Mk2 there from which I got a bumper that I would not have got else where.
I also spoke to a local VW breakers and he told me (for the rocco) it just was not worth him keeping small parts. He would take a few bigger valuable bits and again scrap the rest.
The point is that parts will become harder and maybe impossible to find as they are more vehicle specific, less likely to be held by salvage companies and un-economic to be made by the after market.
I built a kit car which was much easier than restoring a classic and this is where future tinkerers will be able to play provided the regulation does not get even worse.
Shed may live on but not as we know it.
I'll refer you to my 80 series Landcruiser, yes its a bit juicy on diesel but its 23 years old with no rust. It never lets me down in all weathers, its a second car used mainly for towing, it is/has been the cheapest car I have ever owned per annum to run when you inlude running costs. A minor service costs me 50 quid, a big one every two or three years with all the oils costs 150 quid. Tyres last 60k miles too.
Why is it so reliable? There are very few electronics on it, all those bits that contain electricity are non essential stuff like dials & windows.
The engine bay wiring is about six wires! for starter motor, water temp, oil pressure, boost gauge & fuel pump kill solenoid. That is it!! The rest of it is good old clockwork reliable mechanicals with dead easy maintenance.
It's also comfy, quite nice to drive, has cruise, heated seats etc & you just know it will always get you there & back again.
There is a very good reason they command strong money even at this age.
Why is it so reliable? There are very few electronics on it, all those bits that contain electricity are non essential stuff like dials & windows.
The engine bay wiring is about six wires! for starter motor, water temp, oil pressure, boost gauge & fuel pump kill solenoid. That is it!! The rest of it is good old clockwork reliable mechanicals with dead easy maintenance.
It's also comfy, quite nice to drive, has cruise, heated seats etc & you just know it will always get you there & back again.
There is a very good reason they command strong money even at this age.
RichTBiscuit said:
The reality is that future shedmen will continue as they always have done - buy replacement electronic black box from ebay\scrapyard and carry on their merry way.
Except the new part won't work, because its got a different firmware in it, or simply because it has a different serial number and every other ecu on the bus needs to be told about the change. This needs proprietary software to re-program.A recent story:
A gent gets a puncture, pulls to the side of the road, being correctly dressed for a business meeting he decides to call the AA to change the tyre. AA man duly appears, changes tyre and loads the damaged wheel/tyre in to the boot. The vehicle has an electric boot lid, so he presses the button to close the lid. Nothing happens. The vehicle won't start either. A quick jump start and its running, boot still will not close, so is pushed shut. AA man does a quick check and diagnoses a possible dodgy alternator as it appears it isn't charging. The reason that the boot lid will not shut is because the power management ecu is trying to conserve power, so decides it won't allow the motor to run, as it will take too much power - lighting is a higher priority.
What's happened is that whilst the car was sat by the side of the road the battery has run down by hazard/interior lights etc.
The gent takes the car to a main dealer and tells the story and also mentions that he's had to jump the car on every start since.
A technician downloads the log from the power management ecu, this tells him the start/stop times of journeys the vehicle has undertaken and the charge rate during those journeys. It would seem that the battery isn't retaining charging properly. The diagnostic software has a battery drop test which confirms the battery is defective. The alternator is fine - the AA man just checked voltage across the battery, this is not a good enough test because the power management ecu controls the charging of the battery - it may not charge at a full rate if it decides not to.
The customer is informed, the quote looks something like:
Diagnostic Labour (to get this far) - £98
Battery - £182 + VAT
1.25 hours Labour - £157
Near on £500 to change a battery then. The customer thinks this is a bit pricey, so calls halfords, who cheerfully acknowledge they can supply & fit a battery for £129 all in, so the customer informs the dealer that he'll be paying the £98 and taking the car, can they jump start it please ?
Technician at this point has to inform the customer that unless Halfords have the proprietary diagnostic/programming system to correctly set up the new battery the car will experience a breakdown.
