RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!
Discussion
German said:
That isn't what I said, you'll also note I said I like the CSL. A lot. I would suspect just about all CSL owners can drive and enjoy driving manual, it isn't the sort of car your general numpty with a checkbook buys, they all ended up with M3 SMG cabrios. Just about all are enthusiast owned. Someone posted a ways back about never going back from DSG, and hating manual, which to me implies someone with a lack of interest in cars/driving as a whole. Please re-read both comments, really wasn't what i was saying.
OK fair enough German said:
Any particular reason? Or did you also fail to read all of my post and the post it was replying to and assume I was bashing the CSL, when in fact I was grumpy at someone implying a manual transmission is pointless?
Touchy lot you CSL boys arent you. BURN THE MANUAL LOVER!!
Just because we appreciate the role that SMG plays in the whole CSL experience, it doesn't mean that we're manual transmission haters. Far from it, many owners also have manual cars, and not just for doing the boring stuffTouchy lot you CSL boys arent you. BURN THE MANUAL LOVER!!
rtg0616 said:
Isn't it incredible that this car with "no history" has got to be one of the most talked about cars on Pistonheads? We must be up to 160 comments by now, which seems odd, seeing as the 1M is not a proper M car nor a threat to the M3/CSL!
We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a s
te about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.
Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdO4epI7oyg @ 14 seconds . . . . We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a s
te about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
rtg0616 said:
Isn't it incredible that this car with "no history" has got to be one of the most talked about cars on Pistonheads? We must be up to 160 comments by now, which seems odd, seeing as the 1M is not a proper M car nor a threat to the M3/CSL!
We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a ste about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.
Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
i thought the artice was discussing the best M3 being the 1M. Clearly the general concencus is that its between the 1M and CSL,and the most divisive part of the CSL is the gearbox. hence the great discussion unfurling infront of us We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a s
te about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
Mr Whippy said:
If you want grunt for daily use buy the diesel one.
This is the issue, people buying unsuitable cars for their needs.
I'll buy an M, I want a sports car, but I don't want to rev it?!
For daily use even the 'revvy' V8 M3 is a power house. You can be ambling along in 5th or 6th at 30mph and be pushing along the general stream of traffic with partial or full throttle.
Even in my low powered Z4 I can be ambling in 5th/6th going for a 40mpg trip computer run and not be holding traffic up, and usually limited by others around me.
Tie in all this grunt too, with DCT gearboxes that can change seamlessly, and you wonder why it's such a task to rev or have to rev to access power for extremely brisk acceleration?
Dave
Diesels aren't that much fun though are they? Basically I want to have my cake and eat it. I want wallops of low down torque and a red line higher than 4000rpm This is the issue, people buying unsuitable cars for their needs.
I'll buy an M, I want a sports car, but I don't want to rev it?!
For daily use even the 'revvy' V8 M3 is a power house. You can be ambling along in 5th or 6th at 30mph and be pushing along the general stream of traffic with partial or full throttle.
Even in my low powered Z4 I can be ambling in 5th/6th going for a 40mpg trip computer run and not be holding traffic up, and usually limited by others around me.
Tie in all this grunt too, with DCT gearboxes that can change seamlessly, and you wonder why it's such a task to rev or have to rev to access power for extremely brisk acceleration?
Dave
Just for an example, my 1M revs to about 7200rpm, but I have peak torque (circa 480 lb.ft) between 2000-4500rpm. In fact it's still producing 350 lb.ft torque at around 6000rpm. My max power (430bhp) is being made at around 6400rpm, so there is a case for me to rev the car. However with all that torque on tap, I don't need to if I don't feel like it. This makes for a very quick "real world" car that is also fun on track if you want to rev it.
It's never going to sound like a V8 M3 and I can really can see the attraction in accelerating hard in an M3 (with DCT). Listening to it rev to over 8000rpm, then seamlessly change to the next gear without a jolt and watching the speed to increase further and further to a glorious V8 howl.....I get all of that. However, for 99% of the time on the public roads, I like the fact that I have very accessible power pretty much from tick-over. Add that to the "feel" of the car when you show it a series of bends and it really is a lot of fun.
