RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!

[Mr Whippy]

What is with the SMG bashing?

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?


I honestly think some writers just talk out of their bottoms for something to say, rather than actually having something constructive to say.


What is wrong with it? Too slow? Too harsh? Makes you fingers ache? What?


Tell us, rather than just perpetuate nonsense.

Dave

[Baryonyx]

Mr Whippy said:

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

Once again someone misses the charm of a manual. Why bother with the delicate act of balancing the pedals, a deft throw of the shifter, the tactile response of really driving the car when you can just click a button and let the car do it for you. Right?

[GroundEffect]

Baryonyx said:

Mr Whippy said:

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

Once again someone misses the charm of a manual. Why bother with the delicate act of balancing the pedals, a deft throw of the shifter, the tactile response of really driving the car when you can just click a button and let the car do it for you. Right?

There are some advantages to driving a manual for 'feeling part of the deal'...but what about those quick short-shifts out of tight corners? Where you'd rather have 2 hands on the wheel?

Or that quick upshift between two long, opening bends?

[BlackPrince]

Mermaid said:

The only turbo charged car in that group, and also the only manual?

Now imagine the new M4 with a manual box, though DCt will also be awesome. New M5 a lot better than the old E60.

It's the turbos.

Is it though? I haven't driven any M5 but most car journos said that yes while the new one is quicker and has a better gearbox than the old one, the E60 was a lot more charismatic than the M5. 5 years from now, once the novelty of the new F10 has worn off, I know I'd rather have a secondhand E60 than F10.

[excel monkey]

roystinho said:

Hate the fact the 1M is so good as doubt it will ever fall into my price bracket.

If you're patient enough, the 1M should get cheap enough.

E36 M3 prices went pretty low, and common consensus on this site is that the E46 M3 will follow.

Sadly the maintenance/insurance is unlikely to get cheaper with age...

[Mr Whippy]

Baryonyx said:

Mr Whippy said:

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

Once again someone misses the charm of a manual. Why bother with the delicate act of balancing the pedals, a deft throw of the shifter, the tactile response of really driving the car when you can just click a button and let the car do it for you. Right?

I agree, but the CSL was a track car.

You can't be critical of it for being a track focussed car.

It's been judged oddly in my view, I'd love to know the technical and perceptual reasons why it's not liked.


Yes yes, a manual would have gone down a treat, but if you assume track times were your focus then the SMG is better. Imo the whole CSL package makes sense to me. It's a massive event being in one. In my view the M3 is very undesirable after a run out in a CSL. The gearbox is all part of that... just like a 360 CS makes the standard F360 feel a bit, well, normal.

Hmmmm

Dave

[Baryonyx]

GroundEffect said:

There are some advantages to driving a manual for 'feeling part of the deal'...but what about those quick short-shifts out of tight corners? Where you'd rather have 2 hands on the wheel?

Or that quick upshift between two long, opening bends?

You may be slightly faster with some electronic wizardry massaging your skills, but where is the fun in that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ieRNmgxiA

This is where it's at. Not clicking a button, but really driving.

[Mermaid]

BlackPrince said:

Is it though? I haven't driven any M5 but most car journos said that yes while the new one is quicker and has a better gearbox than the old one, the E60 was a lot more charismatic than the M5. 5 years from now, once the novelty of the new F10 has worn off, I know I'd rather have a secondhand E60 than F10.

PH driving God CH's view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...

E60 in 5 years will be damn good value (circa £10k), just make sure you have a BMW warranty

[D200]

The US Market had manual E46 CSL’s

And it’s not that hard or costly to stick a manual box into a CSL, comparatively speaking and based on the value of the car.

Lots for sale seem to have the AP Brake upgrade; this is pretty common and solves the braking issues. When the car needs new brakes – just upgrade them.

Neither of these will affect resale value and probable increase it, definitely the brakes. With the gearbox keep the old one too incase it ends up being hard to sell with a manual box fitted.

Personally I would still take a 1M over one – very close call but the 1M just shades it

[NDNDNDND]

GroundEffect said:

Baryonyx said:

Mr Whippy said:

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

Once again someone misses the charm of a manual. Why bother with the delicate act of balancing the pedals, a deft throw of the shifter, the tactile response of really driving the car when you can just click a button and let the car do it for you. Right?

There are some advantages to driving a manual for 'feeling part of the deal'...but what about those quick short-shifts out of tight corners? Where you'd rather have 2 hands on the wheel?

Or that quick upshift between two long, opening bends?

The skill? The challenge perhaps? The fun? Because it's more rewarding?

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

[B10]

I hope that the forthcoming 2 series will product a good sucessor to the 1M in the guise of an M2.

[Mermaid]

D200 said:

The US Market had manual E46 CSL’s

And it’s not that hard or costly to stick a manual box into a CSL, comparatively speaking and based on the value of the car.

US market did not sell CSL's, only CS's.

With all this chatter about how bad the SMG box is, do you know of anyone who has switched to a manual box?

[Lazygraduate]

NDNDNDND said:

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

Really...? I think that's a bit of a silly thing to say, don't you?

