RE: Porsche 911 turns 50

[stuckmojo]

smilo996 said:

Yawn. Driven 2 Porkas. A 911 turbo from the early 90's which to be honest was dangerous. Great until it let go without warning. When it did, difficult to correct. A dinner table sized spoiler on the back trying to make up for the engine being in the wrong place, plain & simple.
4wd 99?. Better but only because of the 4WD. Sounds terrible & roots in the Beetle.
Apart from being easy to drive round Chelsea what on earth is the attraction of a car that looks 50 years old, sounds aweful & is difficult to drive unless you have a really modern one?
Contraversial I know but really.

Wow, very interesting contribution, thanks for sharing this.

[loudlashadjuster]

Is PH a Californian teen? No?

In that case please refrain from starting articles with "So ".

PistonHeads. Journalism Matters.

As for the 911, after being indifferent to them until my late 20s I've grown to like them of late and who knows, may even end up owning one at some point!

[Niffty951]

A cover picture of rumps and no 993 turbo (shakes head in total disapproval).

For absolute driving pleasure the earliest 911s might have won the adult me over and for technical prowess the 997.2 turbo may be in a league above but when it comes to weak at the knees beauty, the back end of the 993 turbo is not just the most beautiful 911 but the most beautiful arse in the world.

p.s. no tennis photos

[carlosbutler]

OlberJ said:

Ummm, it's a 2+2 sports coupe that's rear Engined.

That's not changed in 50years.

So same setup, honed for 50years.

Any other cars that are the same?

Hard one that, or not... how about every other car on the planet with an engine at the front.

I love old 911's, but don't come up with bullst.

[Captain Muppet]

carlosbutler said:

OlberJ said:

Ummm, it's a 2+2 sports coupe that's rear Engined.

That's not changed in 50years.

So same setup, honed for 50years.

Any other cars that are the same?

Hard one that, or not... how about every other car on the planet with an engine at the front.

I love old 911's, but don't come up with bullst.

The Corvette started in 1953, so ten years older than the 911.

[Lordglenmorangie]

You either get it or you don't , nobody will make you buy one

[ZesPak]

Twincam16 said:

rtz62 said:

I've never understood the logic behind saying things like 'the 911 is 50 yrs old' or the 'Golf is the best selling car ever, its sold 11-teen billion cars'.
Pish-tosh.
The ONLY thing that is 50yrs old is the name, the only thing that has sold 11-teen billion is the name.
There is nothing in common for either vehicle that is on sale now with its first ancestor other than a name.
Or am I being a Luddite antediluvian???

No, I think you've got a valid point. The worst offender being the Toyota Corrola which switched from RWD to FWD at some point in the '80s and yet in the sales charts they still try to pass off as the same car.

I don't think there's anything wrong with separating aircooled and water-cooled 911s. The only think they really have in common is a rear-mounted flat-six - other than that, nothing is interchangeable. In fact, Porsche's internal coding system changed decisively with the 964. Before then they'd been known as 911A/B/C/D etc. From the 964 onwards they weren't known internally as 911s (even if they were advanced developments of them), and from the 996 onwards '911' has been little more than a badge to tap into the familiarity of the design. I don't see why they just didn't call it the 996 and have done. I refer to the current model as the 991.

If you're looking for real continuous sports car design, the Caterham Seven and Morgan Plus Four spring to mind - and both predate the 911 by quite some way.

Agreed completely.
Mercedes missed the boat by not-naming the W15, W136, W120, W121 and W110 the "E-Class", otherwise they could claim the same, over 80 years of the same formula! (4 door luxury, front engined, RWD)

Don't get me wrong, I love the 911, but claiming it turns "50" and it has sold XXXXXX examples is just . It's like saying Louis of France reigned for over 200 years.

[WillBrumBrum]

[Mermaid]

WillBrumBrum said:

, just need to sort out the roads. Will be OK for North America & China.

[PascalBuyens]

Twincam16 said:

If you're looking for real continuous sports car design, the Caterham Seven and Morgan Plus Four spring to mind - and both predate the 911 by quite some way.

Caterham only bought the design of the Lotus Seven in 1973 IIRC...

[OlberJ]

carlosbutler said:

OlberJ said:

Ummm, it's a 2+2 sports coupe that's rear Engined.

That's not changed in 50years.

So same setup, honed for 50years.

