RE: Driven: Renault Twizy

[alangla]

300bhp/ton said:

alangla said:

DonkeyApple said:

Perd Hapley said:

All true, but the electric cars do make towns and cities nicer - no exhaust fumes being pumped into densely populated areas, and much less noise too. Imagine a silent, odourless traffic jam!

Exactly. The enviro loonies have buggered EVs because they have simply leapt in and lied and misled people to try and force their agenda.

The real purpose of an EV is that very many people have a fixed and short regular commute, either to work or just the shops. It's just more pleasant to do this in easy, quiet conditions.

I like the idea of the EV because if there are enough of them it will make a real difference to the noise levels of urban living.

I've been saying for a while that general purpose cars are the wrong use of EV technology. Getting all the post office vans, couriers, supermarket home delivery vans, the commuters you mention & everything else that follows a relatively short, predictable route each day onto electric power would make a vast difference to urban air quality. Most of these vehicles will be sitting in a depot for 12-16 hours a night, so charging infrastructure shouldn't be a problem.

I know I've just being saying about the low noise of certain EV's. But in terms of urban area noise I'm still unconvinced for these reasons:

-sitting in the office now I hear generally tyre noise from vehicles moving at speed (town/city)

-the engines I hear are generally those of lorries, buses and trucks. Things unlikely to become EV's.

-In London where I used to work they had just deployed some EV buses that used a generator to power the motors. At idle this was MUCH LOUDER than the antique Route Master diesel buses that are also used on this bus route. I was amazed at how loud it was walking past it.

-Not all EV's are quiet, have you ever heard the noise a milk float makes?

I think the truck element might happen - I've seen both TNT & TK Maxx running Smiths 7.5 ton electrics around here - that should cover off most of the city centre delivery market.
(large) Buses are a bit more of a problem & realistically I think the best that will be do-able will be more powerful batteries & running with the engine stopped in areas of heavy pollution. Getting enough power to run a double decker from, say, Tower Bridge to Marble Arch without starting the engine will be a challenge.

The milk float will be DC motored - new EVs tend to be AC, compare the motor noise a pre-1990s electric train makes compared to a new generation effort.

Anyway, when I mentioned urban air quality, I was thinking more of the particulates & other crud emitted by diesels rather the noise per-se.

[carnut360]

as Chris says, its just too impractical, BUT how about one of these, in fact i have two of them! does about 85mpg top speed about 46 mph ideal for town and people love it, brings a smile to everyones face.

ideal for two people, and its even got a small boot good enough for about 4 tesco bags, or one person and a full shop!


also great in snow and offroad, i do have a clip on roof for proper rain though! but as its made out of washing up bowl plastic rain does not bother it...

So Chris if you want to road test it pls be my guest and if it does blow up it won;t cost you your house!

[anonymous-user]

£7k and a range of ~60miles? I'd get one of these:





Can be recharged just about anywhere, in about 20mins, with just a packet of Chocolate HobNobs and a nice cup of hot tea!

;-)

[Perd Hapley]

Max_Torque said:

£7k and a range of ~60miles? I'd get one of these:





Can be recharged just about anywhere, in about 20mins, with just a packet of Chocolate HobNobs and a nice cup of hot tea!

;-)

I would love to ride a really expensive bike just to see how much better it is than my 1990s Halfords Apollo. I mean, I know it's going to be better, but would it really justify being seventy times the price?

[Butter Face]

vrooom said:

so in 1 year, that twizy's battery degrades, and the range drops to 55 miles, by 4 years it can hopefully go 35mph??

The battery lease covers for replacement batteries if he performance drops below 80% (I think)

[y2blade]

Perd Hapley said:

Max_Torque said:

£7k and a range of ~60miles? I'd get one of these:





Can be recharged just about anywhere, in about 20mins, with just a packet of Chocolate HobNobs and a nice cup of hot tea!

;-)

I would love to ride a really expensive bike just to see how much better it is than my 1990s Halfords Apollo. I mean, I know it's going to be better, but would it really justify being seventy times the price?

Give us a shout if you ask that same question again in the Pedal Powered section.

[Agent Orange]

Give me something similar that'll comfortably do double that mileage on a single charge so I can get to work and back and I might be interested. As they currently stand something like the Twizy is surely for the small minority that would like to use a scooter to commute around town but want the safety of 4 wheels, relative comfort and rain protection of a car and are prepared to spend 2-3 times the cost.

Why can't someone make me one of these? Doesn't even need an electric motor. Plenty of current 400-650cc bike engines deliver 40-60mpg. Would be my perfect commute vehicle.

[anonymous-user]

Agent Orange said:

Why can't someone make me one of these?

The problem with all the amazing personal mobility concepts that you see draw/rendered, is that they simply don't fit into the exisiting passenger car legislation. Rules for things like windscreen wipers, fields of view, height of lighting, radii on bodywork, all result in things ending up looking more like the Twizy. We need a new sector to be made, say under 750kg, max 50bhp, max 60mph, which has less strenuous regulations, allowing that sort of thing to be made. Currently, you have to be under iirc 350kg to be not classed as a normal passeneger car an be exempt from crash/safety regs etc (things like the gwiz as a quadracycle etc)


Finally, low and wide concepts look fab, but on our real roads, with increasingly large and tall vehicles, they really don't work. There is no point having a single seat car the same size as an C1/aygo for example. If you've ever been behind something like a RRS in say a caterham, the feeling of vunerability is amazing.........

[Agent Orange]

Max_Torque said:

We need a new sector to be made, say under 750kg, max 50bhp, max 60mph, which has less strenuous regulations, allowing that sort of thing to be made. Currently, you have to be under iirc 350kg to be not classed as a normal passeneger car an be exempt from crash/safety regs etc (things like the gwiz as a quadracycle etc)

Yep agree. Seems pointless trying to come up with solutions when bound by the rules of the existing problem.

