RE: Ringside Seat: playing games
Discussion
Loplop said:
But racing games have taught me a lot, Forza Motorsport 2 taught me about apexes, Live For Speed in combination with my trusty 6 year old Logitech G25 taught me the joys of opposite lock and with the Historic Rally Cars mod for rFactor (A must by the way) sending me into a spin every time I got behind the virtual wheel of a Ford Escort I had to learn Heel & Toe through necessity.
Is rFactor out yet, and will there be a Historic Rallying Mod for that too?Many hours have been spent with my AMD Eyefinity / Logitech G25 setup. However even when I tried a proper simulator experience (mock F1 tub, projector, etc.), you still don't get the sensation through the wheel and seat that real life driving gives you. I've never reproduced the feeling that you get when the tread blocks are just starting to squirm under either acceleration or lateral load.
havard01 said:
Loplop said:
But racing games have taught me a lot, Forza Motorsport 2 taught me about apexes, Live For Speed in combination with my trusty 6 year old Logitech G25 taught me the joys of opposite lock and with the Historic Rally Cars mod for rFactor (A must by the way) sending me into a spin every time I got behind the virtual wheel of a Ford Escort I had to learn Heel & Toe through necessity.
Is rFactor out yet, and will there be a Historic Rallying Mod for that too?P.S: If you haven't yet, check out Project C.A.R.S. it looks absolutely stunning graphically and is being developed by Slightly Mad Studios, best known for NFS:Shift but lesser known is the fact they're mostly ex Blimey! Games employees, the people who made GTR 2 for SimBin
stephen300o said:
A fun and cheap way to get some lap time in. Someone will be along to point out that it's in no way related to real racing, even though the pros say different, These are usually club racers with delusions of grandeur. 
Indeed, these are the very people who will tell you that they read a book and their driving improved dramatically. Fair enough, but how can playing on a Driving Sim not help you? In pure basic muscle memory, you are onto a winner immediately!The best things I have gained from GT5 is the ability to learn tracks quickly, picking out braking points and pedal control.
Seriously, if you play GT5 without TCS/ABS, Powersteering off/no steering assist, full force feedback, clutch and H pattern manual it absolutely destroys you in terms of concentration!
Why? Because you don't get any sensation of force/speed, so you have to calculate it all visually. Driving a real car then becomes a wonderous experience as you have 'feeling aids' to help you!!
Public racing is always good fun and you do learn some good racecraft if you can get in a decent room. I do this primarily because I can't afford to spend £10k a year doing real racing - at least not yet!
But when I do have that black cross on my bumper, I feel i'll be a lot more prepared than not having used GT5
Comparing GT5 and Forza, Forza wins hands down every time. I remember when my original Xbox stopped working I got a "free" PS3 with a phone contract. It only took me a few weeks before I swapped it for an Xbox with Forza 3 through Gumtree. While GT5 was alright, I didn't quite get as much fun out of it as Forza.
When Forza 4 came out it was a whole lot better than 3. It's the sort of game you need to put on Hard difficult with Normal steering if you want to play it every now and then and enjoy drifting quite easily in any rwd car - as mentioned by someone earlier. I seemed to be obsessed with trying to get "Top 1%" laptimes for a while. If however you're looking for a bit of a challenge, change the difficulty to Expert and steering to Simulation. It provides quite a good challenge if you're not a geek who plays it constantly. The thing that annoys me is they want you to pay more money for all the car packs.
The recent Forza Horizon is good for messing about in an open world and I don't think they've watered down the brand at all. It was a game they flung together quickly, and although it's a bit NFS, the handling is quite similar.
When Forza 4 came out it was a whole lot better than 3. It's the sort of game you need to put on Hard difficult with Normal steering if you want to play it every now and then and enjoy drifting quite easily in any rwd car - as mentioned by someone earlier. I seemed to be obsessed with trying to get "Top 1%" laptimes for a while. If however you're looking for a bit of a challenge, change the difficulty to Expert and steering to Simulation. It provides quite a good challenge if you're not a geek who plays it constantly. The thing that annoys me is they want you to pay more money for all the car packs.
The recent Forza Horizon is good for messing about in an open world and I don't think they've watered down the brand at all. It was a game they flung together quickly, and although it's a bit NFS, the handling is quite similar.
BILL PAYER said:
So who has the best time around the Ring on GT5 and in what ? please discount the Red Bull X2010 and stick to the real cars.
I'm sure there are faster chaps, but I clocked 5:59:390 in the Audi R8 LPM car the other night which I was pretty pleased with. 7:10:526 in MP4-12C with slicks and a few tweaks last night and matched the official M3 (E92) time of 8:05:438 in bog standard form.Sure it's just a game, but with a proper sim rig it really does help with brake points and driving line. I've played iRacing and the GTR games on the PC and it's a great way to refresh your memory before a track day.
