RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!

[Rsmatt]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Being a freelance hack reviewing cars I don't see how you can call a free reving engine like the 1m's with the kick in the pants of the turbos as meh!

And chap I'm far from desperate, however I would like to read some of your insights into performance cars of the day! What publications might I find your reviews just as a matter of interest?

[ChrisBuer]

cpufreak said:

you've not driven an E92 m3 long enough or hard enough though.

the magic in the engine is from 7500->8400 rpm. It's simply incredible.

With respect I have. My father owned a blue E92 Competition pack car for a couple of years that I drove a number if times. It was a nice car, don't get me wrong, but I never saw the point of revving it like a lunatic when say, overtaking cars. I'd much rather have low down torque to slug me past without looking as if I'm trying.

I can see the attraction on the track of a high revving car, but not the road. Although its slightly unfair as my 1M is mapped, but power wise its close to an M3 now; 430bhp (my 1M) verses 414bhp of the M3. However where the M3 produces 295 lb.ft torque from what, 3500rpm? My 1M produces 480 lb.ft from around 2100rpm. Throw in 26mpg verses the 16-18mpg that my father was seeing from his M3 and the fact that there are only 450 1M's and it was a no brainer for me. I couldn't buy the M3 purely on its engine sound alone.

Having said all this, some people still don't care and will just buy the M3 for it's engine. And you know what, huge respect to them for doing so

Oh as a last aside, I agree the M3 sounds nice but a friend if mine fired up his completely stock Aston AMV8 and my god....now THAT is a noise!!!!!

[mrdemon]

Ferrari see it different with no manual cars available.
The 991 seems to have PDK sales for 90% of cars also.

As f1 and most race cars have also gone this way, I am staring to feel the need to buy one to try long term
(Ex CSL owner with smg a side)

Even the new GT3 it seems will be PDK.

They are so much quicker saving 1/3 of a second every gear change , to keep up it seems you need, dsg, dct, PDK or lose the traffic light gp :-)

Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 29th January 22:52

[MattCSLnut]

johnnywb said:

The SMG box is 10 years old and is very old tech by comparison to the newer stuff.

As a CSL owner, i think the SMG box suits the character of the car.

As for the brakes, almost every owner i know upgrades them anyway!

As a fellow CSL owner I have to agree with Johnny (well I would, wouldn't I ) regarding the SMG box suiting the character of the CSL, especially on Track for which the CSL was design for.

Not many CSLs left out there with the single piston wrongness that BMW described as brakes Most have AP Racing/BREMBO/Alcon BBKs to address this issue.

As for the CSL that Dale drove, it might have had the beginnings of SMG pump failure to boil it's fluids and misbehave like he described as it's certainly not a very common SMG behaviour, especially in any of the CSLs that I know off that reside on the CSLRegister.
Real pity as it's left him with a lesser impression of a great car and a distinctive dislike for the SMG box however I fully respect his preference for the none sequential, OldSkool, Manual gearbox

[Mastodon2]

ChrisBuer said:

but I never saw the point of revving it like a lunatic when say, overtaking cars. I'd much rather have low down torque to slug me past without looking as if I'm trying.

I hear BMW make some great diesels these days.

[MattCSLnut]

0836whimper said:

I'm really struggling with that dull CSL pic with the wrong wheels on.

Here's a better one.

That's much better... THANX ! Here's another.

[mlhj83]

ChrisBuer said:

but I never saw the point of revving it like a lunatic when say, overtaking cars. I'd much rather have low down torque to slug me past without looking as if I'm trying.

Just to add.

The 1M is a great car.

But saying that revving a purpose built high revving NA is lunacy on the road is like calling all the GT3s, RSs, Ferraris, Lambos etc. pointless. Low down torque or high rpm power, either one works, it's just a matter of preference. My M3 copes very well with the most demanding of roads with all the other 1Ms on our trips (including going airborne sideways), which you may have seen on Bimmerpost and Aussie's Polar Bear thread. Thumbs up for 2 great M-cars - both have their respective deficiencies and merits in terms of performance.

Edited by mlhj83 on Tuesday 29th January 23:21

[Rsmatt]

I don't see why both n/a engines like the m3 and turbo engines like the 1m's can't both be appreciated both are fantastic in there own right and make the cars a joy to drive in different ways perhaps but none the less great fun why if you like one you have to belittle the other is beyond me!
Which is probably what I should have said in the first place.

[NDNDNDND]

CSLmarson said:

NDNDNDND said:

The skill? The challenge perhaps? The fun? Because it's more rewarding?