This is because the power management ecu has been managing a failing battery, it will (if it sees fit) cut power to various things on the vehicle. If you never tell it the vehicle has a new battery (i.e. re-calibration) it'll still think its handling a failing battery.
The labour charge is to fit the battery and then run a re-calibration procedure which includes a test drive and various checks before/after.
Its not only having the kit to do the job, its also having access to the information about the various systems and understanding how they work.
The above is not an uncommon occurrence. Cars often turn up with complaints of electric boot lids or windows not working, "must be the switch" the customer says. Nothing wrong other than a duff battery. To make life easy the customer is often told that yes the switch was faulty, but whilst checking the car we also found a duff battery - we'll do the switch free of charge but there is a cost for the battery change. Its easier than having to explain how the power management ecu works and that whilst the battery will start the car its stopping the window/boot lid from working.
V8 FOU said:
kwak said:
Manufacturers trying to keep their electronics secret are the biggest threat I think.
They can't do that under the Block Exemption Regs, for once Brussels is right to demand that the manufacturers have to make themselves open to all. At some cost, of course....Crafty_ said:
Except the new part won't work, because its got a different firmware in it, or simply because it has a different serial number and every other ecu on the bus needs to be told about the change. This needs proprietary software to re-program.
Quite, and all they do is price out the little guy.
The more I read and am told about "coded" parts, the more I like my rebuilt Defender. I can rapidly see a dichotomy between second hand vehicles which are useless without comprehensive warranties and the dealer network and lower tech vehicles that can be maintained by more people at a lower price. I can imagine the second hand value of "coded" vehicles falling through the floor as owners realise what a pig in a poke they have.V8 FOU said:
kwak said:
Manufacturers trying to keep their electronics secret are the biggest threat I think.
They can't do that under the Block Exemption Regs, for once Brussels is right to demand that the manufacturers have to make themselves open to all. At some cost, of course....All of my cars are fixable with a spanner and a test light. My wife's new beetle cabriolet is more of a pain being a 2003 VAG product with a diagnostic socket and in my past experience, a wholly incompetent dealer network. The beetle has not been trouble free until it was taken out of the dealer network and given to an agricultural engineer, with a mixture of Snap-On and cheaper text gear. The "little guy" must be willing to dig out £2K for test gear or he becomes less useful than a "Jiffy-Lube", (an odd thought for rural Leicestershire).
I have been a fan of the Durable Car idea for decades, what is the last potentially Durable Car? MX5 NB, (non-UK spec, so does not have an immobiliser)? Toyota GT86, if they really release the IP necessary? www.jeremymedwards.co.uk/DurableCar
ringworm said:
Simply put...... Car makers make cars so you have to take them to an approved dealership to get repaired thus creating more money for them in parts and labour. They don't make cars for us, they make cars to make money.
That argument holds no water. Cars are built to comply with regualations and to develop the value of the brand - so reliability and reasonable maintenence costs are vital. Hence the long service interval with fully synthetic oil and other fluids. If the manufactureres just wanted to unload cheap cars to need servicing and to go wrong they could put any old rubbish in there.Car makers would be quite happy these days if their cars NEVER needed repairing. I dare say the dealers might not be too bothered either, so long as they were still selling cars. It wouldn't be very good for your local mechanic though.
RichTBiscuit said:
The difference being that future Bargeman will probably need more than a passing knowledge of diagnostics software, and a suitable laptop. It's simply new stuff to learn... no worries! 
Agree with that, but what about access to the software and documentation?The manufacturers have to give non franchised outfits access to diagnostic systems by way of some EU law, but the pricing of the genuine stuff is (at least currently) way more than the average Bargista will want to spend.
If this does not change we'll be left without the tools to do the job.
That's were the VAG stuff really is appealing, due to the efforts of Mr. Ross (VCDS)... But there's not much else reverse engineered stuff out there, or am I wrong?
