RE: Ringside Seat: winter tyred
Discussion
sisu said:
iamAlegend said:
I think instead of mandatory winters, the minimum tread depth should be brought up, this will help a lot in the wet and snowy conditions.
Wrong answer. Tyres are effected by temperature as much as the stuff they drive on. The rubber hardens and you get effected by the mysterious 'black ice' that Britain uses as an excuse for crashing on a frosty morning. 
I could barely get out of the parking lot in front of my apartment, let alone drive the car in and out of the underground garage. On the road, I've had several occasions where the car actually went nowhere. The most "handy" solution was to "power out of it", actually doing a burnout and waiting until the tyres heat up the underground enough to get moving again. Needless to say I finished the summer tyres in about 4-5 days of driving in the snow.
I managed to finally find winter tyres, in the form of Pirelli Sottozeros, albeit rear sizes 305/35R20, and they really work in the snow. The car is actually driveable again, so yes, Pirelli's slogan actually is true
liner33 said:
Being a Southerner average temps dont drop much below 8 degrees in depths of winter for me, on the one day so far this year snow tyres would have been of use everywhere was closed , the schools, the offices and the roads were blocked by those people who dont understand they need to adapt their driving in winter.
If you cant go anywhere it doesnt matter what tyres you have on the car
+1If you cant go anywhere it doesnt matter what tyres you have on the car
Really not mandatory for Southern England. On our one snow day of this year, we had barely any lying snow at the coast and the inland stuff was easily passable within 12 hours. The rest of the time, most cars have plenty of grip out of normal summer tyres even in the wet.
I managed to drive my 300bhp TVR to work every day, every winter for 10 years. Of course I was using the concepts of "throttle control" and "anticipation" which seem to evade the majority of the motoring public.
My brother lives in Scotland, totally different story up there!
Winters are also great fun for drifting around on when the sun comes out as the grip is lower than a full Summer tyre. Still that's no bad thing at all! I love having the car move around more on the Winters!! Then the car feels like a suspension upgrade in Spring when the Summers go back on.
Plus it keeps the RWD Merc keeps moving when all other RWD cars around are sliding about going backwards. Oh and the Summers last longer as they only get used for 9 months a year.
Top fun. Definitely seen more winter tyres this year than ever before (Unscientific car park survey)
Plus it keeps the RWD Merc keeps moving when all other RWD cars around are sliding about going backwards. Oh and the Summers last longer as they only get used for 9 months a year.
Top fun. Definitely seen more winter tyres this year than ever before (Unscientific car park survey)
Peter Leighton said:
Surely this matter will be taken out of our hands. As soon as the insurance companys realise they have a "Get out of Jail Free" card they will refuse to pay out when accidents occur in winter conditions, without the appropriate tyres fitted.
Absolutely. They'll use any excuse. The law probably doesn't need to change. If insurance companies start doing that, then you are driving uninsured, so you are de facto breaking the law. The trick that the insurers have to pull off, is to introduce these rules at the correct time to maximise a windfall profit, without a huge public outcry (which could waken the Ombudsman). I bet they do it well, the w
s. I suggest buying winter tyres anyway, to make sure they pay out.On the winter tyre debate; it has been proven so many times that winter tyres offer more safety at higher speeds in snow than summer tyres, however, I don't use them on all my cars, because I drive to the traction limits for the conditions. Summer tyres are fine for most conditions, if used sensibly. I sometimes don't get around to changing them, so adapt my driving style.
I must disagree with Dale about the lack of fuss in Germany when it snows. It only takes one mistake to hold up the traffic, and it happens in Germany also. You can't conclude anything about the standards of driving in each country when it may depend on one individual's mistake creating a large hold up.
I think the law in Germany (or so I've heard, and not actually read) is that when the temperature drops to +5° or below for more than five days, then one should change to winter tyres. Occasionally there are mild winters, so it would be pointless to change tyres. I think that's fair, if true.
sc0tt said:
A winter tyre news article at the end of winter.
Someone forget to hit "Publish"?
went to the 'ring in April a few years back and it was covered in snow. on the return journey we passed through a blizzard. so though timing in respect of the UK is a bit off, it still holds revelance in NW Germany.Someone forget to hit "Publish"?
i am pretty tired over hearing about this country not coping with snow. we are just not geared up for it because the cost of doing so outweighs the benefits; we just don't have the consistent severe winters other countries have to justify the spend. furthermore, with today's age of remote IT access (RSA tokens, etc)actual loss of business output due to poor weather is lessoning.
