RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!
Discussion
Wills2 said:
I didn't say anything about them being faster, I was more interested in your experiences that have lead you to the conclusion that you don't like SMG on a race track, but I see you've choosen to ignore that.So I guess you are the later, I.e haven't experienced it but read it's no good so will spout ill informed drivel on the internet.
te diesels out there with clunky, arthritic boxes), but in the right car (a good performance petrol, or just a good petrol) the manual box is king. Of course, SMG boxes and the like will appeal to sloppy drivers who can't or won't learn to drive with skill. And for drivers capable of using a manual, that is a bad thing.
I own two 1m coupe s. One daily and one for track and driftdays. Call me nuts to own 2 of them. But i find the 1m one of the best fun cars i have owned and driven. I never thought a turbo engine from bmw could manage that after owning e36 3.0 m3, e46 m3, e46 m3 cs, e46 m3 csl, e90 m3. For me the 1m coupe is a sort of escort mk2 rally car. The car is so nicely playable. You can drift it on throttle. It also has a proper mechanical handbrake for some nice hairpins
I will only sell them if bmw comes with an M2 which has the same bulldog looks and a mechanical hanbrake and rear diff. Then after a testdrive i might consider buying one if it gives equal fun as the 1m coupe.
The new M3/M4 will be an awesome car but the long wheelbase is putting me off. I want a wheel base not much longer then a 1m coupe. It makes the car so playable and for me that s a big sellingpoint. I car must keep you entertained and a 1M Coupe does that very very good.
I will only sell them if bmw comes with an M2 which has the same bulldog looks and a mechanical hanbrake and rear diff. Then after a testdrive i might consider buying one if it gives equal fun as the 1m coupe. The new M3/M4 will be an awesome car but the long wheelbase is putting me off. I want a wheel base not much longer then a 1m coupe. It makes the car so playable and for me that s a big sellingpoint. I car must keep you entertained and a 1M Coupe does that very very good.
Fully respect Dale's opinion, but for me SMGII in the CSL is just damn good fun. It's exciting to drive the nuts off the thing, banging shifts home, engine screaming through its induction system. Does that make me less of a petrolhead as someone suggested on here? I obviously don't understand the term if it does
Not hit any issues with it set at high shift speeds btw
Oh, and I'd love a 1M to go with it too!
Not hit any issues with it set at high shift speeds btw
Oh, and I'd love a 1M to go with it too!
Ive been a reader for a number of years on this forum. Never posted. Just read.
It always makes me laugh to the point of falling off my chair when the manual v's semi auto argument arises.
Technology moves on.
The problem is, half of these people who post these nonsense comments about manual boxes being better than the DCT have never driven a car or owned a car with a DCT type set up. People quoting such nonsense about 'wheres the fun' blah blah blah. Have you ever driven an M3 DCT? Let me tell you, its fun alright.
Ive owned my E92 M3 DCT for nearly a year now. Both hands on the steering wheel, gear change quicker than you can blink. Safer. I could go on. I was very skeptical about the DCT set up, but let me tell you something, it puts a smile on my face every time i want a tear up.
Ive been a petrol head for 20 years and have all manner of cars. Hot hatches. Big engined cruisers. Would i ever go back to manual over DCT? Not a chance.
It always makes me laugh to the point of falling off my chair when the manual v's semi auto argument arises.
Technology moves on.
The problem is, half of these people who post these nonsense comments about manual boxes being better than the DCT have never driven a car or owned a car with a DCT type set up. People quoting such nonsense about 'wheres the fun' blah blah blah. Have you ever driven an M3 DCT? Let me tell you, its fun alright.
Ive owned my E92 M3 DCT for nearly a year now. Both hands on the steering wheel, gear change quicker than you can blink. Safer. I could go on. I was very skeptical about the DCT set up, but let me tell you something, it puts a smile on my face every time i want a tear up.
Ive been a petrol head for 20 years and have all manner of cars. Hot hatches. Big engined cruisers. Would i ever go back to manual over DCT? Not a chance.
Rsmatt said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have you driven a 1m?.... No is the answer go and drive one then you will have a valid opinion nobody having driven a 1m would say its engine was meh! FoolSome really interesting points in this thread and I won't presume to tell anyone that SMG/DCT or manual is better, it's really a matter of preference.
What has to be remembered is that M division have certain commercial targets. The CSL had to have the SMG gearbox because BMW had to be seen to be producing their "track car for the road" as high tech as possible and paddle shifts and carbon technology was what was happening in the race world at the time. To bring these to a road car was a marketing tool.
DCT gearboxes are the future not because they are better than manuals but because they aid in the world of strict emissions regulations. The E90 range of M3's when developed had to be at the leading edge.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 1M was a tester for BMW to get a feeling for the reception the under development 2013/2014 forced induction M3/M4 and to aid throttle and responsiveness development.