Crafty_ said:
RichTBiscuit said:
The reality is that future shedmen will continue as they always have done - buy replacement electronic black box from ebay\scrapyard and carry on their merry way.
Except the new part won't work, because its got a different firmware in it, or simply because it has a different serial number and every other ecu on the bus needs to be told about the change. This needs proprietary software to re-program.A recent story:
A gent gets a puncture, pulls to the side of the road, being correctly dressed for a business meeting he decides to call the AA to change the tyre. AA man duly appears, changes tyre and loads the damaged wheel/tyre in to the boot. The vehicle has an electric boot lid, so he presses the button to close the lid. Nothing happens. The vehicle won't start either. A quick jump start and its running, boot still will not close, so is pushed shut. AA man does a quick check and diagnoses a possible dodgy alternator as it appears it isn't charging. The reason that the boot lid will not shut is because the power management ecu is trying to conserve power, so decides it won't allow the motor to run, as it will take too much power - lighting is a higher priority.
What's happened is that whilst the car was sat by the side of the road the battery has run down by hazard/interior lights etc.
The gent takes the car to a main dealer and tells the story and also mentions that he's had to jump the car on every start since.
A technician downloads the log from the power management ecu, this tells him the start/stop times of journeys the vehicle has undertaken and the charge rate during those journeys. It would seem that the battery isn't retaining charging properly. The diagnostic software has a battery drop test which confirms the battery is defective. The alternator is fine - the AA man just checked voltage across the battery, this is not a good enough test because the power management ecu controls the charging of the battery - it may not charge at a full rate if it decides not to.
The customer is informed, the quote looks something like:
Diagnostic Labour (to get this far) - £98
Battery - £182 + VAT
1.25 hours Labour - £157
Near on £500 to change a battery then. The customer thinks this is a bit pricey, so calls halfords, who cheerfully acknowledge they can supply & fit a battery for £129 all in, so the customer informs the dealer that he'll be paying the £98 and taking the car, can they jump start it please ?
Technician at this point has to inform the customer that unless Halfords have the proprietary diagnostic/programming system to correctly set up the new battery the car will experience a breakdown.
This is because the power management ecu has been managing a failing battery, it will (if it sees fit) cut power to various things on the vehicle. If you never tell it the vehicle has a new battery (i.e. re-calibration) it'll still think its handling a failing battery.
The labour charge is to fit the battery and then run a re-calibration procedure which includes a test drive and various checks before/after.
Its not only having the kit to do the job, its also having access to the information about the various systems and understanding how they work.
The above is not an uncommon occurrence. Cars often turn up with complaints of electric boot lids or windows not working, "must be the switch" the customer says. Nothing wrong other than a duff battery. To make life easy the customer is often told that yes the switch was faulty, but whilst checking the car we also found a duff battery - we'll do the switch free of charge but there is a cost for the battery change. Its easier than having to explain how the power management ecu works and that whilst the battery will start the car its stopping the window/boot lid from working.
V8 FOU said:
kwak said:
Manufacturers trying to keep their electronics secret are the biggest threat I think.
They can't do that under the Block Exemption Regs, for once Brussels is right to demand that the manufacturers have to make themselves open to all. At some cost, of course....A year or so ago the boot button on my dad's Renault Laguna III stopped working. So I tested the switch and the motor with a muiltmeter, I couldn't see anything with the parts themselves.
In the end up he took it to the local back street mechanic (He's known him for years) he couldn't really figure it out, but he has a proper diagnostic machine, and it seemed to be pointing to the body control module being at fault. But once he unplugged the computer from the car, it's boot lock started working again, and has done ever since. Whatever seemed to be problem seemed to have been cleared.
It why I like my old 106 and have kept it for so long, its put together a bit like a big Meccano set, its easy to bolt stuff on and off.
Ozzie Osmond said:
ringworm said:
Simply put...... Car makers make cars so you have to take them to an approved dealership to get repaired thus creating more money for them in parts and labour. They don't make cars for us, they make cars to make money.