Anyway, I've spent too much time on this thread, think it's time to go out for a drive......
I wonder how many opinions on the SMG in the CSL are formed by people actually using the car on the road quite a lot? You know, actually driving one about, going to the shops, then to work, then on the track and so on? And no, a short blast or even a day in one doesn't count. I admit they're fickle things that you get to learn, but the SMG also learns about you too.
Hands up everybody.
Hands up everybody.
.
Some " Keyboard Heros " don't understand the concept of a spell checker Lesa.Dale Lomas said:
Wow, some great reading on this thread, and the photos of the 1Ms up north? Inspirational. Must have been quite a day!
I see some tongue-in-cheek banter getting misinterpreted though...
You forgot the lone M3 in the group I see some tongue-in-cheek banter getting misinterpreted though...
. First photo is at the Isle of Man and the second is from Wales
rtg0616 said:
Isn't it incredible that this car with "no history" has got to be one of the most talked about cars on Pistonheads? We must be up to 160 comments by now, which seems odd, seeing as the 1M is not a proper M car nor a threat to the M3/CSL!
We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a ste about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.
Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
Yes it's amazing woooo!We've got people making assumptions based on no experience of driving or having seen one in the flesh. This is based on a blog about the 1M, so why would we give a s
te about the CSL or flappy paddle gearboxes? Infact why don't you people harping on about the merits of computer controlled gearboxes, take your flappy paddles and ps off to your own "Lets have an argument about gear boxes" forum.Why not leave peole who appreciate great cars and have an opinion on the 1M have their say, whether they like it or not, and stop hijacking this thread, with your pathetic nonsense.
I personally couldn't give a crap if the engine was produced by Reliant, whether it's NA or it has 8 turbos, it doesn't matter, it will still keep pace with an M3!!
I think it's great that it's stealing the limelight, clearly this is a car that divides opinion, but let's face it, it will be a car that people will still be talking about in the next 30 years because it's fantastic, whether people consider it an M car or not.
The CSL is still a great car though...
If I had the option of the two right now for a last gallon of petrol drive, I'd take the CSL.
That is relevant in my view.
I love the 1M for lots of reasons, but the negatives towards the CSL because of it's gearbox just seem cretinous and completely missing the point, just like you have missed the point of people with those feelings!
Dave
ChrisBuer said:
Mr Whippy said:
If you want grunt for daily use buy the diesel one.
This is the issue, people buying unsuitable cars for their needs.
I'll buy an M, I want a sports car, but I don't want to rev it?!
For daily use even the 'revvy' V8 M3 is a power house. You can be ambling along in 5th or 6th at 30mph and be pushing along the general stream of traffic with partial or full throttle.
Even in my low powered Z4 I can be ambling in 5th/6th going for a 40mpg trip computer run and not be holding traffic up, and usually limited by others around me.
Tie in all this grunt too, with DCT gearboxes that can change seamlessly, and you wonder why it's such a task to rev or have to rev to access power for extremely brisk acceleration?
Dave
Diesels aren't that much fun though are they? Basically I want to have my cake and eat it. I want wallops of low down torque and a red line higher than 4000rpm This is the issue, people buying unsuitable cars for their needs.
I'll buy an M, I want a sports car, but I don't want to rev it?!
For daily use even the 'revvy' V8 M3 is a power house. You can be ambling along in 5th or 6th at 30mph and be pushing along the general stream of traffic with partial or full throttle.
Even in my low powered Z4 I can be ambling in 5th/6th going for a 40mpg trip computer run and not be holding traffic up, and usually limited by others around me.
Tie in all this grunt too, with DCT gearboxes that can change seamlessly, and you wonder why it's such a task to rev or have to rev to access power for extremely brisk acceleration?
