RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence

[Evo]

It's not a looker lol

Much preferred the detail of the previous Clio 197

[Penneth]

Twincam16 said:

I suspect it's because the Megane is now the size of the Laguna, to the point where they've stopped making the Laguna, and the Twingo has steped in to take the place of the Clio.

I just hope they don't subject the RenaultSport Twingo to a DCT, otherwise they really will have made a mess of it.

Way off - Laguna only stopped being sold in the UK, still being made for Europe.

Looking at sizes and segments, they haven't changed in god knows how long...

A - Twingo, VW Up, Fiat 500
B - Polo, Clio, Corsa
C - Megane, Golf, Astra
D - Laguna, Passat etc

[roystinho]

The 5 dr thing doesn't really bother me as in the flesh it hides them quite well. But the lack of bespoke body parts to differentiate it from the lesser models is a poor effort. Previous RS Clio's look so much better than the boggo ones because of them. This Clio RS will be like the BMW/Audi M sport/s line where you will have to really look hard to see if it's the flagship or a pimped up one.

There is talk of another car being introduced, a modern Renault 5 or a smaller coupe. Hopefully this will be the car for the real enthusiasts, not the marketing tool that this seems to be. I'll have a modern 5GTT with a manual and 220 bhp thanks

[Al 450]

Kolbenkopp said:

Doubt it is really only is the cost of designing two gearbox versions. Think it is blasted EU overregulation again, CO2 targets and fleet average and all that. Much easier faking good results in the fuel economy test with a double clutch box.

http://www.jato.com/PressReleases/Europe%20cleanin...

This.

DCT boxes are heavy, unnecessarily complicated and to top it all off, gay.

[Andy ap]

technology does have to move on and manufacturers do have to remain competitive, the fact remains that the likes of renault and vag etc have the ability and balls to make a decision like this demands admiration to some extent. No i don't agree in that two pieces of plastic telling a computer what to do is 'involving' but since when have modern cars been involving since ABS, TCS, power steering and all that came along. Yes flappy paddles aren't very good but then do you want manufacturers to stick to the exact same template for cars forever. And it will happen the likes of us petrol headers wont be catered for for ever as a car number one is a tool and a means of transport and only then secondly can it be fun or stylish etc. Any mainstream manufacturer is going to make cars aimed at joe bloggs first who wants to go down the pub and say i can change gear in .2 of a second. Take the Zafira or Meriva vxr for example a car aimed at joe bloggs and the faint hope of kidding the owner that their a piston header. And the likes of use die hards will soon be forced to look elsewhere.

[Triumph Man]

Twincam16 said:

So your personal preference is the reason why the rest of us shouldn't have the choice of opting for a manual, is it?

I wouldn't say it was personal preference, more an inability.

[GTiFrank]

Chris71 said:

GTiFrank said:

I don't understand why those of us that want and buy manual cars are the "diehards" and in the minority here. Surly your average PHer IS the target audience for this car, and I would bet more than 2/3rds of us would spec a Clio RS with a manual box given the choice!

You could argue a hot hatch is by definition open to a wider audience. Don't get me wrong, I think they're great, but compared to a full on sports car like a Caterham or an Elise hot hatches have to offer concessions for practicality and affordability. Using a manual 'box would push the fuel consumption and CO2 figures up, while introducing a specific manual gearbox for the RS (if, say, the lesser models aren't up to the torque) would up the production cost.

The beauty of a hot hatch is that it doesn't ask you to make the compromises that a conventional sports car would do. Buyers tend to have at least one eye on practicality and cost, so I can imagine plenty of them would take a few tenths of the 0-60 time and a lower tax bracket over a manual gearbox. Shame.

I fear you may be correct in those assumptions for the hot hatch market in general. However I think (or would like to think) that RS customers choose a RS because of the additional driver involvement that they offer over VAG products. RS models were never that practical those that were more concerned with practicality went out and bought a Golf GTi.

I think the main concern here is that this new Clio is asking you to compromise.

[HedgehogFromHell]

Patrice Ratti Says: Sit down, Shut up - You know naaaathing

I don't want a DCT box. I prefer the rewarding feel of a perfectly timed gearshift snicking into place. I have driven a DCT box'd car and it all feels very Sega Rally. Such a simple thing as removing the gearstick makes driving fast seem effortless and fake. Also, should you get engrossed and forget what gear you're in, you can feel where the gearstick is and you're on your way. DCT you look at the dash and you're off the pace because you've taken your eyes off the prize. Driver involvement on a DCT box is so far removed it ruins the fun. I don't care if it's .3 of a second quicker than a manual. No fun + two clutches to replace = Bore off Patrice. DCT = Lazy people without suitable passion or substance in their arms.

It looks horrendopigs anyway - doesn't matter what technology you put in it, a stter is still a stter and we all know you can't polish a turd.

