RE: Ringside Seat: winter tyred
Discussion
Limpet said:
I've been in Sweden this week for work, and the way snow is such a complete non-event for these countries is eye opening for your average Brit. Not only did my flights run bang on time, but the taxis got me about, the trains worked, and despite several inches of snow in Stockholm on Wednesday, the airport functioned perfectly well. As of course it always does in these situations.
Apart from the major roads which were clear, there was a good layer of compacted snow on the smaller roads, but by using winter tyres, and driving to the conditions, it doesn't bother the locals at all.
My Swedish colleagues were actually surprised at my surprise, apart from those who had been to the UK in winter who were more understanding
I've been in Norway for the last week and it's the same, it snows and nothing stops or changes.Landed back last night and we got weather forecasts for sever weather for the 10th Feb on the gantry. Why? It serves no purpose to me now (on the 8th) and is just another example of ppl using that excuse for no to do anything. Apart from the major roads which were clear, there was a good layer of compacted snow on the smaller roads, but by using winter tyres, and driving to the conditions, it doesn't bother the locals at all.
My Swedish colleagues were actually surprised at my surprise, apart from those who had been to the UK in winter who were more understanding
Slowly and slowly we are becoming a nation that is losing it's get up and go attitude,losing the ability to shrug things off our shoulders. I've spent winters in Romania and Norway and these 'severe' weather warnings are more like an average winter day for them.
I disagree with this article. Aside from the fact that there are a lot of motorists in the UK who need their cars to earn a living but barely scrape by and can't afford any extra costs involved in motoring, I don't like the idea of imposing rules on people to compensate for bad drivers.
I've never been stuck in snow and to date I've only had an issue in snow with one car which was a 2010 Fiesta rental because the tyres were over inflated and I was trying to go up a steep hill. I did make it, I didn't hold many people up (at most it was 3 minutes), but it was definitely more of a struggle than it should have been and if I'd thought myself or the car incapable of doing what I was asking, I would've turned around and used a different route.
Aside from this singular event in 2010, I've always been okay in the snow. I adjust my driving for the conditions, if it's wet or icy I allow more time to stop and drive a little slower (though I'm not someone who does 10mph because of a touch of rain). I don't see why I should ultimately have to pay out extra because a lot of people don't have common sense. Include a part in the theory test involving hazardous weather condition driving, hell, make a certificate for hazardous weather condition driving and have people take this if they want to prove competence above that of other drivers. I'll happily do that if it means cheaper insurance and whatnot, but don't force me to fk about with tyres that are going to cost more than the bargain ones I usually put on vehicles just because there are a lot of people who are utterly useless as soon as a snowflake hits the windscreen.
I've never been stuck in snow and to date I've only had an issue in snow with one car which was a 2010 Fiesta rental because the tyres were over inflated and I was trying to go up a steep hill. I did make it, I didn't hold many people up (at most it was 3 minutes), but it was definitely more of a struggle than it should have been and if I'd thought myself or the car incapable of doing what I was asking, I would've turned around and used a different route.
Aside from this singular event in 2010, I've always been okay in the snow. I adjust my driving for the conditions, if it's wet or icy I allow more time to stop and drive a little slower (though I'm not someone who does 10mph because of a touch of rain). I don't see why I should ultimately have to pay out extra because a lot of people don't have common sense. Include a part in the theory test involving hazardous weather condition driving, hell, make a certificate for hazardous weather condition driving and have people take this if they want to prove competence above that of other drivers. I'll happily do that if it means cheaper insurance and whatnot, but don't force me to fk about with tyres that are going to cost more than the bargain ones I usually put on vehicles just because there are a lot of people who are utterly useless as soon as a snowflake hits the windscreen.
LOGiK - there's a huge flaw in your argument. Your skills may be sufficient to manage in the winter with tyres that are inadequate for the conditions, but the majority of people are average drivers. Some of those will have accidents, most will not attempt the journey. In which case what's the point in you being a skilful driver with inadequate tyres when most businesses/schools are closed anyway?
I moved to Poland 6 years ago. Everyone here changes to winter tyres when the weather turns. Everything stays open. People don't have excuses not to turn up for work.
I'm astounded that the UK continues to deny how useful winter tyres are whilst the rest of Europe laughs at us.
I moved to Poland 6 years ago. Everyone here changes to winter tyres when the weather turns. Everything stays open. People don't have excuses not to turn up for work.
I'm astounded that the UK continues to deny how useful winter tyres are whilst the rest of Europe laughs at us.
Don't even need a second set of tyres in the UK.
I bought good quality All-Season tyres for my Clio Cup last year and was surprised there was virtually no difference in handling/braking in hot weather and hardly worn in 6k of mixed driving, yet tested back-to-back they have 80% of the grip of the full 'winters' fitted on our old Focus... so still extremely good in the ice and snow of the Midlands so far this winter.
The Hankook V12 performance tyres are still in the shed!
