RE: Ringside Seat: silly season
Discussion
last October I got pulled at the barrier in my Noble M400 that has Carbon wing ends & front Carbon cannards late in the day after completed several laps throughout. After 10 minutes of them trying to tell me off like a teacher to schoolboy & not let me on a GT3 RS 4.0 pulled beside with front cannards, then shortly after by chance an Merc AMG with cannards & closely followed by a KTM Crossbow with bodywork all over the place partially stregthened my case of going on.
It was stated that the Carbon is too sharp in comparison to the Porsche, Merc & KTM's front cannards that are slightly thicker & rounded which is fair enough & agreed but without doubt any car with front cannards on etc would do similar damage if hit a biker etc at even minimal speed let alone the speed that can be attained on the Ring. Due to the said RS, AMG & KTM cars they reluctantly let me back on for the rest of the day also them stating this rule has been in force for years yet I have never been stopped previously whatsoever. I also went on next day with no problems which I was expecting.
I'll be temporarily installing rubber U channel which will bring the edge of the Carbon to a similar thickness to the RS 4.0 & AMG to the external Carbon aero mods or simply take them off in the paddock if necessary with a cordless.
It does come across a German/Austrian made car is fine but not a UK car only the pressence of the other makes of 'Cannarded' cars I was let back on.
It was stated that the Carbon is too sharp in comparison to the Porsche, Merc & KTM's front cannards that are slightly thicker & rounded which is fair enough & agreed but without doubt any car with front cannards on etc would do similar damage if hit a biker etc at even minimal speed let alone the speed that can be attained on the Ring. Due to the said RS, AMG & KTM cars they reluctantly let me back on for the rest of the day also them stating this rule has been in force for years yet I have never been stopped previously whatsoever. I also went on next day with no problems which I was expecting.
I'll be temporarily installing rubber U channel which will bring the edge of the Carbon to a similar thickness to the RS 4.0 & AMG to the external Carbon aero mods or simply take them off in the paddock if necessary with a cordless.
It does come across a German/Austrian made car is fine but not a UK car only the pressence of the other makes of 'Cannarded' cars I was let back on.
Mr_Dave said:
The ring taxi seems to love a bit of drifting action, bit close at 1:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaHHrnF-vOY
Who wanted a weight limit? @ 1:46 
davepoth said:
shaunsmith said:
It does come across a German/Austrian made car is fine but not a UK car only the pressence of the other makes of 'Cannarded' cars I was let back on.
It would probably be a case for the European Court if you had enough money.
ds!! Depends on the car too, no doubt. In a standard cabin it might only be being British that willl keep you off the track.
Add it to a car with any door intrusion bar at all and it might really make exfiltration so difficult that theyd be justified on prohibiting you (even if you were German).
Add it to a car with any door intrusion bar at all and it might really make exfiltration so difficult that theyd be justified on prohibiting you (even if you were German).
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ohtari said:
I'm more worried about the banning of HANS devices tbh. I'm doing my dissertation on them, and have dug up some unnerving info, like the fact your neck can snap in a 45mph impact!
You're basically better off with a 3 point belt and airbags than a full harness if you're not allowed a HANS!
I'm sure I'm not alone in perhaps hearing a slightly more expanded version of your findings You're basically better off with a 3 point belt and airbags than a full harness if you're not allowed a HANS!
In the company of fellow PHers, I don't think I need to explain what a HANS device is, but I think I need to clarify exactly how it works, and why it's needed. Motor racing is a dangerous sport. The high speeds and competitive nature inevitably result in accidents. As such, leaps and bounds have been made in regards to vehicle impact protection, with full roll cages and safety cells providing levels of strength unheard of in decades past. Yet the bodies of the human occupants are unchanged. Towards the end of the 20th century, accidents were occurring in which the vehicle withstood the forces involved with a high speed impact, but drivers were still getting injured and/or dying from severe spinal trauma. The type of injury associated with these deaths is known as a basal skull fracture. A driver is secured within a vehicle by a safety harness. This prevents the body from moving in the event of an impact. They are very successful, firmly holding the driver's body safely in place. Their head is not so lucky. The driver wears a crash helmet to prevent injury from blunt force impacts to the head, but it can weigh as much as 30% of the combined head and helmet. The driver's head is not restrained, and in an impact situation, the momentum of the head/helmet accelerates it in the direction of vehicle travel. The only thing to stop this is the driver's neck. The neck is actually quite good at absorbing this energy, the base of the skull where the neck joins is not so much. This part of the skull contains passage for the spinal chord, as well as major blood vessels. Because of this, this type of skull fracture is usually fatal.