Of course winter tyres are a good idea. but they should not be made mandatory in this country. when out at the Ring in that April we met a dutch guy (E39 meet, i believe). when we complained about the track conditions he asked 'but aren't you on winter tyres?'. to which we replied "no" in a 'fack, what a foreign concept' way. he frankly looked astonished by this.
I work in Quebec, and winter tyres are mandatory fom mid December through to March, and given the temperatures and snowfall over winter there it makes a lot of sense (current daytime temperature in Montreal in -15C)
As for the UK, there is no doubt our winters are nothing like as severe, but we can get caught out with low temperatures and snow, so I would always have one vehicle set up to be able to battle through the worst of conditions.
My Aston currently has winters on, as the P Zero Corsas aren't recommended below 7C, and I want to be able to enjoy hooning over the winter months. And for every day use, an A6 Avant - without winter tyres, but a Quattro, and seems okay so far this winter.
As for the UK, there is no doubt our winters are nothing like as severe, but we can get caught out with low temperatures and snow, so I would always have one vehicle set up to be able to battle through the worst of conditions.
My Aston currently has winters on, as the P Zero Corsas aren't recommended below 7C, and I want to be able to enjoy hooning over the winter months. And for every day use, an A6 Avant - without winter tyres, but a Quattro, and seems okay so far this winter.
Can the same be said for those using winter tyres on a dry road in warmer conditions? Stopping distances reduced etc? I think so. I have never bothered with winter tyres as I won't drive a performance car in the dry warmer conditions. It eliminates having a performance car. I buy a 4wd Subaru in winter and have never had a problem, a lot easier than changing wheels.
Lucas Ayde said:
That's not my experience at all. As temps hit double digits, even on dry roads they are very 'squirmy' and prone to losing traction as evidenced by my stability control lights flashing under acceleration.
I once drove on a new set of Winters through a central-European Summer and although you could certainly drive on them with care, you really needed to take them into account at all times.
It's a balancing act - I keep mine on in the UK from Dec through Feb when they definitely offer an advantage in the conditions that I typically experience. I wouldn't keep them on much longer than mid-March though and generally wouldn't put them on much before Mid-Nov.
Exactly. There are two problems in the UK with winter tyres:I once drove on a new set of Winters through a central-European Summer and although you could certainly drive on them with care, you really needed to take them into account at all times.
It's a balancing act - I keep mine on in the UK from Dec through Feb when they definitely offer an advantage in the conditions that I typically experience. I wouldn't keep them on much longer than mid-March though and generally wouldn't put them on much before Mid-Nov.
1) We don't get that much snow, and not every year, unlike Germany
2) If you remember a few weeks back it was -2 and snowing one week and +10 the next, now its down to 0. It's all well and good saying "they are better under 7C" but unlike Germany the temp swings up and down. It can be -2 one week and +10 the next. Should we keep choping and changing or stick to one tyre and take care?
Winter tyres in the UK are not that much use (Outside of Scotland).
Lets not forget as well that it will cost more. Tred is not the only problem on tyres, age is also a problem. A set of tyres starts to go off after about 2 years. Your better off on new all weather tyres (Not summer as people keep saying. We don't have true summer tyres normaly in the UK) than 4-5 year old winter tyres.
Finaly, can we please stop all this "Well other countries don't grind to a halt" nonsense. People keep pointing to flights being stopped, yet forget London has the busiest air space in the world and Heathrow is the busiest international airport and Gatwick has the busiest runway. Like driving it all starts to back up when there is not much slack. On the roads we just don't have the snow ploughs because they are just not worth it in the UK.
The problem from what I have seen is not the need for tyres, or poor driving in winter, but that mistakes that people get away with the rest of the year they are punnished for when it gets icy or snows.
Edited by PaulMoor on Friday 8th February 14:36
PaulMoor said:
Exactly. There are two problems in the UK with winter tyres:
1) We don't get that much snow, and not every year, unlike Germany
2) If you remember a few weeks back it was -2 and snowing one week and +10 the next, now its down to 0. It's all well and good saying "they are better under 7C" but unlike Germany the temp swings up and down. It can be -2 one week and +10 the next. Should we keep choping and changing or stick to one tyre and take care?
Winter tyres in the UK are not that much use (Outside of Scotland).
There are hundred page threads on this topic.1) We don't get that much snow, and not every year, unlike Germany
2) If you remember a few weeks back it was -2 and snowing one week and +10 the next, now its down to 0. It's all well and good saying "they are better under 7C" but unlike Germany the temp swings up and down. It can be -2 one week and +10 the next. Should we keep choping and changing or stick to one tyre and take care?
