RE: (Not) driven: Jaguar F-Type

[FisiP1]

I'll take a V6 please. If it was closer to the Boxster in Price I'd 120% buy one ASAP, but pitching it against a 911 seems a stretch, even with how wonderful it looks and sounds.

[Wills2]

andyps said:

Wills2 said:

Krikkit said:

Wills2 said:

And this isn't a rival for the 911 turbo S! It's a boxster/cayman rival no matter what Jaguars PR machine says and it should be cheaper than it is.

Is it not possible for cars to not really be rivals anymore? Just because Porsche makes a set of cars in a certain range doesn't mean everyone else has to line up their ranges.

This is a competitor for an entry-level 911 whichever way you cut it, but only for price. Practicality is different between the two of them, but how many people actually use all the seats in a 911? I've never seen one with >2 people in it.

I really don't see it that way, I might be wrong but I doubt the market will see it that way either, this isn't a break through "new segment car" like the Espace or X5 were this is a 2 seater sports car (a market that is very small) with one dominant player and that is Porsche.

You don't need to put people in the rear seats of a 911 for them to give you added practicality either it's extra storage and room for stuff which makes the car appealing with the added bonus of being able to carry passengers.

The 911 is lighter/faster more efficent more technically adavanced and has a pedigree in this sector that none can match (whether you like it or not)

Jaguar will want all the comparision tests done against the 911 and probably the R8 the British press will accomodate that request out of loyality etc....but it's a Cayman/Boxster rival priced too high.

I know this sounds very negative but I like the car and the thought of British jobs etc....but at the current pricing I won't be looking at it.

When the last great sports car Jaguar produced went on sale it wasn't just the speed and beauty that shocked everyone it was also the price. (in a good way)

I can't follow your logic here. You are discussing the number of seats/space which is pretty meaningless. For the money of any of the cars discussed you can get a five seater if space is the real priority. I am not sure what you mean by technically advanced but the Jag is pretty much on a par with a Porsche as far as I can see. I am not sure of the weight of the F-Type but seem to remember it isn't as light as the aluminium body would lead you to think. People talk about the pedigree of the 911 but it is a car which has been around a long time and for many years survived despite a fundamentally flawed basic configuration, not because of it

But look at engine size and power, a big part of the make up of cars like this, and I am not sure how the F-Type, with a base spec of a 3.0 supercharged V6 with 340hp and a range topping 5.0 supercharged V8 with 495hp compares to a Boxster with a 2.7 boxer6 with 265hp rather than a 911 with a 3.4 boxer6 and 350hp. Certainly makes the F-Type look like more of a 911 rival to me.

I didn't bring up the rear seats Krikitt did I merely answered his observation, the 911 is about 100-150kg lighter than the F-type IIRC (Boxster and Cayman even lighter still) that to me tends to suggest it's more advanced in its construction.

That is before we start with emissions and engine efficency and they do matter even when people spend 65-85k.

I think they are trying to tempt the boxster/cayman s buyers with the 3.0V6/S and the 911 C2S buyer with the V8? Time will tell.

Looks a great car but I really do think the pricing is wrong (but heh what do I know)

[405dogvan]

Beefmeister said:

Bedazzled said:

First time I've seen the F-Type and I don't like it, unsubtle exhaust note and it looks like a Nissan

It could have looked like this...

Are you one of those people who think that Jags should all still look like the 90s XJ? It's called progress.

Edited by Beefmeister on Sunday 3rd February 18:15

Ah - I see you subscribe to the same (and fundamentally wrong) version of progress that Tesco's boss uses

His form of progress is gutting high streets, reducing employment, being given free money to suppress competition and selling more expensive food which is far, far less healthy, fresh, tasty or sustainable.

In this case we're talking about progress which results in a Jaguar which looks fk-all like a Jaguar. If you took the badges off the F Type, NO-ONE (who doesn't know it) would guess it's a Jag - wheras the car above (which I don't love, frankly) wouldn't have that problem.

I like the F Type as a modern sports car but Jaguar have gotten where they are by making individual looking cars which are beautiful and clearly 'Jags'. Even when they crib their own designs (as with the slightly dodgy S Type) they at least didn't fail to make a Jag - but this isn't a Jag.

Well, unless 'progress' means people seeing a 370Z and saying "Oh look - it's the new Jag"...

[Jimbo.]

