One single thing that makes you think "knob" Vol 2
Discussion
There have been some 'interesting' replies since the fatal crash post.
I think it's fair to say that none of the posters who completely incorrectly said its not a crime scene (it is) or that first responders drag out the work have never had the pleasure of pulling body parts out of an engine bay, hearing someone crying for their mum as they pass away, or have had to pick up bits of flesh from the carriageway..
Maybe some posters that It's the kind of thing someone wants to spend longer doing, while they think up funny gags to say to the deceased loves ones.......as they give them what is often literally the worst news that person will ever get in their life.
There are other reasons not to rush:
As you may be looking a mother in the eye while telling them while their child is dead it's the tiniest bit of comfort that YOU have done your best
The lumps of flesh or corpse are human beings........human beings who may just have been going about their business and deserve to be treated with respect in death.
If you still think it's 'the old chestnut' about your own loved ones be ashamed at your vile attitude to others. Who cares if someone misses a flight....you might miss a day of holiday.......that's nothing compared to losing your life, as that lasts forever.
Just a few thoughts from the brief experience I've had of actually doing stuff like this.
I think it's fair to say that none of the posters who completely incorrectly said its not a crime scene (it is) or that first responders drag out the work have never had the pleasure of pulling body parts out of an engine bay, hearing someone crying for their mum as they pass away, or have had to pick up bits of flesh from the carriageway..
Maybe some posters that It's the kind of thing someone wants to spend longer doing, while they think up funny gags to say to the deceased loves ones.......as they give them what is often literally the worst news that person will ever get in their life.
There are other reasons not to rush:
As you may be looking a mother in the eye while telling them while their child is dead it's the tiniest bit of comfort that YOU have done your best
The lumps of flesh or corpse are human beings........human beings who may just have been going about their business and deserve to be treated with respect in death.
If you still think it's 'the old chestnut' about your own loved ones be ashamed at your vile attitude to others. Who cares if someone misses a flight....you might miss a day of holiday.......that's nothing compared to losing your life, as that lasts forever.
Just a few thoughts from the brief experience I've had of actually doing stuff like this.
Raynkar said:
There have been some 'interesting' replies since the fatal crash post.
I think it's fair to say that none of the posters who completely incorrectly said its not a crime scene (it is) or that first responders drag out the work have never had the pleasure of pulling body parts out of an engine bay, hearing someone crying for their mum as they pass away, or have had to pick up bits of flesh from the carriageway..
Maybe some posters that It's the kind of thing someone wants to spend longer doing, while they think up funny gags to say to the deceased loves ones.......as they give them what is often literally the worst news that person will ever get in their life.
There are other reasons not to rush:
As you may be looking a mother in the eye while telling them while their child is dead it's the tiniest bit of comfort that YOU have done your best
The lumps of flesh or corpse are human beings........human beings who may just have been going about their business and deserve to be treated with respect in death.
If you still think it's 'the old chestnut' about your own loved ones be ashamed at your vile attitude to others. Who cares if someone misses a flight....you might miss a day of holiday.......that's nothing compared to losing your life, as that lasts forever.
Just a few thoughts from the brief experience I've had of actually doing stuff like this.
would be nice to think it works like that,but in one instance where i came across a young lad (23 ,just graduated ) who had slid sideways into an oncoming escort van in a ford ka the first responders were a callous bunch of sI think it's fair to say that none of the posters who completely incorrectly said its not a crime scene (it is) or that first responders drag out the work have never had the pleasure of pulling body parts out of an engine bay, hearing someone crying for their mum as they pass away, or have had to pick up bits of flesh from the carriageway..
Maybe some posters that It's the kind of thing someone wants to spend longer doing, while they think up funny gags to say to the deceased loves ones.......as they give them what is often literally the worst news that person will ever get in their life.
There are other reasons not to rush:
As you may be looking a mother in the eye while telling them while their child is dead it's the tiniest bit of comfort that YOU have done your best
The lumps of flesh or corpse are human beings........human beings who may just have been going about their business and deserve to be treated with respect in death.