Winter tyres in the UK are not that much use (Outside of Scotland).
Suffice to say that winter tyres do not suddenly become unusable at 10 degrees. In any cas, on a weekday, most of us do our driving in the mornings and evenings when temperatures are below their daily peak. I've seen 8 degrees on one morning since Christmas on London.
Interesting to know if BMW are ok on winter tyres. My experience with 2mm of snow in a 520 and with some snow or indeed anything slightly slippy in my 320 means that i wouldnt risk having both cars RWD. I suspect winter tyres would still not give a BMW the traction of a front wheel drive focus? As a result my next car has to be FWD or 4WD to go with my RWD BMW, which has to stay indoors if it is cold out.
Love this debate, a lot of people don't seem to grasp others do not need ot agree with them.
My experience -
E36 BMW - fine in the snow & slush etc down south. Never had a problem, couldn't understand anyone else’s - winter tyres were more morons.
S2000 - fine in the winter, just drove it to conditions. Then I fitted winter tyres as I needed a new set and it was the ideal time.
The difference was impressive - enough for me to now say that I will always run winters as long as I am in a position to do so.
For me, I don't commute far at all and the long trips I take are social and not work related. However, the better control winters give mean I have been able to enjoy my cars performance and been able to get out on virgin roads more.
If I hadn't of fitted them when I did, I'd still be on 'summer' tyres and looking at winters as a waste of money. Fact is I really do feel the benefit.
Should there be a law for them? NO.
Should people be advised correctly on the benefits and cons of them? YES.
Then everyone can make their mind up and stop arguing
My experience -
E36 BMW - fine in the snow & slush etc down south. Never had a problem, couldn't understand anyone else’s - winter tyres were more morons.
S2000 - fine in the winter, just drove it to conditions. Then I fitted winter tyres as I needed a new set and it was the ideal time.
The difference was impressive - enough for me to now say that I will always run winters as long as I am in a position to do so.
For me, I don't commute far at all and the long trips I take are social and not work related. However, the better control winters give mean I have been able to enjoy my cars performance and been able to get out on virgin roads more.
If I hadn't of fitted them when I did, I'd still be on 'summer' tyres and looking at winters as a waste of money. Fact is I really do feel the benefit.
Should there be a law for them? NO.
Should people be advised correctly on the benefits and cons of them? YES.
Then everyone can make their mind up and stop arguing
MikeyBoy2000 said:
Yep - it's definitely PLUS 7 celsius and below for winters to work well, but that doesn't mean they are a disaster above that and they certainly have other benefits - better water displacement in the rain, wet stopping distances etc. A certain car mag did a winter tyre test recently - made for good reading.
Been using them on my Focus ST for 5 winters now - can't recommend them enough.
Dale is 100% bang on with this thread...
Completely agree, I have Avon Ice Tourings on my M5 and its fantastic not only in snow (better than a Range Rover on Summer tyres) but also in slush, rain and just plain cold or frosty roads. Spare set of cheap wheels, swap 'em in November/December, swap them back in a couple of weeks time.Been using them on my Focus ST for 5 winters now - can't recommend them enough.
Dale is 100% bang on with this thread...
Birzzles said:
Interesting to know if BMW are ok on winter tyres. My experience with 2mm of snow in a 520 and with some snow or indeed anything slightly slippy in my 320 means that i wouldnt risk having both cars RWD. I suspect winter tyres would still not give a BMW the traction of a front wheel drive focus? As a result my next car has to be FWD or 4WD to go with my RWD BMW, which has to stay indoors if it is cold out.
They transform a BMW into something that will get up snow-covered hills that defeat SUVs not on winter tyres. Take it from someone who's driven M3s and M5s for years on winter tyres and who has left plenty of SUVs struggling at the bottom of the hill.velocgee said:
I am pretty tired over hearing about this country not coping with snow. We are just not geared up for it because the cost of doing so outweighs the benefits. We just don't have the consistent severe winters other countries have to justify the spend. Furthermore, with today's age of remote IT access (RSA tokens, etc)actual loss of business output due to poor weather is lessoning.
The loss of business may be lessoning as soon as we get heavy snow the UK loses millions of pounds as the place grinds to a halt not to mention all the car accidents. Whilst not making it compulsory, drivers causing blockages and accidents should be fined. That leaves everyone with a choice.Pip
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