405dogvan said:

Ah - I see you subscribe to the same (and fundamentally wrong) version of progress that Tesco's boss uses

His form of progress is gutting high streets, reducing employment, being given free money to suppress competition and selling more expensive food which is far, far less healthy, fresh, tasty or sustainable.

In this case we're talking about progress which results in a Jaguar which looks fk-all like a Jaguar. If you took the badges off that, NO-ONE (who doesn't know it) would guess it's a Jag.

If you put Nissan/Mazda badges on it they'd buy that too.

I like the car but Jaguar have gotten where they are by making individual looking cars which are beautiful and clearly 'Jags'. Even when they crib their own designs (as with the slightly dodgy S Type) they at least didn't fail to make a Jag.

The XF and new XJ are not Jags - this isn't a Jag either.

Well, unless 'progress' means people seeing a 370Z and saying "Oh look - it's the new Jag"...

So what you're saying is Jaguar should be churning out the same old rustic cottages on wheels like they were before?

They shouldn't. They couldn't. Whilst they were doing so with the S-Type, XJ and X-Type, they were at best on life-support, else dying. There's only so long wood, leather, and memories so old even they are in black-and-white can sustain you for. Jaguar needed new, Jaguar needed fresh, Jaguar needed modern. They did so with the XF and XJ, and it seems to be working. The F-Type is the next step.

And remember, Jaguar (or SS if we go back far enough) used to pride themselves on automotive engineering/design daring-do and innovation: aerodynamics, materials, suspension, styling. Progress

[tinkertaylor]

ok - firstly i'll say that the F-Type is truly hideous, IMO

but the engine noise from both the V6 and V8 is gorgeous.

[HighwayStar]

Jimbo. said:

So what you're saying is Jaguar should be churning out the same old rustic cottages on wheels like they were before?

They shouldn't. They couldn't. Whilst they were doing so with the S-Type, XJ and X-Type, they were at best on life-support, else dying. There's only so long wood, leather, and memories so old even they are in black-and-white can sustain you for. Jaguar needed new, Jaguar needed fresh, Jaguar needed modern. They did so with the XF and XJ, and it seems to be working. The F-Type is the next step.

And remember, Jaguar (or SS if we go back far enough) used to pride themselves on automotive engineering/design daring-do and innovation: aerodynamics, materials, suspension, styling. Progress

100% spot on... Tradition will keep the loyal fossils happy while the world has moved on to Audi, BMW and Merc.
If Jaguar carried on ploughing that furrow they wouldn't exist now. Evolve or die! See what happened to Nokia while they were busy resting on their laurels! It's not like Apple and Samung snuck up on them.
I don't particularly like the sound of the F-Type engines, never been a fan of the yank V8/Merc burble but that's a personal thing. The car has been pitched right in the middle of the Boxster/911 range. Slightly bigger than a Boxster, smaller than a 911... The price, ambitious. If it's outstanding in the driving, build and tactile stakes they'll get away with it, just. If it's not... Hmm. The next XK, that's going further upmarket.

[PunterCam]

Is it 1400kgs? No. Should it be? Absolutely.

No interest for me, it's just a fat american car. Nothing British about it. The V6 sounds artificial, and the fact it's propelling something touching 1700kgs makes it completely ridiculous.

Jaguar have to sell cars, of course, and they need to do it while spending as little as possible. What's odd is that most car enthusiasts are praising it. It'll drive well I'm sure, and look quite pretty, but if it was 300kgs lighter it would have great fuel economy, lighter and cheaper to replace (and less likely to wear out) parts, and real credibility in an enthusiasts eye.

Lazy, and probably a failure as a result.

[mybrainhurts]

richardaucock said:

But, hey,

Please stand still, I'm trying to aim my arrow....


PS...how do you get to the engine?

[shotgunfacelift]

Truly spectacular looking vehicle, and the noise! Oh that noise! I wish I had that as a soundtrack for life!

[Plainview23]

This place always gets a bit funny when a new Jag comes out. Which is understandable of course, given national pride etc.
For me, it'll fail. The price is wrong and... the price is wrong. In this market I think they missed the mark. And I think they've muddied its image too much with the auto etc.
I honestly hope I'm wrong though, nothing would give me more satisfaction than hearing a bunch of those roaring around european cities.

[K50 DEL]

I saw this a while ago and as I'm a sucker for a great looking soft top I thought I'd run through the configurator on the Jag site and price my ideal spec.