If you still think it's 'the old chestnut' about your own loved ones be ashamed at your vile attitude to others. Who cares if someone misses a flight....you might miss a day of holiday.......that's nothing compared to losing your life, as that lasts forever.
Just a few thoughts from the brief experience I've had of actually doing stuff like this.
ts imo . maybe they were just playing the macho firemen ,but i was not impressed to see the first one to look in the window, and proclaim the lad dead with hardly a second glance, when i had climbed out the wreckage to inform them i could not get a pulse after attempting to resuscitate him,and none of them bothering to offer a second opinion.very unprofessional ,i am glad the parents never had to see that.
wc98 said:
would be nice to think it works like that,but in one instance where i came across a young lad (23 ,just graduated ) who had slid sideways into an oncoming escort van in a ford ka the first responders were a callous bunch of sts imo . maybe they were just playing the macho firemen ,but i was not impressed to see the first one to look in the window, and proclaim the lad dead with hardly a second glance, when i had climbed out the wreckage to inform them i could not get a pulse after attempting to resuscitate him,and none of them bothering to offer a second opinion.
very unprofessional ,i am glad the parents never had to see that.
Hang on, are you saying that ONE incident out of the many thousands per year sums up EVERY call out when you say 'would be nice to think it works like that' ?ts imo . maybe they were just playing the macho firemen ,but i was not impressed to see the first one to look in the window, and proclaim the lad dead with hardly a second glance, when i had climbed out the wreckage to inform them i could not get a pulse after attempting to resuscitate him,and none of them bothering to offer a second opinion.very unprofessional ,i am glad the parents never had to see that.
The other thing to ask you is what you did after the event.........were you one hundred percent complicit it allowing this unprofessionalism go unchecked or did you inform the police? That sounds harsh, but they were public servants and are accountable.
Here's why I'm saying this**
Even when I came across a motorcyclist who was on the road while his head was in an adjacent field 50 metres away it still needed a doctor to pronounce him dead. I can't certify someone as legally dead and nor can a firemen.
- we also have to remember real life isn't life telly, and people dint live to make it hospital if they are in a bad way, and the paramedic on the fire engine would have had a good idea on the lads chances.
I realise I'm digressing but another anecdote is this. When I first started to learn first aid there was loads of bolony about 'this course will teach you to save a life' etc, as soon as the training got more advanced the training taught that most people will die if severely injured or unresponsive unconscious.......but you still do cpr as you at least know you have tried, and it's of comfort to onlookers.
Last of all (for this mini novel) just to show the other side of the first responder coin to what you saw:
I was at a scene where a woman committed suicide by jumping from a multi storey car park. I or anyone else there couldn't get to her to stop her and we basically had to just watch helplessly at she fell six storeys. She landed on some railing and they went completely through her abdomen. She was impaled on them with blood coming from her abdomen and mouth but the first police officer still tried to give her mouth to mouth despite her bleeding from the mouth and him not being able to counteract the speed of the blood flow. NO machismo on show, just a copper doing his best while getting covered in her blood.
Sorry for the long post. It wasn't a rant, but it's not fair to tar emergency service workers based on one incident.
The driver's of the Peugeot 308 and the Mondeo who came to a virtual stop on the A1M this morning just so they could rubber neck the accident on the opposite carriageway.
Thank god me and others behind were paying attention, otherwise the outcome could have been pretty horrific.
The young girl in the Corsa who tailgated me despite the fact I was stuck behind a lorry and couldn't really go anywhere. As I came off at the next slip road she continued to be inches from my bumper despite there being two lanes. She then did the most knobish thing I think I've ever seen.......attempting to overtake me at a mini roundabout!!! FFS
Thank god me and others behind were paying attention, otherwise the outcome could have been pretty horrific.
