RE: PH Blog: whence the next McRae?
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
rossub said:
Almost nobody in this country watches the WRC anymore, so even if there was a McRae-esque British driver, they would never have the same impact that he did in the 90s.
Stupid EU emmissions regulations for road cars and high fuel costs have seen to that. No market for rally reps, so less manufacturers taking part.
If there's 'no market for rally reps', then maybe the cars being rallied need to change to reflect that?Stupid EU emmissions regulations for road cars and high fuel costs have seen to that. No market for rally reps, so less manufacturers taking part.
IMO the drama of rallying is at least in part in the flamboyance of the drivers and the locations in which they're competing. To a degree it doesn't really matter if the cars they're in are spaceframed silhouette monsters or hatchbacks straight off the showroom floor - it's the closeness of the championships and the spectacle of the cars taking on the stages that matter.
The era of the bellowing 4WD special may be over, but what about the new generation of hot hatches? I'd love to see things like the Abarth 500 Esseesse, Renault Clio Cup, Ford Fiesta Zetec S, Peugeot 208 GTi and so on being driven hard by Ostberg, Lattvala, Meeke et al. Tweak the cars to take on the landscape, sure, mild tuning on the engines, but crucially, keep it production-based as it was in the Seventies.
I think Elfyn Evans may be a future talent, but then he does have a rally driver dad (as per McRae) and now backing from M-Sport, so may not have to worry to much about the funding like many other youths.
I hope they can revive rallying, it definitely adds to the rich varied texture of British motorsport.
Making it cheaper and more production based would be a good start, that also applies to the BTCC and even F1.
I grew up watching McRae in the 90's - awesome, when the red mist came down he was incredible to watch, frustrating too as sometimes you just knew he was pushing his luck too far.
Nicky Grist (or any of Colins co-drivers) must've had testicals make of pure granite. Jesus - just imagine what McRae at full tilt (+ a bit!) driving as if he's on an indestructable mission from god must've felt like from the passenger seat. Bloody scary I should've thought.
Making it cheaper and more production based would be a good start, that also applies to the BTCC and even F1.
I grew up watching McRae in the 90's - awesome, when the red mist came down he was incredible to watch, frustrating too as sometimes you just knew he was pushing his luck too far.
Nicky Grist (or any of Colins co-drivers) must've had testicals make of pure granite. Jesus - just imagine what McRae at full tilt (+ a bit!) driving as if he's on an indestructable mission from god must've felt like from the passenger seat. Bloody scary I should've thought.
MrKipling43 said:
Also, come on PH, sort out the inaccuracy regarding MSA Academy.
I doubt they'll bother. The guy who wrote it clearly knows nothing about motorsport and the whole article would need rewriting to correct all the mistakes.Please, PH copywriters, if you write a couple of paragraphs on a subject that you don't know about then at least try to check your accuracy by giving it to a grown up to read first.
RINGMEISTER said:
Anybody else not think that the BRZ RA would be a fantastic tool to restart an interest in rallying. Cheap, RWD and most importantly once the appropriate mods are made it will have the look, sound and drama of a rally car people would actually want to own.
I was thinking the same thing while I was looking at it!RINGMEISTER said:
Anybody else not think that the BRZ RA would be a fantastic tool to restart an interest in rallying. Cheap, RWD and most importantly once the appropriate mods are made it will have the look, sound and drama of a rally car people would actually want to own.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...From nearly a year ago
MrKipling43 said:
There is a way out of the doldrums though. The recently-launched-on-the-quiet Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86 and the slew of similar rear-wheel-drive coupes on the market and hitting motor shows are the perfect basis for a renewed and re-invigorated World Rally Championship (if you’re not already nodding your head in agreement, go to YouTube and type in ‘Mark 2 Escort, Kris Meeke’ and you’ll get the idea). Joining them would be the Mazda MX5 (hurrah!) and, providing that Audi was willing to build a few hundred rear-wheel drive versions of its TT, we could see one of the most iconic rallying manufacturers back in the WRC. Alfa Romeo 4C, you say? Why not?
Now, I know this might seem a bit pie in the sky, but give it some thought and it makes perfect sense. Right now Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mazda, Lotus and (with a bit of artistic licence) Audi all build a road car that could compete in this new World Rally Championship with the simple addition of some lightness, a roll cage and the aforementioned sump guard, gravel tyres and nutter behind the wheel.
So there you have it. A World Rally Championship based on road cars being put miles outside their comfort zone – a test of man and machine and a true spectacle, contested in cars that you and I can not only theoretically walk into a showroom and buy, but might actually be able to afford one day. Fancy that. Most importantly of all though – sideways!
Now, I know this might seem a bit pie in the sky, but give it some thought and it makes perfect sense. Right now Subaru, Toyota, Hyundai, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mazda, Lotus and (with a bit of artistic licence) Audi all build a road car that could compete in this new World Rally Championship with the simple addition of some lightness, a roll cage and the aforementioned sump guard, gravel tyres and nutter behind the wheel.