For a circuit as long and complex as the 'Ring, anyone spending a bit of time getting to know it virtually is going to be better prepared on the real thing. As already mentioned, if sim time didn't help, F1 teams wouldn't spend tens of millions on their systems.
bought a 2nd hand xbox @ xbox steering wheel 4 years ago and run Forza. Found a "racing seat" office chair on freecycle, dismantled and mounted on homemade frame, IKEA table for 21" monitor and you know, hours and hours of fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then added 2nd hand logitech surround sound kit with subwoofer....
Not quite the elegance of the gameracer outfit and nowhere near the 911 replica wheel Ive seen shots of, but it works, and has been I think a total of £150 all in :-)
Now my sons taking over I need a lock for the man cave!!!!!!
1 item frustrates me though, the views you get from all racing sims, the in cockpit view is not realistic as effectively you are always looking at 2 wheels and 2 pairs of hands???? Yet the bonnet view is also not real as its central and place at top of outside of windscreen... with a wheel you need the incockpit without the hands and wheel but with the dials and windscreen obscurring view.. please note Microsoft/Sony :-)
Not quite the elegance of the gameracer outfit and nowhere near the 911 replica wheel Ive seen shots of, but it works, and has been I think a total of £150 all in :-)
Now my sons taking over I need a lock for the man cave!!!!!!
1 item frustrates me though, the views you get from all racing sims, the in cockpit view is not realistic as effectively you are always looking at 2 wheels and 2 pairs of hands???? Yet the bonnet view is also not real as its central and place at top of outside of windscreen... with a wheel you need the incockpit without the hands and wheel but with the dials and windscreen obscurring view.. please note Microsoft/Sony :-)
Edited by powelly on Friday 25th January 13:43
I may have mentioend my love for the GT series here before. While it's flawed in many areas, it's perfect for those quick 30 minute blasts that occasionally pop up during the week.
Last weekend's Seasonal Challenge featured Compact cars and the 24h layout, and there was only one car for the job as far as I was concerned…
Last weekend's Seasonal Challenge featured Compact cars and the 24h layout, and there was only one car for the job as far as I was concerned…
I've spent many happy an hour on GT2 (many years ago now) and more recently, GT Legends from SimBin with Logitech G25, which I adore.
I would love something like GT5 but what bothers me with that and forza is the amount of time you have to put in to unlock cars. Is this still the case? I simply haven't got enought time to do this and I just want to turn on, choose car and track/course, play with set-up and go without restrictions. What's the best way to do that? Any console games allow (or have cheats) for that, or is PC better (Auto Club Revolution is one I've signed up to but my machine is not good enough)?
I would love something like GT5 but what bothers me with that and forza is the amount of time you have to put in to unlock cars. Is this still the case? I simply haven't got enought time to do this and I just want to turn on, choose car and track/course, play with set-up and go without restrictions. What's the best way to do that? Any console games allow (or have cheats) for that, or is PC better (Auto Club Revolution is one I've signed up to but my machine is not good enough)?
VladD said:
Oddball RS said:
Loplop said:
A lot of people laugh at me when I say the amount of experience I've had on racing games helps my actual driving. I'll never for one minute insinuate that even the best racing simulators give a 100% real life experience, because no matter how a simulator is you're still safe in the knowledge that if you bin it, you're not gonna die.
But racing games have taught me a lot, Forza Motorsport 2 taught me about apexes, Live For Speed in combination with my trusty 6 year old Logitech G25 taught me the joys of opposite lock and with the Historic Rally Cars mod for rFactor (A must by the way) sending me into a spin every time I got behind the virtual wheel of a Ford Escort I had to learn Heel & Toe through necessity.
When I actually started driving, the line between games and reality became far more bold and clear. Grip, the feeling of weight and inertia were chief among the differences I instantly noticed. But stuff I've 'learnt' in the virtual world can translate over into the real world, mostly my spatial awareness.
I'm itching to have a go in a proper track car at a proper track just to see how well it translates in a proper environment!
Remind me to keep away from you on the road and track then...................But racing games have taught me a lot, Forza Motorsport 2 taught me about apexes, Live For Speed in combination with my trusty 6 year old Logitech G25 taught me the joys of opposite lock and with the Historic Rally Cars mod for rFactor (A must by the way) sending me into a spin every time I got behind the virtual wheel of a Ford Escort I had to learn Heel & Toe through necessity.
When I actually started driving, the line between games and reality became far more bold and clear. Grip, the feeling of weight and inertia were chief among the differences I instantly noticed. But stuff I've 'learnt' in the virtual world can translate over into the real world, mostly my spatial awareness.
I'm itching to have a go in a proper track car at a proper track just to see how well it translates in a proper environment!