The young girl in the Corsa who tailgated me despite the fact I was stuck behind a lorry and couldn't really go anywhere. As I came off at the next slip road she continued to be inches from my bumper despite there being two lanes. She then did the most knobish thing I think I've ever seen.......attempting to overtake me at a mini roundabout!!! FFS
speedking31 said:
yellowjack said:
... two cars back, a fully lit up marked BMW 5 Series is trying to get through to attend the incident. Only he can't, because three cars are stuck alongside two trucks, while truck No 3 plays the "deliberately hold the cars up" game, presumably to teach the Xsara Picasso ahead of me a lesson for tailgating the truck and frantically flashing his high beams. Look in your mirrors a bit harder, fknuts, and you might have realised that we were ALL flashing our headlights at you because all three of us stuck behind you were trying to get out of the way of the Police car.
If the quickest way to let the police pass is to slow down and drop in behind in L2 then why wouldn't you do that?knuts, and you might have realised that we were ALL flashing our headlights at you because all three of us stuck behind you were trying to get out of the way of the Police car.In an ideal world, I'd have settled in behind the trio of lorries and stayed there at 56mph until either they left at a junction, or I did. But foolishly I decided not to remain a fixture in lane 1 for the rest of the day. Would YOU sit in behind a laden articulated lorry up an incline on a two lane motorway with a clear overtaking opportunity? As it was, I wish I'd delayed my overtake for a few more seconds. Then the Leon would have been ahead of me, and potentially the Police car would have appeared before I began to change lanes, thereby relieving me of any need to clear out of lane 2. But I'm no clairvoyant, so with lane 2 appearing to be clear behind me, I made an entirely normal, planned overtake of the lorries ahead of me. The Leon driver followed me, and closer than I was comfortable with, hence my reluctance to ease back or brake. Ultimately, if the 'elephant racing' wagoner ahead in lane 2 had got on with passing his Kameraden and quit playing 'road captain' with the traffic behind him, we'd all three following cars have been "through and off" in good time to allow plod a clear run.
I'm as self-critical as anyone, and with the benefit of hindsight, I would not have overtaken the HGVs until there was a clear run past them. No one wants to be 'stranded' between an immovable barrier and 40 tonnes of Mann's finest engineering, and I allowed myself to be corralled in a vulnerable position, partly because I made a less than ideal decision, and largely because of a 'perfect storm' of random strangers driving like idiots.
I'm sorry I posted anything with regard to yesterday's fatal crash on the M20.
I had no intention of starting a plod-bashing mini thread. I just wanted to vent my spleen at the idiots around me who were taking risks with other people's safety, and generally doing their best to make things worse.
I'll say it again, so everyone is clear. ALL the emergency services staff, and the Highways Agency (their incident response crew was there waiting to make things safe before the trapped traffic was released) were efficient and professional, so far as I could tell. As soon as the evidence markers were out, and the crashed car's trajectory established, and, I assume, witness statements taken, then all of the trapped traffic was released, utilising lane 3 only, in a very orderly fashion.
Having guessed by the scale of the response that this was a very serious, potentially fatal incident, then I'm surprised that the trapped traffic was released as soon as it was. I don't know what the minnie-moaners on here expect, but to have officers investigate a potential crime scene while traffic rolls past in lane 3 would expose then to unacceptable risks. That's before you even begin to think about the dignity of the victim, what with all the bloody selfy-obsessed Soshul Meejah junkies rolling past recording things on video. When I served in Iraq, whenever there was a fatality, communications were locked down for at least 24 hours to ensure that Next-of-Kin were informed through proper channels, rather than through idle gossip. Same needs to be true of civilian fatalities. What if the next of kin is un-contactable? What if they are watching youtube, or some saddo's twitter feed, and see their partner's car smashed sideways into a crash barrier before the trained family liaison officer can sit them down and break the news more sensitively? It's entirely right and proper that the road be closed until the scene can be screened, or the wreckage sheeted or better still removed, and until the body of the deceased can be removed to a place of dignified rest.