That argument holds no water. Cars are built to comply with regualations and to develop the value of the brand - so reliability and reasonable maintenence costs are vital. Hence the long service interval with fully synthetic oil and other fluids. If the manufactureres just wanted to unload cheap cars to need servicing and to go wrong they could put any old rubbish in there.Car makers would be quite happy these days if their cars NEVER needed repairing. I dare say the dealers might not be too bothered either, so long as they were still selling cars. It wouldn't be very good for your local mechanic though.
I'm not saying manufacturers build in obsolescence (I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just a cynic) but it sure does them a lot of favours.
Ozzie Osmond said:
ringworm said:
Simply put...... Car makers make cars so you have to take them to an approved dealership to get repaired thus creating more money for them in parts and labour. They don't make cars for us, they make cars to make money.
That argument holds no water. Cars are built to comply with regualations and to develop the value of the brand - so reliability and reasonable maintenence costs are vital. Hence the long service interval with fully synthetic oil and other fluids. If the manufactureres just wanted to unload cheap cars to need servicing and to go wrong they could put any old rubbish in there.Car makers would be quite happy these days if their cars NEVER needed repairing. I dare say the dealers might not be too bothered either, so long as they were still selling cars. It wouldn't be very good for your local mechanic though.
Not sure how legal that last part is, but until someone tests it they're going to get away with it...and if tested they can always point to the availability of their (brand-specific) diagnostic gear for sale at a not-too-exorbitant price to independent mechanics.
jeremy996 said:
I can imagine the second hand value of "coded" vehicles falling through the floor as owners realise what a pig in a poke they have.
And that is what will change customer behaviour longer term.If residuals are crap for the 2nd hand buyer because they own it post warranty, then they won't want them, which means trade-in values for the first owner will be crap, which means people will tend to not buy them new!
I think a big problem is security though. They make stuff ever more complex to keep the car from being stolen but then those stealing cars just use more sophisticated methods.
Or mileage being stored in many on-car locations to stop them being clocked when those clocking just use more sophisticated methods.
Neither problem seems to go away much as we add complexity, or drop insurance costs, or make cars easier to keep going as they get older.
Maybe we need more innovation from manufacturers?
Dave
Just to balance out my previous post, over the past couple of weeks I've had a problem with my car headlights.
The vehicle has an automatic headlamp levelling system, when turned on the lamps run through a self check where they direct the beam and the floor and then move back to the correct driving position.
So a couple of weeks ago the offside one decides that it doesn't want to go back up and stays directed at the floor, nearside is fine. Bugger.
Use my cheapo diagnostic program to check faults - none. I look for actuation tests, none of those either.
Have a look at the parts system, the motor that moves the mechanism is available separately.
I need to test it though.
I remove the headlight from the car to have a proper look, once the bumper is out of the way I can see the front of the motor, curiously though there is no access to it, no removable back panel to get to it. I remove and re-seat the electrical connection plug. I note there is a control box on the bottom of the headlamp.
No dice, still points at the floor. Bugger.
A mate (who works for a main dealer) checks, there is no diagnostic tests or information on the levelling system. It seems they are a bit nervous of people poking about due to the high voltage components in headlights.
Another look at the parts system indicates a mysterious "repair kit" for the headlamp. This seems to consist of a plastic cover. A bit more digging by my mate finds a repair instruction that says to gain access to the motor you need to break out part of the rear of the headlamp moulding, you can then get to the motor. The repair kit cover replaces the broken out part and will screw in, has a seal, proper job.
We then have a look at the car with a proper diagnostic kit (same as a dealer has). No fault codes stored, no information on the levelling system at all, other than the ability to calibrate the rear load sensor (which was in my cheapo one). A look at the wiring diagrams don't even make it too clear what voltage/signals we should expect going to the motor. So we can't determine if its the control box or the motor.