Max_Torque said:

Finally, low and wide concepts look fab, but on our real roads, with increasingly large and tall vehicles, they really don't work. There is no point having a single seat car the same size as an C1/aygo for example.

Yep I'd agree with that. However, make it so you could comfortably fit two per lane and you double the capacity of a major road. Just how much room do I, on my own, need on a motorway/A road.

Max_Torque said:

If you've ever been behind something like a RRS in say a caterham, the feeling of vunerability is amazing.........

Yes I have and no it isn't. Far worse on a 50cc scooter with everyone overtaking whilst you wobble in the wind. Maybe because I used to ride bikes but in a Caterham I've never felt vulnerable.

[SpeckledJim]

Perd Hapley said:

I would love to ride a really expensive bike just to see how much better it is than my 1990s Halfords Apollo. I mean, I know it's going to be better, but would it really justify being seventy times the price?

If you think a Bugatti can be worth £1m, whilst still being just a car, then yes.

If not, then no.

[Lunablack]

Butter Face said:

I drive one. It's ace.

I'd probably drive one too if it was free....... But spunk my own money on one??..... Nope

[Ianv12]

Butter Face said:

vrooom said:

so in 1 year, that twizy's battery degrades, and the range drops to 55 miles, by 4 years it can hopefully go 35mph??

The battery lease covers for replacement batteries if he performance drops below 80% (I think)

I think the idea is that as battery technology gets better, the batteries supplied in the car get better, so the battery life should get better over the life of the car.
I assume top speed with never change unless tampered with

[Hellbound]

For me, the Twizy was flawed from its conception.

I much prefer Honda's Micro Commuter concept...





And the Peugeot/PSA VeLV concept.



My favorite has to be Audi's concept, although I doubt it will ever go into production.

[Butter Face]

Hellbound said:

concept...

concept.

concept,


although I doubt it will ever go into production.

The Twizy may be flawed, but it's in the showrooms, on the road, off the drawing board. However you want to put it, it's not just a concept built without the real-world limitations.

[thinfourth2]

Numeric said:

Dodgy man maths - and please shoot me down cos I can't be right. All numbers are pure make believe but it's the ratios I'm messing around with.

You have a normal car that during production used 100 tonnes of C02 and during it's running life of say 10 years used another 100 over 100,000 miles

But you decide to get an EV as well to be environemntal (you can't have it as your only car cos you need to do distances as well) and that produces 100 tonnes CO2 during production and new batteries over the same life. You do half your mileage in this car and produce no CO2 (i'm being generous)

So using this dodgy maths total CO2 use is

Single car = 200 tonnes CO2 (100 tonnes production and 100 tonnes fuel)
Car and EV = 250 tonnes CO2 (100 tonnes car production, 100 tonnes EV and Batteries production and 50 tonnes fuel)

So only if the EV is your only car is it more environmental. I'm being thick surely??

(Are EVs much more efficient to build?)

Edited by Numeric on Wednesday 30th January 15:14

You have brought up CO2

Ergo you must belive in the whole man made up global warming

So you should sell your car, give up your job and live in a teepee

[dc2rr07]

Perd Hapley said:

All true, but the electric cars do make towns and cities nicer - no exhaust fumes being pumped into densely populated areas, and much less noise too. Imagine a silent, odourless traffic jam!

oh and not moving as the batteries have all gone flat in the traffic jam

[Agent Orange]

Audi make this but a single seater please.

[sad61t]

dc2rr07 said:

oh and not moving as the batteries have all gone flat in the traffic jam

Eh? Why would the batteries go flat in a traffic jam? The electric car has a stop/start mechanism; by its very nature it will only take energy from the batteries when required, i.e. when moving. The energy for the lights or heated windscreen is minimal in comparison with that needed for motion. OK, there's leakage current over several weeks but if the jam is that permanent, I'll have long since vacated the vehicle and walked home.

[ispcarsurvey]

I considered one to commute to work. Live zone 2/3 in London, charge point about 30 seconds from work. Would also be able to drive in with the other half as she'd be on the way (5-6 mile drive). However, I decided against because:

- you can only use a charge point for a few hours. And then I'd have to find (and pay in central London) for the rest of the day. Which makes it no longer a cheap option.

- you can't use bus lanes as it's classed as a car

- but not classed as a car that's part of the governments electric car subsidy scheme (which would dramatically reduce the cost)

- it's too wide to weave through as you would a bike.

- cost wise, you also need just over £50 a month to pay Renault for the battery (which again negates cost savings)

If parking was free and I could use the bus lanes, I think I'd go for one. Instead, I'll settle for the tube. Shame.

[DonkeyApple]

ispcarsurvey said:

I considered one to commute to work. Live zone 2/3 in London, charge point about 30 seconds from work. Would also be able to drive in with the other half as she'd be on the way (5-6 mile drive). However, I decided against because:

- you can only use a charge point for a few hours. And then I'd have to find (and pay in central London) for the rest of the day. Which makes it no longer a cheap option.

- you can't use bus lanes as it's classed as a car

- but not classed as a car that's part of the governments electric car subsidy scheme (which would dramatically reduce the cost)

- it's too wide to weave through as you would a bike.

- cost wise, you also need just over £50 a month to pay Renault for the battery (which again negates cost savings)

If parking was free and I could use the bus lanes, I think I'd go for one. Instead, I'll settle for the tube. Shame.

My issue is that while I have parking and garage space I just don't think there is an easier commute than the tube. I have a choice of lines within 10 mins walk and if they all fail I can get a taxi or just walk.

But I do like the idea of an EV so have been watching the Tesla S closely as that would be more useful to me as I do an end of week commute of 75 miles.