Like I said, I wish I hadn't mentioned it at all now, given the direction things have taken. But I can't un-post it, so I'd like to leave it at this...
"There but for the Grace of God go we" - so just be nice, people. Let those who are charged with investigating the cause of this sad death do it, by the book, and thoroughly. Then give a little thanks to whatever Deity you pray to, or lucky star that you wish upon, that it wasn't you, or someone that you love, who failed to come home yesterday. And take a lesson from it. Drive safe, and play nice out on the roads. It isn't a race, and you don't win anything for getting wherever it is you are going any quicker than the next driver.
I had no intention of starting a plod-bashing mini thread. I just wanted to vent my spleen at the idiots around me who were taking risks with other people's safety, and generally doing their best to make things worse.
I'll say it again, so everyone is clear. ALL the emergency services staff, and the Highways Agency (their incident response crew was there waiting to make things safe before the trapped traffic was released) were efficient and professional, so far as I could tell. As soon as the evidence markers were out, and the crashed car's trajectory established, and, I assume, witness statements taken, then all of the trapped traffic was released, utilising lane 3 only, in a very orderly fashion.
Having guessed by the scale of the response that this was a very serious, potentially fatal incident, then I'm surprised that the trapped traffic was released as soon as it was. I don't know what the minnie-moaners on here expect, but to have officers investigate a potential crime scene while traffic rolls past in lane 3 would expose then to unacceptable risks. That's before you even begin to think about the dignity of the victim, what with all the bloody selfy-obsessed Soshul Meejah junkies rolling past recording things on video. When I served in Iraq, whenever there was a fatality, communications were locked down for at least 24 hours to ensure that Next-of-Kin were informed through proper channels, rather than through idle gossip. Same needs to be true of civilian fatalities. What if the next of kin is un-contactable? What if they are watching youtube, or some saddo's twitter feed, and see their partner's car smashed sideways into a crash barrier before the trained family liaison officer can sit them down and break the news more sensitively? It's entirely right and proper that the road be closed until the scene can be screened, or the wreckage sheeted or better still removed, and until the body of the deceased can be removed to a place of dignified rest.
Like I said, I wish I hadn't mentioned it at all now, given the direction things have taken. But I can't un-post it, so I'd like to leave it at this...
"There but for the Grace of God go we" - so just be nice, people. Let those who are charged with investigating the cause of this sad death do it, by the book, and thoroughly. Then give a little thanks to whatever Deity you pray to, or lucky star that you wish upon, that it wasn't you, or someone that you love, who failed to come home yesterday. And take a lesson from it. Drive safe, and play nice out on the roads. It isn't a race, and you don't win anything for getting wherever it is you are going any quicker than the next driver.
walm said:
AdeV said:
On average, 1061 people die every hour in the UK based on 2012 mortality rates
While I might have some respect for your utter callousness, your mathematics leaves something to be desired.A whole lot fewer than 9 MILLION people died in 2012. (24*365*1016=c.9.3m)
In England and Wales it was in fact 499,331. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_331565.pdf
So roughly 57 per hour.
But sod it... how dare they inconvenience you.
And, if you'd cared to read my post a little more carefully, you'd know they didn't inconvenience me, not one little bit, I wasn't there. I was merely speculating that 6 hours seems to be a long time given the apparent circumstances and the high likelihood of blanket CCTV coverage being available. If anyone is to blame for this, I'd put my money on the ambulance-chasing no-win-no-fee lawyers who have turned the UK into the most litigious society since the USA.
If you think I'm callous, then you've taken the wrong message from my post.
Raynkar said:
I think it's fair to say that none of the posters who completely incorrectly said its not a crime scene (it is)
Explain to me how a single vehicle accident can be a crime.Raynkar said:
Maybe some posters that It's the kind of thing someone wants to spend longer doing, while they think up funny gags to say to the deceased loves ones
Actually, on second thoughts, don't. Anyone who can make the statement quoted above is not someone I ever want to speak to or hear from ever again.Last word on this subject I promise. If you want to argue with me, send me a PM.