It seems the motor being available as a spare and the repair kit are the maker's (Hella) idea. However the manufacturer doesn't seem to want to back it up with technical information for diagnosis.
The motor was £40, control box £80, new headlight (which would come "bare" but we think would include the motor) £250.
So if it went to a dealer what do you think they'd do ? probably just put another unit in it, easier and likely to get a result. My car is pretty cheap on bits - a headlmap from another model was replaced int he week, unit price ? £600. gulp.
Happily the problem on my car has resolved itself and the headlamp is now operating correctly.
We presume that for whatever reason the step position reference got out of kilter and its somehow managed to resolve itself. I have a theory on how this has happened but I can't prove it - I think turning the lights on before engine start did it.
So, even if your back street guy does spend out on manufacturer info, he still might not find out what he needed!
The vehicle has an automatic headlamp levelling system, when turned on the lamps run through a self check where they direct the beam and the floor and then move back to the correct driving position.
So a couple of weeks ago the offside one decides that it doesn't want to go back up and stays directed at the floor, nearside is fine. Bugger.
Use my cheapo diagnostic program to check faults - none. I look for actuation tests, none of those either.
Have a look at the parts system, the motor that moves the mechanism is available separately.
I need to test it though.
I remove the headlight from the car to have a proper look, once the bumper is out of the way I can see the front of the motor, curiously though there is no access to it, no removable back panel to get to it. I remove and re-seat the electrical connection plug. I note there is a control box on the bottom of the headlamp.
No dice, still points at the floor. Bugger.
A mate (who works for a main dealer) checks, there is no diagnostic tests or information on the levelling system. It seems they are a bit nervous of people poking about due to the high voltage components in headlights.
Another look at the parts system indicates a mysterious "repair kit" for the headlamp. This seems to consist of a plastic cover. A bit more digging by my mate finds a repair instruction that says to gain access to the motor you need to break out part of the rear of the headlamp moulding, you can then get to the motor. The repair kit cover replaces the broken out part and will screw in, has a seal, proper job.
We then have a look at the car with a proper diagnostic kit (same as a dealer has). No fault codes stored, no information on the levelling system at all, other than the ability to calibrate the rear load sensor (which was in my cheapo one). A look at the wiring diagrams don't even make it too clear what voltage/signals we should expect going to the motor. So we can't determine if its the control box or the motor.
It seems the motor being available as a spare and the repair kit are the maker's (Hella) idea. However the manufacturer doesn't seem to want to back it up with technical information for diagnosis.
The motor was £40, control box £80, new headlight (which would come "bare" but we think would include the motor) £250.
So if it went to a dealer what do you think they'd do ? probably just put another unit in it, easier and likely to get a result. My car is pretty cheap on bits - a headlmap from another model was replaced int he week, unit price ? £600. gulp.
Happily the problem on my car has resolved itself and the headlamp is now operating correctly.
We presume that for whatever reason the step position reference got out of kilter and its somehow managed to resolve itself. I have a theory on how this has happened but I can't prove it - I think turning the lights on before engine start did it.
So, even if your back street guy does spend out on manufacturer info, he still might not find out what he needed!
Edited by Crafty_ on Sunday 13th January 16:12
bmthnick1981 said:
W124 said:
RichTBiscuit said:
Far too pessimistic man!
People said the same things about cars like my old e38 BMW... The old barge has literally about 30 different electronic 'black boxes' to control the TV, phone, sat nav, etc etc
The reality is that future shedmen will continue as they always have done - buy replacement electronic black box from ebay\scrapyard and carry on their merry way.
In many ways fixing electronic components can easier than mechanical ones..... simply unplug and replace!
The difference being that future Bargeman will probably need more than a passing knowledge of diagnostics software, and a suitable laptop. It's simply new stuff to learn... no worries!
