RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!

RE: PH Blog: the best M3? It's the 1 M!

Author
Discussion

johnnywb

1,631 posts

207 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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The SMG box is 10 years old and is very old tech by comparison to the newer stuff.

As a CSL owner, i think the SMG box suits the character of the car.

As for the brakes, almost every owner i know upgrades them anyway!

scotty_917

1,034 posts

221 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Didn't Monkey Harris already come to this conclusion, over a year ago...on the official BMW launch? scratchchin

Si_man306

456 posts

184 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Interesting write up, I do like the 1M and they look great in the flesh.

The CSL though is a mythical beast. It will be some years before the 1M will enter that category.

D200

514 posts

146 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Cheib said:
You sure the US had manual CSL's ?!?! IIRC they didn't even get the SMG version
My mistake, I searched there and you are correct.

I never thought there was a manual version of it in the US until I very recently read an article about the manual F10 M5. I thought they mentioned in this article that you could get a manual CSL in the US but I must have misread the article I guess.

Personally I like the SMG box in E46 M3s ok. I never drove a CSL but have driven a few standard ones and I like it. I mentioned that you could fit a manual box if you want as the SMG only is a deal breaker for lots of people...

X5TUU

11,907 posts

186 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Totally agree that the 1m is the way for the future and with there being nil lookey likeys about as well, that makes them even more special and worthwhile to me

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Lazygraduate said:
Wasn't there a sort of CSL-lite version called the CS, with three pedals but retaining most of the suspension and engine mods of the CSL?
It had the CSL steering rack and the M track DSC mode. It also had slightly heavier CSL-lookalike wheels. That was it.

m444ttb

3,160 posts

228 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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It's a shame that we couldn't have the CSL-spec S54 engine in the 1M with a little work to lighten it. What a car that could be.

Wills2

22,666 posts

174 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Baryonyx said:
Mr Whippy said:
CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?
Once again someone misses the charm of a manual. Why bother with the delicate act of balancing the pedals, a deft throw of the shifter, the tactile response of really driving the car when you can just click a button and let the car do it for you. Right? rolleyes
I know it's just your opinion but is this opinion about the CSL and it's SMG derived from actually driving the car on a track and disliking the experience?

I've driven quite a few flappy paddle cars on track and they are fantastic and make the whole experience much better for the average driver, which of course I am.

So are you a highly skilled track driver that loves to drive manual cars or just an average driver who dislikes things you haven't actually tried?

If it is the later then I suggest to try one on a track as they work very very well, I also love manuals BTW.


Wills2

22,666 posts

174 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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upsidedownmark said:
Well... I've not driven a CS*L*, but my mates's SMG CS ('06) on track (and it may not be the same box, so possibly irrelevant) - In track mode the shift is brutal. Mechanical sympathy aside, it upsets the car sufficiently I'd not change mid corner etc. The shift isn't *that* fast either, in the same order of time as a manual shift; I was left with the impression it banged things around to 'create drama' as much as anything.

I suspect the CSL is 'super fast' despite, not because of the box.

Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 29th January 14:23
The SMG box in the e46 had a fastest shift time of 80ms or if you like much faster than you or I could change gear.


jonm01

817 posts

236 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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NDNDNDND said:
From what I've heard, the long-term ownership of a flappy-paddle gets rather boring. It takes no skill or challenge to drive, whereas an daily commute in a manual gives you something to do. It's a skill to finesse and enjoy.
Yes, I love that feeling of the clutch pedal slowly embedding itself in the sole of my shoe after I've changed gear for the 487th time whilst in a queue of traffic.




garypotter

1,483 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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The 1m, gone in 60 seconds, in the midlands!! but it's not BMW problem

abidr500

148 posts

156 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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The csl ,smg complaint is a very odd one. the author says it either rip your diff off harsh or hip replacemnet slush. the smg box has about 4 settings in between. Choose the one that suits and stop whining.
Its interesting that when jeremy clarkson drove the csl, he lamented the need for so many options for the gearbox. Go figure ....

flappy paddles are an f1/ xbox fantasy , of course they are, and good for it, they arent as direct in terms of feel as a manual but smg is far better than dual clutch which is more like an auto slush box.

for me, for a ten year old car the csl is a belter in every way. 1M appears to be a great car too and im sure will stand the test of time
quite as well as a csl ? im not so sure

Dale Lomas

218 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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SMG is not for me, it's personal opinion - that's why it's a blog piece.

But if you wish for me to quantify why I don't like the CSL's SMG in particular...

... We ran one for a couple of seasons as a rental car. It would boil the shifting fluid regularly when customers got carried away, requiring a full flush which in turn required the car to be 'plugged in'. Which of course means it's off down the BMW dealer we go. Or at least a very well equipped independent. The diff also takes a beating on 'hard' mode and I've seen with my own eyes three broken diffs on CSLs.