AdeV said:
No need to be rude. Even though that is pretty much de rigeur on forums these days. Makes me think "knob", that does.
.
No. Its both rude and knobish behaviour to trivialise death and call the emergency services childish names, just because it inconveniences you..
Edited by Hol on Thursday 2nd April 08:47
trashbat said:
here's lots of reasons for this, but a simpler question back at you: do you think plane crashes should be investigated?
Just as you say there can be lots of reasons, but to answer the original question with something blindingly obvious:How would you know it was a single vehicle involved unless you investigate?
Followed by, once you have investigated you may then know if someone needs to be charged. A drunk driver crashing on the motorway has committed a crime. It's a shame the law of the land doesn't fit with what some people WANT to be the case, but it is how it is
Of course, we could always speed up the investigation of road accidents by just asking forum posters what happened.......even though they weren't at the scene and haven't seen any evidence! Some still feel qualified to say what did or didn't happen lol
does that bring us back to the topic of the thread ?Edited by Raynkar on Thursday 2nd April 10:02
The plank in a black Audi A4 who turned left at junc 8 onto the M27 from the right hand lane of a dual carriageway. Not only did he not indicate but when a black Golf flashed him for cutting him up he decided to brake heavily causing the Golf to nearly go into the back of him and me to nearly go into the back of the Golf. I can handle people making a mistake but deliberately braking when he should be accelerating onto the motorway is bang out of order and dangerous.
Raynkar said:
Just as you say there can be lots of reasons, but to answer the original question with something blindingly obvious:
How would you know it was a single vehicle involved unless you investigate?
Followed by, once you have investigated you may then know if someone needs to be charged. A drunk driver crashing on the motorway has committed a crime. It's a shame the law of the land doesn't fit with what some people WANT to be the case, but it is how it is
Of course, we could always speed up the investigation of road accidents by just asking forum posters what happened.......even though they weren't at the scene and haven't seen any evidence! Some still feel qualified to say what did or didn't happen loldoes that bring us back to the topic of the thread ?
How would you know it was a single vehicle involved unless you investigate?
Followed by, once you have investigated you may then know if someone needs to be charged. A drunk driver crashing on the motorway has committed a crime. It's a shame the law of the land doesn't fit with what some people WANT to be the case, but it is how it is
Of course, we could always speed up the investigation of road accidents by just asking forum posters what happened.......even though they weren't at the scene and haven't seen any evidence! Some still feel qualified to say what did or didn't happen lol
does that bring us back to the topic of the thread ?Edited by Raynkar on Thursday 2nd April 10:02
So, they're patching holes on the main road. Temporary traffic lights, busy road. I'm trying to turn right into my little one way street, but the the queue of cars has blocked it. Red Peugeot notices me and pulls forward, just about creating enough space for me if I'm careful.
White Mercedes A class, just as I've started my move, pulls forward and occupies the space. So both lanes of traffic are now stationary until the light changes and the other direction can move. He sits there staring straight ahead, refusing to look at me.
wker.
White Mercedes A class, just as I've started my move, pulls forward and occupies the space. So both lanes of traffic are now stationary until the light changes and the other direction can move. He sits there staring straight ahead, refusing to look at me.
w
ker.Ahimoth said:
So, they're patching holes on the main road. Temporary traffic lights, busy road. I'm trying to turn right into my little one way street, but the the queue of cars has blocked it. Red Peugeot notices me and pulls forward, just about creating enough space for me if I'm careful.
White Mercedes A class, just as I've started my move, pulls forward and occupies the space. So both lanes of traffic are now stationary until the light changes and the other direction can move. He sits there staring straight ahead, refusing to look at me.
wker.
Horn, or get out and politely get out and let him know what an absolute fWhite Mercedes A class, just as I've started my move, pulls forward and occupies the space. So both lanes of traffic are now stationary until the light changes and the other direction can move. He sits there staring straight ahead, refusing to look at me.
w
ker.king moron he is?I encountered the King of all Knobs today. Here he is:
And here's his wife, desperately trying to avoid looking at me.