Hmmmm i think i would laugh as well to be honest, one is a game, the other is not.
Shameless plug time, please try our free to play PC game called Auto Club Revolution.
http://autoclubrevolution.com/en/
http://autoclubrevolution.com/en/
Loplop said:
A mate of mine is one of the testers for that, swears it's the best driving game he's played and I don't think it's finished yet. Here's one of his videoshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkvJvHplrM
That's on a high end gaming PC, with the logitech G27 and a Recaro out of an old Capri on a frame.
I play a bit of GT5 on the PS3 and it's okay, prefer Need for Speed Shift 2 on my PC with a wheel.
I am old for this stuff, probably the generation ahead of most of the posters on this thread. But, I absolutely loved GT5, which I had with a Gameracer set-up and a largeish TV. It might only be a game, but it really does bring out the different approaches you need to drive cars with different configurations. If you drive, back to back, something like a Cobra, an Integra and an Elise around the same circuit, the different characteristics of the cars are highlighted very well.
Also, as others said, you really do learn the circuits. At one point, i could almost talk you around the Nurburgring with my eyes closed, never mind the short tracks!
I used the past tense - loved - in the first paragraph because I have given the system to my nephew to remove the temptation. It is so addictive you start to ignore all the other things that you are supposed to be doing on the weekend..
Also, as others said, you really do learn the circuits. At one point, i could almost talk you around the Nurburgring with my eyes closed, never mind the short tracks!
I used the past tense - loved - in the first paragraph because I have given the system to my nephew to remove the temptation. It is so addictive you start to ignore all the other things that you are supposed to be doing on the weekend..
I've never had the necessary hardware to play PC driving games, but I'm a massive fan of Gran Turismo, having played all the versions since the original GT1.
GT5's physics engine is far from perfect, but as long as you don't over modify the cars and put stupidly sticky tyres on them, it can still 'feel' lovely with a decent wheel and pedals.
Most cars do tend to be very understeery stock, but this can be neutralised in most cases by upgrading the suspension and making a couple of minor adjustments to toe and camber settings. FWD cars are almost without exception rubbish, and most 4WD cars are rubbish too, mostly because GT5 doesn’t model weight transfer and lift-off oversteer properly on these drive line configurations (though you can get round it by reducing weight and then adding it back in the form of ballast). But front engined RWD can be nice and Mid-engined RWD are usually lovely (particularly NSX's and most Lotus).
Given the gaps in the physics engine, I’m not sure how much GT5 helps in real driving or racing though – at least not from a car control point of view - though it may help with lines and race craft if you have no track experience.
GT5's physics engine is far from perfect, but as long as you don't over modify the cars and put stupidly sticky tyres on them, it can still 'feel' lovely with a decent wheel and pedals.
Most cars do tend to be very understeery stock, but this can be neutralised in most cases by upgrading the suspension and making a couple of minor adjustments to toe and camber settings. FWD cars are almost without exception rubbish, and most 4WD cars are rubbish too, mostly because GT5 doesn’t model weight transfer and lift-off oversteer properly on these drive line configurations (though you can get round it by reducing weight and then adding it back in the form of ballast). But front engined RWD can be nice and Mid-engined RWD are usually lovely (particularly NSX's and most Lotus).
Given the gaps in the physics engine, I’m not sure how much GT5 helps in real driving or racing though – at least not from a car control point of view - though it may help with lines and race craft if you have no track experience.
Loplop said:
OH MY GODDDDDDZakspeed Capri, this game is getting my attention NOW!!!!!!
vdubbin said:
I may have mentioend my love for the GT series here before. While it's flawed in many areas, it's perfect for those quick 30 minute blasts that occasionally pop up during the week.
Last weekend's Seasonal Challenge featured Compact cars and the 24h layout, and there was only one car for the job as far as I was concerned…
Just the one lap then was it? Last weekend's Seasonal Challenge featured Compact cars and the 24h layout, and there was only one car for the job as far as I was concerned…
As for the thread in general, my preferred sim is rfactor with the mmg 2007 F1 mod, Logitech G25 wheel. iRacing occasionally if I fancy a different type of car.
NFS Shift 2 Unleashed is my choice when I want some fun, was never as popular as GT or Forza, but get the Legends pack and you can have a blast in a BMW Batmobile around the original Hockenheim, or a RS3100 Capri around Silverstone (circa 1975 layout). One of the few games where I like using the manual gate on my Logitech G25. Also loads of modern stuff for the young 'uns too
Edit - I've just seen some trailers for Project Cars, and it's being developed by the same guys who did NFS Shift 2. And it looks f*****g amazing...........
Edit - I've just seen some trailers for Project Cars, and it's being developed by the same guys who did NFS Shift 2. And it looks f*****g amazing...........
Edited by secretagentbloke on Friday 25th January 23:15
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