Oh and as for the racing technology pish, yes, fine it's current tech in most race cars.. But there are still a HUGE amount of series who don't use silly paddles and seem perfectly fine. Silly frenchman

Edited by HedgehogFromHell on Monday 4th February 13:04

[R1gtr]

Surely the biggest problem is if you buy one you will not be able to sell it for love nor money, the old one with manual box, and a pretty bombproof 2.0 litre engine was pretty cheap to run maintenance wise and pretty reliable by all accounts so was a popular choice for youngsters looking for a cheap entry into performance cars.
Can you imagine the costs involved to repair this pig ugly beast in 3 years or so (out of warranty) when it's gearbox implodes or turbo problems appear.
These potential pitfalls would prob put me off buying one second hand and out of warranty.

[excel monkey]

TheRoadWarrior said:

Renault is not VW. Renault is not going to become VW.

They're in danger of disapearing into obscurity imho

Seems similar to Rover when it tried to go for the "semi premium" market in the mid 1990s with the new 200 and 400.

Remind me how that went again...

[cvega]

setting the whole "MANUAL IS BETTER! DSG IS BETTER!" nonsensical argument, how much does a replacement dual clutch actually cost? and how long do they last? DSG has been on the market a while.

[Hub]

Everyone has their preference, it would just be nice to be given a choice (as with the Polo GTI, Fabia VRS etc). That said it really is no looker, and that I think is probably more damaging!

[rhinochopig]

GroundEffect said:

I would love a sequential shifter. Paddles have never done much for me but would love to be able to flat-shift by pulling on the lever.

Pity you can't rev-match downshifts on these.

Yes you can.

[smartie93]

Wasn't the fast clio originally a normal clio with better suspension and the engine and box from something further up the range (laguna 2.0 for the 172 if i remember) with a couple of go faster bits bolted to it. Wasn't that half the appeal? that it was very cheap, very fast and very simple? Not a "race car" for the road.

I wouldn't be able to buy one simply because the second i walk into a showroom my eyes would melt from how catastrophically ugly it is, renault you used to make good looking cars what happened?

New Fiesta ST for me please

[EDLT]

cvega said:

setting the whole "MANUAL IS BETTER! DSG IS BETTER!" nonsensical argument, how much does a replacement dual clutch actually cost? and how long do they last? DSG has been on the market a while.

I just googled it to find out, every thread where someone asks gets invaded by "MANUEL IS BESTEST" tards. Apparently the DSG uses wet clutches that work in a similar way to the cluthes in an automatic gearbox so should last much longer with proper fluid changes, this could also mean that it becomes cheaper to replace the whole box than fix it.

Ebay has second hand boxes for around £800, I'm sure someone will do an exchange service so it could be a little cheaper. A clutch and dual mass flywheel is around the same price for many cars these days.

[TomTVR500]

All fair points I guess and if I am "the vocal minority" then so be it. A sad, SAD thought but so be it.

That’s one sale you just lost already and a lot of respect for Renaultsport with it.

Only time will tell if we really are the minority, I suspect (and sincerely hope) Patrice will be surprised just what an influence us diehards have.

If I am wrong, all the more reason to cherish my little 182 Trophy forever and a day.

[Scourge151]

Being someone who enjoys driving I've had no joy from driving anything with an auto/semi-auto or whatever. This may, of course only be because I've not driven anything with a proper sporty DSG/Auto/whatever but I can only go off what I've experienced can't I?

If I wanted to buy a hot hatch I'd rather have a manual, as hot hatches are supposed to be about being fun, otherwise why buy the hot version of the car? If the Clio with the DSG is actually fun and doesn't get in the way of driving then fair enough, but a manual option would have been nice.

How reliable are the Renault DSG boxes?

[Twincam16]

cvega said:

setting the whole "MANUAL IS BETTER! DSG IS BETTER!" nonsensical argument, how much does a replacement dual clutch actually cost? and how long do they last? DSG has been on the market a while.

Well, given that a DCT box has two clutches whilst a conventional manual only has one, that's an extra thing to go wrong and replace right there and then.

[Himself]

BS75 said:

The first two paragraphs of the article shows exactly why Renault's performance in the UK has become so dismal: they don't give two sts what UK customers want.

I'd be prepared to put money on Renault gaining more customers than they lose.

Edited by Himself on Monday 4th February 13:37

[Twincam16]

Penneth said:

Twincam16 said:

I suspect it's because the Megane is now the size of the Laguna, to the point where they've stopped making the Laguna, and the Twingo has steped in to take the place of the Clio.

I just hope they don't subject the RenaultSport Twingo to a DCT, otherwise they really will have made a mess of it.

Way off - Laguna only stopped being sold in the UK, still being made for Europe.

Looking at sizes and segments, they haven't changed in god knows how long...

A - Twingo, VW Up, Fiat 500
B - Polo, Clio, Corsa
C - Megane, Golf, Astra
D - Laguna, Passat etc

Who came up with this 'segment' tosh? The EU? The Chartered Institute of Marketing? It seems to be applying a chip-cutter to car design, ensuring that every single car is either in a 'segment' or a 'niche', rather than just whatever it is that car company does best. It's depressing and it means that all car manufacturers seem to do is design cars constantly looking over their shoulders at what everyone else is doing rather than applying a clean-sheet approach.