Absolutely. The electronic parts are just parts - supply and demand will operate as it always does for cars this side of Big Mercs and BM's. I do think, though, that really high end cars, with really rare and complex electronic units, like the Veyron or MPC/458's will be very hard to maintain. Hence the relative lack of value of 959's. Heaven only knows how anyone will keep a GTR on the road.People said the same things about cars like my old e38 BMW... The old barge has literally about 30 different electronic 'black boxes' to control the TV, phone, sat nav, etc etc
The reality is that future shedmen will continue as they always have done - buy replacement electronic black box from ebay\scrapyard and carry on their merry way.
In many ways fixing electronic components can easier than mechanical ones..... simply unplug and replace!
The difference being that future Bargeman will probably need more than a passing knowledge of diagnostics software, and a suitable laptop. It's simply new stuff to learn... no worries!
I agree with the theme in the article that many of the new gadgets being introduced by manufacturers are pointless. I dont need all of that s
t. Also agree re: the 172 Cup comments and it would be good if Dacia / Renault listened to this school of thought.
So...I think cars will rapidly become uneconomic to fix for the average man in the street, but if you've got the desire, a basic electronic and mechanical knowledge, the ability to use google plus a laptop/diagnostic software then running barges/unusual stuff will be cheaper than ever.
The trick, as alluded to earlier is to buy something old enough that the main issues are known and fixes relatively well known/available.
pajsh said:
I'm restoring a 1989 Mk2 Scirocco (hardly that rare a car of it's time) and parts are becoming a problem.
Fortunately as it's Mk1 Golf based there is a good after market and enthusiast following that has meant I have found everything so far but it's not been that easy.
I went to my local breakers before Christmas and where they used to have 1,000 cars piled up 3 high there were barely two dozen as due to regulation and the value of scrap they now pretty much go straight in the crusher. As luck would have it there was a Mk2 there from which I got a bumper that I would not have got else where.
I also spoke to a local VW breakers and he told me (for the rocco) it just was not worth him keeping small parts. He would take a few bigger valuable bits and again scrap the rest.
The point is that parts will become harder and maybe impossible to find as they are more vehicle specific, less likely to be held by salvage companies and un-economic to be made by the after market.
I built a kit car which was much easier than restoring a classic and this is where future tinkerers will be able to play provided the regulation does not get even worse.
Shed may live on but not as we know it.
Try VW for parts, I was amazed at what was still available for my 1990 GTI, though this was 3 yrs ago, reasonable prices too.Fortunately as it's Mk1 Golf based there is a good after market and enthusiast following that has meant I have found everything so far but it's not been that easy.
I went to my local breakers before Christmas and where they used to have 1,000 cars piled up 3 high there were barely two dozen as due to regulation and the value of scrap they now pretty much go straight in the crusher. As luck would have it there was a Mk2 there from which I got a bumper that I would not have got else where.
I also spoke to a local VW breakers and he told me (for the rocco) it just was not worth him keeping small parts. He would take a few bigger valuable bits and again scrap the rest.
The point is that parts will become harder and maybe impossible to find as they are more vehicle specific, less likely to be held by salvage companies and un-economic to be made by the after market.
I built a kit car which was much easier than restoring a classic and this is where future tinkerers will be able to play provided the regulation does not get even worse.
Shed may live on but not as we know it.
GBB said:
Try VW for parts, I was amazed at what was still available for my 1990 GTI, though this was 3 yrs ago, reasonable prices too.
For a few makes this can be a really good idea. BMW and Mercedes are now getting into "Heritage", so bits for older cars are now both available and not too stupidly priced. A lot of classic vehicles are also well served, so long as you are not too fussy about trim bits. Rather too many parts men are just not prepared to put some time into searching out older parts and many dealers have not reference materials past the current models. Other have a stupid centralised policy about not providing bits for grey market vehicles for "'elf & Safety" reasons, (take a bow Mazda, for being stupid beyond the call of duty). If the car is popular enough, then the parts and the knowhow is available away from the dealer network, e.g. MX5, TD5 Defender, P38 etc.
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