So there you have it. A World Rally Championship based on road cars being put miles outside their comfort zone – a test of man and machine and a true spectacle, contested in cars that you and I can not only theoretically walk into a showroom and buy, but might actually be able to afford one day. Fancy that. Most importantly of all though – sideways!
Edited by MrKipling43 on Tuesday 29th January 09:15
rallycross said:
The RAC Rally was a huge spectator event long before McRae and Burns made the sport very popular in the UK.
I remember going to watch the 86 RAC with a huge field of 'big name' stars, multiple works teams across group B and group A, and the crowds were huge with Tony Pond in the Metro 6R4 running in the top 3.
This was before playstation games and dedicated Rally programs on cable/sky.
Agreed, As Chris Hoy said mcrae senior and Ari Vatenan was a huge inspiration to Colin And that only really came about by being involved with the sport rather than passively watching it on tv.I remember going to watch the 86 RAC with a huge field of 'big name' stars, multiple works teams across group B and group A, and the crowds were huge with Tony Pond in the Metro 6R4 running in the top 3.
This was before playstation games and dedicated Rally programs on cable/sky.
Yes Chris Meeke was a big momentum loss for interest in British drivers. But the key issue must me the lack of TV broadcasting. WRC coverage and the quality of the productions has been consistently limited. Maybe that's been due to all if the commercial ranglings. But what the response on twitter and the web has shown. Is how much latent passion there us in the UK for Rally. Robert Reid and the MSA are trying and there actually are some good drivers out there. Craig Breen. Elfvin Evans. Mathew Cathcart, Harry Hunt And a few more! But as said above, if its not in TV who would know!
Special stage do do a good job. Motors TV struggles to get high viewing figures. But to get people involved it needs to be aired on the main channels fir the public to find out about it.
Producers must also think hard about the content and post production to make it interesting. Hard core fans can watch cars and old style productions all day long. But for the general public it needs to be sharp, interesting and engaging.
Get these guys in TV and the sponsors will come too.
Special stage do do a good job. Motors TV struggles to get high viewing figures. But to get people involved it needs to be aired on the main channels fir the public to find out about it.
Producers must also think hard about the content and post production to make it interesting. Hard core fans can watch cars and old style productions all day long. But for the general public it needs to be sharp, interesting and engaging.
Get these guys in TV and the sponsors will come too.
Northern_Monkey said:
Craig Breen - won the WRC Academy before Evans, won the SWRC last year and has just signed a factory Peugeot deal that will see him help develop their new car. British talent is there, but it doesn't matter how good you are if the opportunities aren't there.
Gone are the days of multiple manufacturers who were prepared to gamble on a rookie driver and gone are the days of big budgets with paid drives.
Reality is the WRC is a world away from where it was when McRae and Burns were coming through. If Breen, Meeke etc has come through at a similar time, they would probably have had a better chance of breaking through.
Craig Breen is Irish not British. Going down that road is never recommendedGone are the days of multiple manufacturers who were prepared to gamble on a rookie driver and gone are the days of big budgets with paid drives.
Reality is the WRC is a world away from where it was when McRae and Burns were coming through. If Breen, Meeke etc has come through at a similar time, they would probably have had a better chance of breaking through.
I don't reckon UK health and safety will give anyone british a chance to develop their skills as rally drivers. This may also have something to do with the value of life.
Nordic countrys are raised learning this stuff and because of the kind of conditions they are forced to drive in, when it gets really rough they already have a basic understanding - us brits tend to stick to the tarmac, mainly because it is safe and it doesn't shift underneath you.
I don't know about stats but I am fairly sure there is a much greater risk of death or injury in a rally car than an F1 car, not just because of the safety of the cars, but also because in F1 you are less likely hit a stationary object - more likely another F1 car, and that's not so bad because it's moving in the same direction. On rally, you may come across the odd tree... and funnily enough they don't move much.
Want a win, hire a fin
Nordic countrys are raised learning this stuff and because of the kind of conditions they are forced to drive in, when it gets really rough they already have a basic understanding - us brits tend to stick to the tarmac, mainly because it is safe and it doesn't shift underneath you.
I don't know about stats but I am fairly sure there is a much greater risk of death or injury in a rally car than an F1 car, not just because of the safety of the cars, but also because in F1 you are less likely hit a stationary object - more likely another F1 car, and that's not so bad because it's moving in the same direction. On rally, you may come across the odd tree... and funnily enough they don't move much.
Want a win, hire a fin
To add - Top Gear showed how difficult it is to be a Co-Driver. Being able TI get the pace notes right and I the right way for the driver to understand. And keeping the timings right, is only half the job. There is so much behind the scenes that goes on. Engineering club management, marshalling etc we should shout about that too!