Any other cars that are the same?

Hard one that, or not... how about every other car on the planet with an engine at the front.

I love old 911's, but don't come up with bullsh!t.

I'll try explaining a little slower.

Any rear engined 2 + 2's that have been about for 50 years?

It's what makes it a 911 and it's been the same for all this time, it's also sporting the same basic sillhouette to a degree.

They tried changing it with the 928 and it didn't float, the 911 is what it is, it works, it sells and the thing that makes it a 911 hasn't changed in all that time.

The Cayman point was tongue in cheek.

[993RSGT3]

Water cooled series does look lardy next to the aircooleds

[Mermaid]

OlberJ said:

I'll try explaining a little slower.

Any rear engined 2 + 2's that have been about for 50 years?

It's what makes it a 911 and it's been the same for all this time, it's also sporting the same basic sillhouette to a degree.

the 911 is what it is, it works, it sells and the thing that makes it a 911 hasn't changed in all that time.

T.

Corvair tried & failed



Other examples ; Renault Dauphine/8/10, Hillman Imp, Fiat 500/600/850 & some more I cannot think of right now.

[xRIEx]

PascalBuyens said:

Twincam16 said:

If you're looking for real continuous sports car design, the Caterham Seven and Morgan Plus Four spring to mind - and both predate the 911 by quite some way.

Caterham only bought the design of the Lotus Seven in 1973 IIRC...

Well that's the point, they bought the design, not just the name, and the design has continued.

[sleep envy]

993RSGT3 said:

Water cooled series does look lardy next to the aircooleds

oh my!

[161BMW]

993RSGT3 said:

Water cooled series does look lardy next to the aircooleds

Dunno what u do for a living but beautiful sir

That 993 looks ezquisite

My fav 911s in no particular order

997.2 GTS Coupe Manual - great all rounder beautiful last of the line etc
993 Turbo Manual - beautiful very fast
993.2 C2S Coupe Manual - very very beautiful quick in the 90s
One of those 80s guards red turbos driven by the Yuppies - no idea what is called - just a proper 80s car
997.2 GT3 RS 4.0 - don't know much about it but heard good things about it
996 Turbo - lusted after one since 1999 Earls Court Motor Show and have a poster of one. Was in school then doing GCSEs/A Levels

Edited by 161BMW on Tuesday 12th February 12:45

[Twincam16]

PascalBuyens said:

Twincam16 said:

If you're looking for real continuous sports car design, the Caterham Seven and Morgan Plus Four spring to mind - and both predate the 911 by quite some way.

Caterham only bought the design of the Lotus Seven in 1973 IIRC...

Yes, but Lotus had been honing it since the Mark VI of 1952. It is still, in essence, the same car. Granted they use a broader selection of materials and different engines, but the car has specifically been evolved bit-by-bit over time.

By contrast there was a step-change between the 993 and 996. Not one part is interchangeable between the two, it's got completely different suspension, the engine's different and the body is a different size (perhaps reflecting that the 928 had been discontinued along with the 993 and it needed to be as much a GT as a sports car).

Also, mechanically the 996's engine was derived from the 959's, and has always been a water-cooled unit developed separately from the aircooled car.

In some ways you could say that the Cayman is closer in spirit to the 911 than the 991, which I see as more of a cross between 959 development and 928 replacement. The only water-cooled 911s that seem anything like the original 911 design are the GT2s.

[Josco010]

Its funny seeing the 2 cars side by side i just realized how pretty the old car was (probably reason i fell in love with them as a 5 year old) and the progression to ugliness by the current crop, okay more aggressive but non the less more ugly. So i now know precisely what model to go for when time comes

[sleep envy]

Twincam16 said:

In some ways you could say that the Cayman is closer in spirit to the 911 than the 991, which I see as more of a cross between 959 development and 928 replacement. The only water-cooled 911s that seem anything like the original 911 design are the GT2s.

You what?

GT2?

[vinnie83]

smilo996 said:

Yawn. Driven 2 Porkas. A 911 turbo from the early 90's which to be honest was dangerous. Great until it let go without warning. When it did, difficult to correct. A dinner table sized spoiler on the back trying to make up for the engine being in the wrong place, plain & simple.

Erm, you do know that the spoiler was as such as it housed the intercooler, right?

Glad you made sure you knew what you were talking about before posting!