And this is the back of his Peugeot 508, which he reversed straight into my car, proving that even parking sensors aren't idiot proof.
As you can see, there's not really any damage to his car, other than the various scuffs and scratches on every panel which have been added to show off his immense driving skills.
This was the damage to my car:
Only a bit of a scuff on the bumper, no big deal really. In fact, when I approached him (taking note of how he opened his door straight into the concrete wall) I was prepared to let it go, right up until the point where he denied ever having done it.
Considering the bump was hard enough to knock my phone off the centre console, I found this very difficult to believe. Nonetheless, I invited him and his wife to look down at the scuff on my bumper.
They refused. As in literally, they kept their eyes firmly pointed upwards and no amount of arguing could persuade them to look down.
So, I began taking photos of them, and the cars, which made him realise I wasn't going to let it go, which forced him to start on the excuses. They were extremely convincing, ranging from:
That happens to all the cars who park here
Your car isn't a Ferrari
I like English people, my dog is English.
There is no damage to my car, so it can't have happened.
A bumper respray is cheap, you can easily afford it
But possibly the best of all was "I don't have any money", which he said as he was walking towards his large yacht which was moored in the harbour opposite.
I explained that I wasn't looking for money, and I wasn't even bothered about the scuff - it was simply the principle of him denying it and refusing to even look at the damage which had annoyed me. This seemed to totally confuse him, and he simply mumbled a quick apology and begun preparing his yacht.
I got out the T-cut earlier and the scuff isn't really that obvious now, so although I took a picture of the insurance details on his windscreen, I won't be pursuing it for something so trivial. It just annoys me that people can be suchs when it comes to stuff like this.
Rant over
And here's his wife, desperately trying to avoid looking at me.
And this is the back of his Peugeot 508, which he reversed straight into my car, proving that even parking sensors aren't idiot proof.
As you can see, there's not really any damage to his car, other than the various scuffs and scratches on every panel which have been added to show off his immense driving skills.
This was the damage to my car:
Only a bit of a scuff on the bumper, no big deal really. In fact, when I approached him (taking note of how he opened his door straight into the concrete wall) I was prepared to let it go, right up until the point where he denied ever having done it.
Considering the bump was hard enough to knock my phone off the centre console, I found this very difficult to believe. Nonetheless, I invited him and his wife to look down at the scuff on my bumper.
They refused. As in literally, they kept their eyes firmly pointed upwards and no amount of arguing could persuade them to look down.
So, I began taking photos of them, and the cars, which made him realise I wasn't going to let it go, which forced him to start on the excuses. They were extremely convincing, ranging from:
That happens to all the cars who park here
Your car isn't a Ferrari
I like English people, my dog is English.
There is no damage to my car, so it can't have happened.
A bumper respray is cheap, you can easily afford it
But possibly the best of all was "I don't have any money", which he said as he was walking towards his large yacht which was moored in the harbour opposite.
I explained that I wasn't looking for money, and I wasn't even bothered about the scuff - it was simply the principle of him denying it and refusing to even look at the damage which had annoyed me. This seemed to totally confuse him, and he simply mumbled a quick apology and begun preparing his yacht.
I got out the T-cut earlier and the scuff isn't really that obvious now, so although I took a picture of the insurance details on his windscreen, I won't be pursuing it for something so trivial. It just annoys me that people can be such
s when it comes to stuff like this.Rant over
luckystrike said:
R2T2 said:
Horn, or get out and politely get out and let him know what an absolute fking moron he is?
I thought PH had decided it was impossible to politely get out of a car?king moron he is?On the plus, it won't get up to much speed to run you over if it's blocked in.
If I could be bothered, I'd think about asking for a 'Keep Clear' marking on the road there, but having seen it make no difference at the end of my parent's road, I'll probably not bother.
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