Hi guys and gals of piston heads !! , ive been in the motor trade since b4 i left school and did my apprentiship with two amasing guys who rallied mk 1 escorts and told me all about the fun it can be , thts the problem with this country the fun police !! Why is it that people are willing to listen to the exhaust of a lawn mower being pushed up and down and round and round a garden , but not willing to listen to a tuned exhausted say from a rally car , motorbike 2- or 4- or a quad ?? If you mention the word fun thats your lot , the rossers will be involved. There is also the matter of money , o.k you can compete in a small budget car , but no matter how good you are you will never get spotted bcoz the first time you spank it will you have enough money to repair it for the next set of stages ??
Top gear did help a bit with there show about rally cross for he price of a set of golf clubs , but they left out all the stuff of apparrell , which all has to be in date eventhough you may buy a pair of race overalls , the msa change the rules and you can no longer wear them , the same with the car set up !!
Theres my out take why we dont have a british driver as a champion any more , money , fun police , and nowhere to practice the dark art of going sideways !!
Top gear did help a bit with there show about rally cross for he price of a set of golf clubs , but they left out all the stuff of apparrell , which all has to be in date eventhough you may buy a pair of race overalls , the msa change the rules and you can no longer wear them , the same with the car set up !!
Theres my out take why we dont have a british driver as a champion any more , money , fun police , and nowhere to practice the dark art of going sideways !!
Was once again thinking about selling both my quads, buying an Ignis Sport, ripping out the back seats etc etc and heading off to the neaerest dirt road to fill my boots......
Except it's just not that simple. Overalls, helmet, Licence (how do you even get one?) I fill out a sheet of paper for my national quad licence and as if by magic it appears in the post a few days later. No health check, no test, and about £50 for the year. Entries for my quad are about £40 a race, god only knows what that would be for a rally.
I love to race, but I'd give up quadding in a heartbeat for something like this:
But despite making an appearance at Pikes Peak at the end of last year, it's gone slightly quiet. If you could fit a mini in the back of a transit then I'd even consider that, because I know you can do that with a formula cross vehicle. RWD, fixed rear axle, single cylinder engine, easy to work on, what's not to like?
Except it's just not that simple. Overalls, helmet, Licence (how do you even get one?) I fill out a sheet of paper for my national quad licence and as if by magic it appears in the post a few days later. No health check, no test, and about £50 for the year. Entries for my quad are about £40 a race, god only knows what that would be for a rally.
I love to race, but I'd give up quadding in a heartbeat for something like this:
But despite making an appearance at Pikes Peak at the end of last year, it's gone slightly quiet. If you could fit a mini in the back of a transit then I'd even consider that, because I know you can do that with a formula cross vehicle. RWD, fixed rear axle, single cylinder engine, easy to work on, what's not to like?
I think what would revive rallying is to go back to the Group A days. Colin McRae's World Championship winning Impreza visually looked identical to the same car your dad drove. Yes it was different underneath but visually that's what mattered. Same with the Evo and Escort Cosworth, all identical appearance to their road counterparts.
I think this would help both manufacturers and the WRC alike. I can guarantee that most Impreza 2000 Turbo's were sold on the back of their WRC program. I know for sure that's why my old man had one.
The modern day Fiesta / Polo / DS3 don't excite me as they look NOTHING like their road going counterparts. You can't buy a turbocharged 4WD version of any of those cars.
Things need to change. /rant over
I think this would help both manufacturers and the WRC alike. I can guarantee that most Impreza 2000 Turbo's were sold on the back of their WRC program. I know for sure that's why my old man had one.
The modern day Fiesta / Polo / DS3 don't excite me as they look NOTHING like their road going counterparts. You can't buy a turbocharged 4WD version of any of those cars.
Things need to change. /rant over
Obviously I am a little biased being the British Rally Championship press officer, but we have tried to address the issues of cost and competitiveness. It has never been cheaper to win the BRC. As an example the budget for the 2012 champion Keith Cronin was around £70k. Back in 2002, it cost Peugeot Sport £850k to run two 206 Super 1600 cars.
Sadly the 4WD days are gone. Subaru will not sell the new Impreza in the UK and Mitsubishi will not make an Evo 11 so group N is dead. S2000 and WRC cars are unsustainable in National championships at £300k ish. Hence the decision to move to production-based 2WD cars.
I think the results are quite good.
We have also provided the training ground for future world champions. And although the step up to WRC is massive (not our doing), Craig Breen and Elfyn Evans are both World Champions (WRC Academy), as is Louise Cook (PWRC).
Judge for yourselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO90D0Dswsw
Who says front wheel drive cars don't go sideways..?
Sadly the 4WD days are gone. Subaru will not sell the new Impreza in the UK and Mitsubishi will not make an Evo 11 so group N is dead. S2000 and WRC cars are unsustainable in National championships at £300k ish. Hence the decision to move to production-based 2WD cars.
I think the results are quite good.
We have also provided the training ground for future world champions. And although the step up to WRC is massive (not our doing), Craig Breen and Elfyn Evans are both World Champions (WRC Academy), as is Louise Cook (PWRC).
Judge for yourselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO90D0Dswsw
Who says front wheel drive cars don't go sideways..?
Edited by Simon Moss on Monday 11th February 16:55
Edited by Simon Moss on Monday 11th February 16:59
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