93k later (and no manual option!!!) I came to the conclusion that I'll wait and get a used one in a few years.

[Carnnoisseur]

K50 DEL said:

I saw this a while ago and as I'm a sucker for a great looking soft top I thought I'd run through the configurator on the Jag site and price my ideal spec.

93k later (and no manual option!!!) I came to the conclusion that I'll wait and get a used one in a few years.

Not surprised buy that figure, I think they quoted between £80-£90k on last nights Top Gear. I thought these were initially being pitched at the £50-50k mark? Great looking car IMO, but forecasted residuals could be a concern.

[will261058]

Looks, sounds, IS fabulous!

[K50 DEL]

Carnnoisseur said:

K50 DEL said:

I saw this a while ago and as I'm a sucker for a great looking soft top I thought I'd run through the configurator on the Jag site and price my ideal spec.

93k later (and no manual option!!!) I came to the conclusion that I'll wait and get a used one in a few years.

Not surprised buy that figure, I think they quoted between £80-£90k on last nights Top Gear. I thought these were initially being pitched at the £50-50k mark? Great looking car IMO, but forecasted residuals could be a concern.

That was my original memory as well, priced about 50k - still a fair chunk, but justifiable with man maths... at 90k, no chance.

[stew-S160]

As lovely as it looks and sounds, ok, I'm not going to be able to own one, but I wish Jag would stick a manual box in them.

[Mosdef]

Makes the Aston V8 Roadster look under endowed and over priced. Price notwithstanding, the Jaguar has it licked on paper. Will be interesting to see the group test - this makes the Aston look quite dated (but still attractive) IMHO.

[jamespink]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Oh Mumsnet, that exhaust note!

Want. (but I'd need to see the coupe first.)

The coupe looks far nicer but strangely nothing like as nice as this! http://www.ultimatecarblog.com/wp-content/uploads/...

[megaphone]

An F Type passed me on the M40 last week, not a huge fan of the rear end TBH, overall a lovely looking car, I only had a brief glimpse as he was tanking it in the outside lane!

[swisstoni]

Hope they sell tons but not doing anything for me. Perhaps it works in the flesh.

[loveice]

HighwayStar said:

Jimbo. said:

So what you're saying is Jaguar should be churning out the same old rustic cottages on wheels like they were before?

They shouldn't. They couldn't. Whilst they were doing so with the S-Type, XJ and X-Type, they were at best on life-support, else dying. There's only so long wood, leather, and memories so old even they are in black-and-white can sustain you for. Jaguar needed new, Jaguar needed fresh, Jaguar needed modern. They did so with the XF and XJ, and it seems to be working. The F-Type is the next step.

And remember, Jaguar (or SS if we go back far enough) used to pride themselves on automotive engineering/design daring-do and innovation: aerodynamics, materials, suspension, styling. Progress

100% spot on... Tradition will keep the loyal fossils happy while the world has moved on to Audi, BMW and Merc.
If Jaguar carried on ploughing that furrow they wouldn't exist now. Evolve or die! See what happened to Nokia while they were busy resting on their laurels! It's not like Apple and Samung snuck up on them.
I don't particularly like the sound of the F-Type engines, never been a fan of the yank V8/Merc burble but that's a personal thing. The car has been pitched right in the middle of the Boxster/911 range. Slightly bigger than a Boxster, smaller than a 911... The price, ambitious. If it's outstanding in the driving, build and tactile stakes they'll get away with it, just. If it's not... Hmm. The next XK, that's going further upmarket.

Frankly, I don't care about the tradition or inovation. The important thing is that it has to look better than anything on the market for its price. I'm sure most people agree the rear end of this new design is almost spot on (a modern take on S1 E-Type). However the front facial and the side skirts are way too busy. These kind of 'busy' designs somehow become the 21st century car design must, which I don't understand. Does every single new car needs to have deep skirts and front bumper? Why does it need wholes everywhere (don't tell me they are all for cooling)? And finally, is it really that painful for new generation of automotive designers not to put sharp/defined surface changes everywhere? Somehow, I feel like every Automotive designers nowadays should be all sent to learn photography properly first...

By the way, IMO Alfa's 2uettottanta is still the best looking roadster concept in recent years.

Edited by loveice on Monday 4th February 10:34

Edited by loveice on Monday 4th February 10:41