Now, the 5/6 point harnesses used in racing are very strong, so strong that in a crash there is almost no give in the fabric at all. So whatever rate the car decelerates at, is the same rate as you driver. The inertial seat belts in passenger vehicles are much weaker, but designed to stretch when under load to slow the rate of deceleration. It's really the that rate that is the most important. The crash that killed Dale Earnhardt Sr at Daytona only had an initial deceleration of about 45mph in a period of 80 milliseconds. As you can imagine, it is very easy for these sorts of forces to show themselves in a high speed accident. Without some sort of neck restraint, (donuts don't count) you risk serious injury if you're harnessed in. At least with an airbag, that stops your head traveling too far forwards, but most peoples track toys don't have them.
My dissertation is actually based on side impact protection offered in neck restraints, here's the kicker, HANS doesn't offer it.
More to come...
[snip]
My dissertation is actually based on side impact protection offered in neck restraints, here's the kicker, HANS doesn't offer it.
[/snip]
That is my concern on a hans, as i do have an old injury from impacting a barrier.
The stand 21 advice was a seat with ears! Still bought a hans though
My dissertation is actually based on side impact protection offered in neck restraints, here's the kicker, HANS doesn't offer it.
[/snip]
That is my concern on a hans, as i do have an old injury from impacting a barrier.
The stand 21 advice was a seat with ears! Still bought a hans though
Surely the problem with side impact protection is head movability under normal conditions or lack there of hence "eared" seats for tin tops and high side pod single seaters.
These of course limit head movablity and visibility so the ring banning them from tf sessions where the track is legally a public road sort of makes sense. The number of "special" road cars with factory half cages probably prevents the obvious next step of banning cages in totality... Limiting sessions to car only, bike only, other only etc.. wouldn't I'd guess generate enough revenue for the owners, it however be much safer.
I suppose it would be feasible to design a HANS type system that uses more helmet mounting points with additional shoulder/collar straps to prevent/reduce lateral movement, some form of miniaturised locking retractor or webclamp being the most obvious route to providing movement under normal loads whilst still restricting it in a off ..
These of course limit head movablity and visibility so the ring banning them from tf sessions where the track is legally a public road sort of makes sense. The number of "special" road cars with factory half cages probably prevents the obvious next step of banning cages in totality... Limiting sessions to car only, bike only, other only etc.. wouldn't I'd guess generate enough revenue for the owners, it however be much safer.
I suppose it would be feasible to design a HANS type system that uses more helmet mounting points with additional shoulder/collar straps to prevent/reduce lateral movement, some form of miniaturised locking retractor or webclamp being the most obvious route to providing movement under normal loads whilst still restricting it in a off ..
To be honest, I think this is a fairly sensible move. Running almost full race cars around the ring at almost full race car speed when around the next corner you may find a coach travelling at 20mph is a bit crazy. Fun, but a bit crazy. It's a shame they didn't have the balls to do something about the crazy people in 911 GT3s, but this is a decent step IMO.
shaunsmith said:
last October I got pulled at the barrier in my Noble M400 that has Carbon wing ends & front Carbon cannards late in the day after completed several laps throughout. After 10 minutes of them trying to tell me off like a teacher to schoolboy & not let me on a GT3 RS 4.0 pulled beside with front cannards, then shortly after by chance an Merc AMG with cannards & closely followed by a KTM Crossbow with bodywork all over the place partially stregthened my case of going on.
...
It does come across a German/Austrian made car is fine but not a UK car only the pressence of the other makes of 'Cannarded' cars I was let back on.
What you have to bear in mind is that the cars that you mention come from the factory like that - i.e. are fully TUV certified as safe for use on the public roads. Anything modified with bits that are not certified OE components for something with full German type approval : isn't (unless you were to put your car through German TUV certification, which from the description it would fail). The reason that those cars are allowed on and yours isn't is that they are type approved to be safe. You either aren't, or if Noble put them on your car and type approved it in Germany: you need them to provide the appropriate document and that will get you through the gate....
It does come across a German/Austrian made car is fine but not a UK car only the pressence of the other makes of 'Cannarded' cars I was let back on.
If has nothing to do with where your car is made, it is all about the availability of paperwork...
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