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

you my friend are an idiot,

go play in your nova.

I don't have a nova

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66aFd7dyqso

[mlhj83]

Rsmatt said:

I don't see why both n/a engines like the m3 and turbo engines like the 1m's can't both be appreciated both are fantastic in there own right and make the cars a joy to drive in different ways perhaps but none the less great fun why if you like one you have to belittle the other is beyond me!
Which is probably what I should have said in the first place.

1Ms and M3 having sexy time together

[Rsmatt]

mlhj83 said:

1Ms and M3 having sexy time together

Oh yes

[hmanuk]

It's funny how people get all argumentative about the engines in M cars nowadays. Yes traditionally M cars have all been NA units over the years but surely a good M car is about how it handles and feels on the road, not forgetting the sense of occasion it delivers.

I have a 1M and enjoy driving it very much. I regard it as a modern M car with a bit of old school engineered into it.

[Baryonyx]

hmanuk said:

It's funny how people get all argumentative about the engines in M cars nowadays. Yes traditionally M cars have all been NA units over the years but surely a good M car is about how it handles and feels on the road

The engine is an integral part of the car. It's not enough for an M car to just handle well, IMO. It has to have a great engine. The old M car engines were triumphs. Absolutely stunning, high revving N/A screamers. Sadly, EU bureaucracy has put paid to those sorts of engines. A big part of the attachment to the old M cars is that they were stunning and did not compromise to achieve their goals. Now, they're using forced induction. The purity of the old cars is gone, for better or worse. Many drivers enjoy N/A engines, especially driving enthusiasts who love a sharp throttle and a powerband that is high in the rev range.

[Slippydiff]

NDNDNDND said:

CSLmarson said:

NDNDNDND said:

The skill? The challenge perhaps? The fun? Because it's more rewarding?

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

you my friend are an idiot,

go play in your nova.

I don't have a nova

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66aFd7dyqso

Good for you mate, at least you're out there actually doing it unlike many on here

BUT perhaps research your topic before posting stuff like the above, and your comments concerning just what a SMG 'box is and how it works. Then other contributors to the thread won't have to respond as robustly next time

[hmanuk]

Baryonyx said:

The engine is an integral part of the car. It's not enough for an M car to just handle well, IMO. It has to have a great engine. The old M car engines were triumphs. Absolutely stunning, high revving N/A screamers. Sadly, EU bureaucracy has put paid to those sorts of engines. A big part of the attachment to the old M cars is that they were stunning and did not compromise to achieve their goals. Now, they're using forced induction. The purity of the old cars is gone, for better or worse. Many drivers enjoy N/A engines, especially driving enthusiasts who love a sharp throttle and a powerband that is high in the rev range.

Yes I agree, but surely the new breed of forced inducted units are great in many ways too!

[g3org3y]

Shame this has turned into an argument with name calling. "OMG, you have a different opinion, you must be WRONG!!"

Why can't it just be accepted that some people prefer manuals whereas others enjoy the new SMG/DCT boxes?

I think one of the issues is this (false) perception (or rather claim) that you aren't a 'proper' enthusiast unless you have/prefer the 3 peddles. That's only going to get peoples' backs up isn't it?

[enduroboy]

em177 said:

Will be track tyres on the wheels shown I'd imagine.

???? csl comes as standard with pilot sport cup tyres

[Leins]

enduroboy said:

???? csl comes as standard with pilot sport cup tyres

Mine originally came without Cups, but was on 19" M3 wheels from the factory. It was also delimited

Edited by Leins on Wednesday 30th January 02:41

[mlhj83]

g3org3y said:

Shame this has turned into an argument with name calling. "OMG, you have a different opinion, you must be WRONG!!"

Why can't it just be accepted that some people prefer manuals whereas others enjoy the new SMG/DCT boxes?

I think one of the issues is this (false) perception (or rather claim) that you aren't a 'proper' enthusiast unless you have/prefer the 3 peddles. That's only going to get peoples' backs up isn't it?

I agree. Both manual and robotised manual transmissions involve the driver in different ways. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. What's important is that the transmission being used is of a good quality. Same thing applies to engine types; what matters is that the engine has been properly engineered and works well. Automation does not automatcally mean devoid of interaction. Engineering progress is to be embraced. We are lucky to have so many great cars to chose from. If you like cranking your own engine instead of using push start, then so be it.

[Leins]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But that maintains that the preference for a particular type of gearbox is solely down to the driver, not taking into account the car. I like manuals in some cars, autos in others, and SMG in the CSL. This thread has strayed into a territory where everyone seems to be getting pigeonholed as one type only