Oh, I drive a DCT M3 and owned a SMG M3 CS. Loved both and a CSL is on the wish list. Never driven a 1M but from what I've heard they are a special car, maybe I'll get one next!
What has to be remembered is that M division have certain commercial targets. The CSL had to have the SMG gearbox because BMW had to be seen to be producing their "track car for the road" as high tech as possible and paddle shifts and carbon technology was what was happening in the race world at the time. To bring these to a road car was a marketing tool.
DCT gearboxes are the future not because they are better than manuals but because they aid in the world of strict emissions regulations. The E90 range of M3's when developed had to be at the leading edge.
I wouldn't be surprised if the 1M was a tester for BMW to get a feeling for the reception the under development 2013/2014 forced induction M3/M4 and to aid throttle and responsiveness development.
Oh, I drive a DCT M3 and owned a SMG M3 CS. Loved both and a CSL is on the wish list. Never driven a 1M but from what I've heard they are a special car, maybe I'll get one next!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I should also comment that after driving a Porsche 997 Turbo and a 997 GT3, I much preferred the kidney kicking turbo. Perhaps I'm a forced induction man at heart, which is why I love the power delivery of my 1M.
Horses for courses really. Nobody is wrong and neither is better than the other. It just depends on what floats your boat.
cloudburstt said:
Ive been a reader for a number of years on this forum. Never posted. Just read.
It always makes me laugh to the point of falling off my chair when the manual v's semi auto argument arises.
Technology moves on.
The problem is, half of these people who post these nonsense comments about manual boxes being better than the DCT have never driven a car or owned a car with a DCT type set up. People quoting such nonsense about 'wheres the fun' blah blah blah. Have you ever driven an M3 DCT? Let me tell you, its fun alright.
Ive owned my E92 M3 DCT for nearly a year now. Both hands on the steering wheel, gear change quicker than you can blink. Safer. I could go on. I was very skeptical about the DCT set up, but let me tell you something, it puts a smile on my face every time i want a tear up.
Ive been a petrol head for 20 years and have all manner of cars. Hot hatches. Big engined cruisers. Would i ever go back to manual over DCT? Not a chance.
I've driven a DCT and didn't particularly like it. In fact given the choice between a manual or DCT car, I'd have the manual. I'm not that bothered if it changes gear quicker, because I preference the interaction with a manual gear box. Being able to heal and toe, blipping the throttle myself, etc. I just find it a more involving driving experience. It always makes me laugh to the point of falling off my chair when the manual v's semi auto argument arises.
Technology moves on.
The problem is, half of these people who post these nonsense comments about manual boxes being better than the DCT have never driven a car or owned a car with a DCT type set up. People quoting such nonsense about 'wheres the fun' blah blah blah. Have you ever driven an M3 DCT? Let me tell you, its fun alright.
Ive owned my E92 M3 DCT for nearly a year now. Both hands on the steering wheel, gear change quicker than you can blink. Safer. I could go on. I was very skeptical about the DCT set up, but let me tell you something, it puts a smile on my face every time i want a tear up.
Ive been a petrol head for 20 years and have all manner of cars. Hot hatches. Big engined cruisers. Would i ever go back to manual over DCT? Not a chance.
However I have friends who commute a lot and like the fact that the car changes gear for them in traffic and it's one less thing to think about.
Big E 118 said:
DCT gearboxes are the future not because they are better than manuals but because they aid in the world of strict emissions regulations. The E90 range of M3's when developed had to be at the leading edge.
In the world of strict emissions regs they are not better either. They are easier to engineer to be better (read cheaper), but that is all they are. Cheap at hitting a target that makes no difference except for hitting a targets sake.It's funny because CVT gearboxes offered seamless smooth torque transmission and maximum efficiency of putting power down to the ground in all speed/demand states, but people didn't like the non-stepped power delivery. They preferred stepped gears.
Odd really since that is why gearboxes are inherently flawed from an efficiency pov.
It's all just chasing tiny percentages and it's stupid imo in the bigger picture of lots of things. A gearbox is irrelevant in my view, it's just a feature of a car that can add enjoyment, character and interest. Throw a DSG or SMG or automatic torque converter or manual or CVT on a car, who cares. If it works with the car great, if not, not so great.
I couldn't imagine an SL55 AMG with anything but that 5 speed auto, nor could I imagine the M3 CSL with a manual.
I generally don't like automatics but I think in the CSL it's a PLUS point as it adds to the experience!
I celebrate Pagani and Lamborghini for using good old robot single clutch manuals, at least they are doing something focussed on performance and not looking for a scrap of extra mpg on a flawed test or worrying about a little bit of extra smoothness or other similar whingey comments that only a complete puff would worry about on a performance car.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
In the world of strict emissions regs they are not better either. They are easier to engineer to be better (read cheaper), but that is all they are. Cheap at hitting a target that makes no difference except for hitting a targets sake.
Dave
Agreed, you just explained it better than me!Dave
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff