RE: PH Goes Rallying: part three
Discussion
This makes me realise just how much I miss rallying. It's five years since I sold my stage car, and nearly three since I did my last event in a borrowed car.
This year I'm determined to forget about boring things like mortgages and get back out there before it's too late. I'll be spectating this weekend, can't wait.
PS. It's single venue, at least it always used to be.
This year I'm determined to forget about boring things like mortgages and get back out there before it's too late. I'll be spectating this weekend, can't wait.
PS. It's single venue, at least it always used to be.
My old man's E30 was the same. He used to finish every rally with knackered arms and shoulders in extremis.My most interesting moments in an E30 involved a completely fogged up interior, rain and hail, Yokohama A048 tyres and a Nurburgring race. I quickly work out that I had no chance of being quick, so just go sideways instead. It was mildly terrifying, but I didn't crash, which involved a fair chunk of luck.
On the rack ratio, good lord, I have had HUGE moments in E30s when I failed to realise that I still had one turn of lock on, going down a straight road.
On the rack ratio, good lord, I have had HUGE moments in E30s when I failed to realise that I still had one turn of lock on, going down a straight road.
Captain Muppet said:
I find it weird that everyone agrees that going sideways all the time is the most fun bit of driving, yet drifting has such a rubbish image.
The two issues I have with drifting scene are:-the stupid stickers and styling almost all seem adopt. Which generally makes nice look cars look like utter dog tripe.
-it's called a competition/motor sport but is then graded on peoples opinions rather than anything quantifiable.
And as a 3rd point, the stickers and stupid looking cars also lend themselves to a particular type of person and image.
That said the actual idea of drifting sounds very good. It's just the baggage the scene comes with as the biggest downer.
Jerry Can said:
a perfect example of a s
t car being driven well.
If you are revising for the Wyedean, make sure you spend some quality time on youtube. You know type in 'Wyedean rally 2012' or 2011, and see what comes up. Maybe check the the safety notes against an on board of the stage, just to make sure it's right?
It's not a st car being driven well. If you are revising for the Wyedean, make sure you spend some quality time on youtube. You know type in 'Wyedean rally 2012' or 2011, and see what comes up. Maybe check the the safety notes against an on board of the stage, just to make sure it's right?
t car though is it? It's a fun car to drive, that happens to be tough as hell.
doogz said:
Captain Muppet said:
Assuming that we can agree that the "motor" bit isn't the problem the only issue is with the "sport" tag.
It isn't judged entirely on style, but on technical stuff like line, angle, technique and control. Be as stylish as you like but miss a clipping point, drop some angle or use the handbrake the gay way and you get nothing. So it's a sport like diving, or gymnastics, or freestyle monster truck shizzle or boxing, in which the winner isn't the one with the fastest time but the one who did the things the judges were looking for the best.
Yes the judging is subjective, but then so is the judging in all the other judged sports.
It isn't judged entirely on style, but on technical stuff like line, angle, technique and control. Be as stylish as you like but miss a clipping point, drop some angle or use the handbrake the gay way and you get nothing. So it's a sport like diving, or gymnastics, or freestyle monster truck shizzle or boxing, in which the winner isn't the one with the fastest time but the one who did the things the judges were looking for the best.
Yes the judging is subjective, but then so is the judging in all the other judged sports.
No one pretends it isn't just an excuse to have fun.300bhp/ton said:
Captain Muppet said:
I find it weird that everyone agrees that going sideways all the time is the most fun bit of driving, yet drifting has such a rubbish image.
The two issues I have with drifting scene are:-the stupid stickers and styling almost all seem adopt. Which generally makes nice look cars look like utter dog tripe.
-it's called a competition/motor sport but is then graded on peoples opinions rather than anything quantifiable.
And as a 3rd point, the stickers and stupid looking cars also lend themselves to a particular type of person and image.
That said the actual idea of drifting sounds very good. It's just the baggage the scene comes with as the biggest downer.
As for the image, Barkston Heath has the same mix of cars and people as a normal track day, so don't let it put you off trying something fun. Less than £100 for a day there with Javelin (who will also rent you an MX5 and tyres).
Plus the majority of cars used for drifting look more like PH's E30 rally car, rather than the tat in the F&F films.
Captain Muppet said:
Lots of sports are graded on opinions: diving, gymnastics, boxing, you should try watching the olympics if it's ever on TV. Winter olympics next year for skating, freestyle skiing and snowboarding, which is just people skidding around trying to impress judges.