As you can see, they simply have summer compound and tread pattern on the outside, and winter compound and pattern including sipes (for ice traction) on the inside. M&S tyres are no good unless rated with the snowflake symbol, which these Vredestein Quatrac's are ;
I bought good quality All-Season tyres for my Clio Cup last year and was surprised there was virtually no difference in handling/braking in hot weather and hardly worn in 6k of mixed driving, yet tested back-to-back they have 80% of the grip of the full 'winters' fitted on our old Focus... so still extremely good in the ice and snow of the Midlands so far this winter.
The Hankook V12 performance tyres are still in the shed!
As you can see, they simply have summer compound and tread pattern on the outside, and winter compound and pattern including sipes (for ice traction) on the inside. M&S tyres are no good unless rated with the snowflake symbol, which these Vredestein Quatrac's are ;
Summer tyres don't work properly in cold conditions. Winter tyres are proven to work in the cold environment, and are required here in my province (Quebec). None of this stops people from driving like loons at the first sign of a snowflake, even though it happens every year; at least it has since I unfortunately moved here over 14 years ago from a much warmer place.
Dale Lomas said:
What's the beef with this? I shovel away morning and night, then spread salt every few days. I mean, they thrust it upon you at every garage forecourt and supermarket checkout. I thought "why not?"
I got such an apoleptic b
king off the landlord the other night, and nobody's said why. Certainly he didn't!
They claim it's bad for the environment - the salt creats alkaline soil which damages trees and the like along the roads. The quote I heard was "salt belongs on breakfast eggs, not on the pavement". Hmmm.....I got such an apoleptic b
king off the landlord the other night, and nobody's said why. Certainly he didn't!You can also get fined for letting your car idle to warm it up - 30 euros!
Thud_Mcguffin said:
They claim it's bad for the environment - the salt creats alkaline soil which damages trees and the like along the roads. The quote I heard was "salt belongs on breakfast eggs, not on the pavement". Hmmm.....
You can also get fined for letting your car idle to warm it up - 30 euros!
Salt is baaaaaaad: soils, surface water, groundwater, it gets sodding everywhere and aside from immediate application to tarmac, serves NO purpose whatsoever in such concentrations.You can also get fined for letting your car idle to warm it up - 30 euros!
wombat172a said:
Godwin's law in 3 posts! Well done sir!
+1 - a perfect demonstration! Winter tyres are a social game: living in Highland Scotland, every individual who fits winter tyres benefits, but to nothing like the same extent they would if everyone were to fit them - the biggest hazard for winter-tyre equipped cars in poor conditions are all the idjits (coll.) still on summer tyres and wondering why the laws of physics should apply to them. Having lived/worked in both Germany and Russia, I just despair of the inability of many British to just take responsibility for their actions and the impact they have on others. There are really very, very few occasions here when the weather should cause more than a day's disruption to transport (which happens in France/Germany etc when there's a heavy fall) and my German friends simply can't understand why schools close when snow is even threatened here.
Technomad said:
wombat172a said:
Godwin's law in 3 posts! Well done sir!
+1 - a perfect demonstration! Winter tyres are a social game: living in Highland Scotland, every individual who fits winter tyres benefits, but to nothing like the same extent they would if everyone were to fit them - the biggest hazard for winter-tyre equipped cars in poor conditions are all the idjits (coll.) still on summer tyres and wondering why the laws of physics should apply to them. Having lived/worked in both Germany and Russia, I just despair of the inability of many British to just take responsibility for their actions and the impact they have on others. There are really very, very few occasions here when the weather should cause more than a day's disruption to transport (which happens in France/Germany etc when there's a heavy fall) and my German friends simply can't understand why schools close when snow is even threatened here.Without sounding big headed I am a trained driver, it is my job.
I got caught out on some ice when going over a well disguised bridge, stuffed it and lost plenty of no claims bonus. The following winter i chose to kit out both cars in our house, by ebay hunting, ordering tyres online and doing some homework I managed to kit out 2 cars with tyres and rims for $450 ish. Consider I run both cars on those for 4 months over 2/3 winters the cost really isnt much, especially when you factor in the cost of conti sport contacts for the summer!
I know alot of people have said this but dont knock them till you try them - they really work! it turns an undriveable carin snow and ice into a car with plenty of grip, and as has been said, just run them in colder conditions - they work.
I got caught out on some ice when going over a well disguised bridge, stuffed it and lost plenty of no claims bonus. The following winter i chose to kit out both cars in our house, by ebay hunting, ordering tyres online and doing some homework I managed to kit out 2 cars with tyres and rims for $450 ish. Consider I run both cars on those for 4 months over 2/3 winters the cost really isnt much, especially when you factor in the cost of conti sport contacts for the summer!
I know alot of people have said this but dont knock them till you try them - they really work! it turns an undriveable carin snow and ice into a car with plenty of grip, and as has been said, just run them in colder conditions - they work.
Planning on getting a second set of wheels for winter tyres this year. Going to use them over the summer for a few track days to kill off the tyres if they're any good, then stick some winter tyres on them ready for October/November. My boss has a set on his car and seems to swear by them. They're not just for snow after all, their performance in the rain and cold makes them worth their while over here.
alock said:
And those northerners can buy winter tyres if it suits them 
The only point I was making is that millions of us in the south cope just fine and hence any sort of legislation to mandate winter tyres for the whole of the UK is wrong.