And every single time the fluid boils, the first indication you get is rather scary. it doesn't quite shift... which means you experience the most God-awful computer-forced mis-shift that will set your teeth on edge and leave your finger nails in the steering wheel. It's awful when it happens. <click!><crruuuuuuuuunnnnccchhhh...(no! stop!) crunch (please stop)...crunch (no don't do it!)>

I was instructing at Spa and it did on that well known Uphill Camel straight at 120mph... agghhhh the gearbox! The lovely gear box! For shame...

... and all of this adds weight.

'Better' might mean that you don't get a squeaky knee on the M25 and you can't mis-shift it into 5 figures. 'Faster' might mean it can shift in 0.08 seconds.

But I prefer manual still. The E46 M3 has a rather adequate manual option, don't you think? Do you drive a sporty road car on track to enjoy control of the machine through analogue controls? Or do you want to push buttons? What else should become digital? The brake pedal? The throttle? The steering?

Paddle-shifts are great shortcuts for beginners and are ultimately necessary when pitting sports car against sports car in the arena of racing. The other car can shift in 2 and half nano seconds? Then I must too!

But for my own sporting laps, just me and a car on a lap of the 'ring, I *love* a stick and three pedals. I double de-clutch for fun. I should have that on a sticker. wink

daz4m

2,904 posts

194 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Zod said:
It had the CSL steering rack and the M track DSC mode. It also had slightly heavier CSL-lookalike wheels. That was it.
The wheels were actually probably slightly lighter on the basis that the fronts were a 1/2 an inch thinner. Rears were exactly the same.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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upsidedownmark said:
Mr Whippy said:
What is with the SMG bashing?

CSL on track with SMG is super fast.

What is there not to like?

...

What is wrong with it? Too slow? Too harsh? Makes you fingers ache? What?


Tell us, rather than just perpetuate nonsense.

Dave
Well... I've not driven a CS*L*, but my mates's SMG CS ('06) on track (and it may not be the same box, so possibly irrelevant) - In track mode the shift is brutal. Mechanical sympathy aside, it upsets the car sufficiently I'd not change mid corner etc. The shift isn't *that* fast either, in the same order of time as a manual shift; I was left with the impression it banged things around to 'create drama' as much as anything.

I suspect the CSL is 'super fast' despite, not because of the box.

For him it's brilliant as he can't use a conventional box, and as has been mentioned, it's now 'old' technology, but as you asked..

[edit to add]
No NDNDNDND - it's not basically an automatic (assuming that's an honest question) - mechanically it's a manual box, but actuated by a computer (i.e. no slushy torque converters etc). You're just delegating the clutch, and in some circumstances the gear selection to a computer.

Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 29th January 14:23
Interesting feedback but I'm not sure I'd agree.

Even the 'slow' SMG stuff on the 330Ci and Z4 (04 vintage) was fast in my view. Same robotised technology but apparently not as good as the M cars.
M3 CSL was super fast. I've timed my shifts on g-plots in a manual car and I'm fast, but I can say for certain that even 250ms is super good for me and that was concentrating. A Z4 SMG feels twice as fast as I can shift, so a CSL must be in the sub 100ms category flat out.

Yes it's jerky, if you want to change engine speed from 8000rpm > 6000rpm, disengage drive and re-engage it, all in 100ms, then it's gonna have a thump to it biggrin

Yes it's also 10 years old and old technology, but so what? Any 10 year old car is 10 year old technology but it's still very good in the case of a CSL or Ferrari in my view.

I've been in a few DSG cars and autos and also SMG, and good old manual, and in my view it's almost all much of a muchness. There is no stark difference.
Even a 90's 5 speed automatic feels good to me still. No not perfect, but who cares? I don't sit in a car worrying about the slight longitudinal g variations, usually I'm worrying about the vertical ones and my 19" low profile wheels on pot holes!


Truth is the CSL SMG is very very very very good, no it's not a manual, but for an SMG it's very very very good.



I still want to know why the author of this piece bashed it. Imo it's just saying something dumb because he can't think of anything decent to say in the first place, which then makes you wonder about the value of the rest of the piece.

Dave

Pugsey

5,813 posts

213 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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"Best" M3. Best means so many different things to different folks. I'd say the current M3 is a better resolved car, in standard form, on road & track than the 1M

Dale Lomas

218 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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Dave, read the post above.

<sigh>

Dale Lomas

218 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Two thumbs up. Made me chortle!

Pugsey

5,813 posts

213 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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That said (my prev post) - if I was buying today and wanted a FUN Mcar that did it all I'd agree with Dale, 1M every time.

Chris Harris

494 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th January 2013
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So do we agree that the ultimate M3 is a CSL with a retro-fitted manual 'box?

Pook - can you arrange this please?

Failing that, I agree with Dale, the 1M is fantastic fun and has just enough lurking mentalist about it to make for a proper driving challenge without ever being dangerous.