To a degree I agree. Although when I looked into the Drifting rules a year or so back, they seemed far more concerned with show boating and random "yes that was better" rather than anything truly technique or gradeable. So while gymnastics might be a judged sport there are as a rule specific routines and specific moves/techniques being looked for and scored to a far higher degree than drifting does.For example this from Wiki:
"Drifting competitions ... show factor."
"The show factor is based on multiple things, such as the amount of smoke"
"the crowd's reaction."
To me, these things just seem to woolly to actually judge with any degree of accuracy. And amount of smoke is a bit arbitrary depending on the tyres, tyres size and arguably engine/gearing. You could easily have a car making loads more smoke than another, getting a great crowd reaction but not actually being that good at all.
"Angle is the angle of a car and more importantly the turned wheels in a drift"
Again isn't this largely dependant on the vehicle, such as if FWD/RWD/AWD? Also track and wheels base.
"speed is the speed entering a turn, the speed through a turn, and the speed exiting the turn; faster is better."
And this ones always baffled me, how can you have something being judged on speed when you are not timing anything???
It seems as if the scores are just made up more than anything. 
Captain Muppet said:
As for the image, Barkston Heath has the same mix of cars and people as a normal track day, so don't let it put you off trying something fun. Less than £100 for a day there with Javelin (who will also rent you an MX5 and tyres).
Plus the majority of cars used for drifting look more like PH's E30 rally car, rather than the tat in the F&F films.
Good to know. Plus the majority of cars used for drifting look more like PH's E30 rally car, rather than the tat in the F&F films.
300bhp/ton said:
Captain Muppet said:
Lots of sports are graded on opinions: diving, gymnastics, boxing, you should try watching the olympics if it's ever on TV. Winter olympics next year for skating, freestyle skiing and snowboarding, which is just people skidding around trying to impress judges.
To a degree I agree. Although when I looked into the Drifting rules a year or so back, they seemed far more concerned with show boating and random "yes that was better" rather than anything truly technique or gradeable. So while gymnastics might be a judged sport there are as a rule specific routines and specific moves/techniques being looked for and scored to a far higher degree than drifting does.For example this from Wiki:
"Drifting competitions ... show factor."
"The show factor is based on multiple things, such as the amount of smoke"
"the crowd's reaction."
To me, these things just seem to woolly to actually judge with any degree of accuracy. And amount of smoke is a bit arbitrary depending on the tyres, tyres size and arguably engine/gearing. You could easily have a car making loads more smoke than another, getting a great crowd reaction but not actually being that good at all.
"Angle is the angle of a car and more importantly the turned wheels in a drift"
Again isn't this largely dependant on the vehicle, such as if FWD/RWD/AWD? Also track and wheels base.
"speed is the speed entering a turn, the speed through a turn, and the speed exiting the turn; faster is better."
And this ones always baffled me, how can you have something being judged on speed when you are not timing anything???
It seems as if the scores are just made up more than anything. The angle is dependant on the vehicle used. But the judges know the cars used, they know that an S-body Nissan will be stable at a larger angle than an MR2, so the abilities of the car are included in your score. It's why the scoring system can seem arbitary to those who haven't got a good range of experience of actually doing it. It's also why finding good judges is so hard.
You can judge speed without timing something (the radar gun on the first corner a Donnington said I was doing 70mph, but didn't record my overall time). In this case timing it would force drivers to reduce slide angle turning it in to a sprint rather than a sport where you get to drive sideways, which is the fun bit.
As a driver you can tell when you've made a good run, because you've been on the right line through the corner, you've hit the clipping points, your transitions have been snappy, your corner speed has been high, your throttle has been stable and so has your drift angle. Also you'll have used the techniques the judges have asked for in the briefing - they may limit the techniques available to make it harder to complete a run. It's way more technical than a quick wiki would suggest - miss the driver's breifing and you won't really know what's going on.
The scoring for twin drift is much simpler. If you can keep up with the lead car with a tiny gap between the cars and you have the same angle you draw. Spin, lose angle, get left behind and you lose. You get one chance to lead and one chance to follow. Spin at any point and you get nothing. If there is a draw you go again until someone makes a mistake or their Nissan dies.
The main thing to remember is that all of the rules are entirely made up to give the drivers an excuse to do the thing thats fun.
Car is back and about to have its first PH Smiley applied.
If anyone spectating manages to grab a video clip of it going past very slowly, please get in contact via twitter or this thread to forward it, because it would help enormously with the video.
Thanks in advance
Chris
P.S. It looks v.v.v.v.v.slippy
If anyone spectating manages to grab a video clip of it going past very slowly, please get in contact via twitter or this thread to forward it, because it would help enormously with the video.
Thanks in advance
Chris
P.S. It looks v.v.v.v.v.slippy
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