What about the other millions of drivers who have cars with torque ? The only point I was making is that millions of us in the south cope just fine and hence any sort of legislation to mandate winter tyres for the whole of the UK is wrong.
I never felt the need for winter tyres during my first 20 years of driving but I started using winter tyres 3 years ago and I now know just how much more traction, lateral grip and braking grip they offer relative to summer tyres. Rather than make them compulsory purchase I would completely agree with an insurance company voiding the policy of someone who didn't have them fitted in adverse conditions.
That's odd. I was just discussing this topic with my colleagues in the office I work in(Hanburg Germany).
They tell me there is no legal need to change them unless you have an accident, if you do then you are seem as luanle even if not your fault and you will be person to pay all costs (forget the insurance paying out). Maybe the law is by state.
They say the unwritten rule is "winter tyres O to O". Which is October to Easter in English.
I have nothing more than 5 conversations with native Germans this week - who find my need to jump up every 2-3 hours and say "it's snowing" when I catch it out the window- rather amusing!
They tell me there is no legal need to change them unless you have an accident, if you do then you are seem as luanle even if not your fault and you will be person to pay all costs (forget the insurance paying out). Maybe the law is by state.
They say the unwritten rule is "winter tyres O to O". Which is October to Easter in English.
I have nothing more than 5 conversations with native Germans this week - who find my need to jump up every 2-3 hours and say "it's snowing" when I catch it out the window- rather amusing!
wombat172a said:
Godwin's law in 3 posts! Well done sir!
+1 - a perfect demonstration! Winter tyres are a social game: living in Highland Scotland, every individual who fits winter tyres benefits, but to nothing like the same extent they would if everyone were to fit them - the biggest hazard for winter-tyre equipped cars in poor conditions are all the idjits (coll.) still on summer tyres and wondering why the laws of physics should apply to them. Having lived/worked in both Germany and Russia, I just despair of the inability of many British to just take responsibility for their actions and the impact they have on others. There are really very, very few occasions here when the weather should cause more than a day's disruption to transport (which happens in France/Germany etc when there's a heavy fall) and my German friends simply can't understand why schools close when snow is even threatened here.wombat172a said:
Godwin's law in 3 posts! Well done sir!
+1 - a perfect demonstration! Winter tyres are a social game: living in Highland Scotland, every individual who fits winter tyres benefits, but to nothing like the same extent they would if everyone were to fit them - the biggest hazard for winter-tyre equipped cars in poor conditions are all the idjits (coll.) still on summer tyres and wondering why the laws of physics should apply to them. Having lived/worked in both Germany and Russia, I just despair of the inability of many British to just take responsibility for their actions and the impact they have on others. There are really very, very few occasions here when the weather should cause more than a day's disruption to transport (which happens in France/Germany etc when there's a heavy fall) and my German friends simply can't understand why schools close when snow is even threatened here.eddieantifreeze said:
Without sounding big headed I am a trained driver, it is my job.
I got caught out on some ice when going over a well disguised bridge, stuffed it and lost plenty of no claims bonus. The following winter i chose to kit out both cars in our house, by ebay hunting, ordering tyres online and doing some homework I managed to kit out 2 cars with tyres and rims for $450 ish. Consider I run both cars on those for 4 months over 2/3 winters the cost really isnt much, especially when you factor in the cost of conti sport contacts for the summer!
I know alot of people have said this but dont knock them till you try them - they really work! it turns an undriveable carin snow and ice into a car with plenty of grip, and as has been said, just run them in colder conditions - they work.
Winter tyres have very poor grip on ice.I got caught out on some ice when going over a well disguised bridge, stuffed it and lost plenty of no claims bonus. The following winter i chose to kit out both cars in our house, by ebay hunting, ordering tyres online and doing some homework I managed to kit out 2 cars with tyres and rims for $450 ish. Consider I run both cars on those for 4 months over 2/3 winters the cost really isnt much, especially when you factor in the cost of conti sport contacts for the summer!
I know alot of people have said this but dont knock them till you try them - they really work! it turns an undriveable carin snow and ice into a car with plenty of grip, and as has been said, just run them in colder conditions - they work.
dvs_dave said:
Why don't UK spec cars have all season M+S tyres fitted as standard like they do in the USA? It snows in the US, everything carries on largely as normal. It gets super hot too, everything carries on as normal. 99% of cars have all season M+S tyres fitted year round, and people here only know how to drive badly, regardless of the conditions.
Would keep things moving much better and overall more safely throughout the year, and the UK has a climate that is much more in the sweet spot of all season tyres than the US.
All season tyres are a compromise too, not as good in the winter as pure winter tyres and worse performance than a summer tyre in warmer weather.Would keep things moving much better and overall more safely throughout the year, and the UK has a climate that is much more in the sweet spot of all season tyres than the US.
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