Dave
Just for an example, my 1M revs to about 7200rpm, but I have peak torque (circa 480 lb.ft) between 2000-4500rpm. In fact it's still producing 350 lb.ft torque at around 6000rpm. My max power (430bhp) is being made at around 6400rpm, so there is a case for me to rev the car. However with all that torque on tap, I don't need to if I don't feel like it. This makes for a very quick "real world" car that is also fun on track if you want to rev it.
It's never going to sound like a V8 M3 and I can really can see the attraction in accelerating hard in an M3 (with DCT). Listening to it rev to over 8000rpm, then seamlessly change to the next gear without a jolt and watching the speed to increase further and further to a glorious V8 howl.....I get all of that. However, for 99% of the time on the public roads, I like the fact that I have very accessible power pretty much from tick-over. Add that to the "feel" of the car when you show it a series of bends and it really is a lot of fun.
Anyway, I've spent too much time on this thread, think it's time to go out for a drive......
I thought it was about 80bhp less than that?
Dave
ChrisBuer said:
Diesels aren't that much fun though are they? Basically I want to have my cake and eat it. I want wallops of low down torque and a red line higher than 4000rpm
Same here. My first love is probably cars with a really high powerband. I love things that need work to get them moving. It gives you a thrill, to work the machine that way. Most sloppy diesel drivers would never get that, they just want to mash their soggy throttle in top gear and let the turbo slowly spool and do the work for them. That said, my daily driver is a V8 petrol. I love the fact that it can provide shove from any rpm in any gear, but unlike some smoke blowing diesel, it carries on giving you that rush. Nay, it positively builds as you hold the throttle open, crescendoing high in the rev range where it feels positively fast. The autobox clicks up a gear and you're seamlessly delivered yet more thrust. It also sounds fantastic as you go.
Someone said to me about it "it's nice, but it's a shame they didn't do a diesel in this one". His argument was that there were 'bagz of torgue' to be had in a diesel engine that would help the big car to accelerate quickly. He changed his mind after going in the car though. A criticism I have shockingly heard levelled at big displacement petrol luxury cars on this website is that they should be 'effortless' and that having to rev them to really get them shifting is uncouth. If you have problems with revving a V8 to the redline, I am guessing you were looking for mumsnet and ended up here by mistake.
Pookster said:
I wonder how many opinions on the SMG in the CSL are formed by people actually using the car on the road quite a lot? You know, actually driving one about, going to the shops, then to work, then on the track and so on? And no, a short blast or even a day in one doesn't count. I admit they're fickle things that you get to learn, but the SMG also learns about you too.
Hands up everybody.
It seems the SMG gearbox in the CSL is almost as misunderstood as the M3 CSL itself, especially by the inexperienced and the uninitiated.Hands up everybody.
As you rightly point out you have to own and drive one in every conceivable situation for a few good months to really appreciate it as a complete package.
Some 20 K miles in mine in the last 3+ years and I practically lived in it for the first 6 months, despite the CSL being my "other" weekend car from the start.
For the record I like a good old Manual, especially a BMW Manual gearbox (I've owned a few) however BMW didn't give us the choice with the CSL and I'm sure they had a good reason for that.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is my post of the week so far.I have to say I tend to prefer my aspiration natural rather than forced, although I can see the attraction of the latter in certain applications (provided its all consensual you understand).
I still wonder if we will see any M-Cars served at atmospheric pressure in the future at all, never mind being fluent in Spanish (I like to make the effort to deliver smooth and well timed shifts but this sentence doesn't make sense to me either).
<--- Still wants an S38B38 in his life.
E46 M3 (Manual), Coilovers, Brake upgrade, £360 k&n induction kit, Supersprint backbox (race) = Heaven! 70k miles in and still in love. Just bought an E60 M5 for work and the SMG is fine for everyday if a little awkward at low speeds, it is however no where near as much fun as a manual hence why my CSL got sold very quickly and replaced with a "normal" E46 M3. I really like the idea of a 1M but can't find a role for it given the other cars I have.
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