Out of interest, have you ever driven the type of 'flappy-paddle' cars being discussed here?

[Cheib]

D200 said:

The US Market had manual E46 CSL’s

And it’s not that hard or costly to stick a manual box into a CSL, comparatively speaking and based on the value of the car.

You sure the US had manual CSL's ?!?! IIRC they didn't even get the SMG version

[SimonSaid]

Agree with the author - 1M every time. Reminds me of the E30 M3 in styling as well as dimensions. That mean, fat, short-wheelbase stance just looks the biz, especially IRL (only saw one once but totally in love). This is all getting a bit 'Boxster VS 911', and the same sort of arguments pop up. And as with that, the 'cheaper' model is the one I'd have, even if money were no object.

[NDNDNDND]

Lazygraduate said:

NDNDNDND said:

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

Really...? I think that's a bit of a silly thing to say, don't you?

Out of interest, have you ever driven the type of 'flappy-paddle' cars being discussed here?

Yeah, alright - I haven't driven a flappy-paddle car. But it's basically an automatic, right?

I just love heel-and-toeing and can't imagine driving a car without a clutch. I'd be bored. Sure, on a track going 'click-click-click' is faster, but I don't drive on a track very often, and when I do I like the challenge of heel-and-toeing there too. I'm not chasing laptimes.

From what I've heard, the long-term ownership of a flappy-paddle gets rather boring. It takes no skill or challenge to drive, whereas an daily commute in a manual gives you something to do. It's a skill to finesse and enjoy.

[upsidedownmark]

Mr Whippy said:

What is with the SMG bashing?

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

...

What is wrong with it? Too slow? Too harsh? Makes you fingers ache? What?


Tell us, rather than just perpetuate nonsense.

Dave

Well... I've not driven a CS*L*, but my mates's SMG CS ('06) on track (and it may not be the same box, so possibly irrelevant) - In track mode the shift is brutal. Mechanical sympathy aside, it upsets the car sufficiently I'd not change mid corner etc. The shift isn't *that* fast either, in the same order of time as a manual shift; I was left with the impression it banged things around to 'create drama' as much as anything.

I suspect the CSL is 'super fast' despite, not because of the box.

For him it's brilliant as he can't use a conventional box, and as has been mentioned, it's now 'old' technology, but as you asked..

[edit to add]
No NDNDNDND - it's not basically an automatic (assuming that's an honest question) - mechanically it's a manual box, but actuated by a computer (i.e. no slushy torque converters etc). You're just delegating the clutch, and in some circumstances the gear selection to a computer.

Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 29th January 14:23

[Amirhussain]

NDNDNDND said:

Lazygraduate said:

NDNDNDND said:

I can't help but think these 'flappy-paddle evangelists' aren't real petrolheads...
Go and play with your Xbox.

Really...? I think that's a bit of a silly thing to say, don't you?

Out of interest, have you ever driven the type of 'flappy-paddle' cars being discussed here?

Yeah, alright - I haven't driven a flappy-paddle car. But it's basically an automatic, right?

I just love heel-and-toeing and can't imagine driving a car without a clutch. I'd be bored. Sure, on a track going 'click-click-click' is faster, but I don't drive on a track very often, and when I do I like the challenge of heel-and-toeing there too. I'm not chasing laptimes.

From what I've heard, the long-term ownership of a flappy-paddle gets rather boring. It takes no skill or challenge to drive, whereas an daily commute in a manual gives you something to do. It's a skill to finesse and enjoy.

Not everyone's a great driver or an enthusiast

[Baryonyx]

NDNDNDND said:

Yeah, alright - I haven't driven a flappy-paddle car. But it's basically an automatic, right?

On the whole, you aren't missing much, especially if you are proficient with a manual transmission. Sadly, a colleague of mine ended up with an Audi TT V6. He was actually quite a good driver too, capable of using a manual well and having had some decent cars over the years. When he got the TT, he enthused about the speed of the shifts the DSG box could produce, he was truly charmed by it's electronic trickery. Of course, this didn't last long and now he tends just to stick it in 'D' and let it drive itself. What a shame. It's like the car has almost killed his passion for driving too.


The joy of a manual is something non-petrolheads will never understand. The bovine masses just want to get from A-B with as little physical and mental effort as possible. Whether that means clicking a flappy paddle or just putting it in 'D', they are quite happy to have everything done for them, mores the better if it means they can spend longer smoking, looking at their phone or doing their makeup. I could get in my A8 and click it across to tiptronic mode, and tap the stick up and down to change gears. It's effective, yes, but it is nowhere near as fun as working a manual gearbox.


That's what it's all about, fun!

[rtg0616]

It was only a matter of time.. why is it whenever M cars are mentioned, especially recently with the 1M, the first people to get upset are CSL & M3 owners?
I've read so much on this forum about the 1M being so fantastic and everytime, there seems to be an argument that erupts relating to it's ability,looks,engine,wieght etc. Why can't people just accept that their cars are now dated and unable to keep up with more modern cars?