RE: PH Fleet: Renault Megane 265 Cup

[Dblue]

405dogvan said:

Dblue said:

Its a perfectly well made and refined mode of transport that doesn't break, doesn't rattle , and costs average amounts of money to run.

Pass on my regards to this poster's family, his death as the irony bomb crashed into his skull was actually quite funny but the mess is terrible.

You realise you posted that about a RENAULT!?

a RENAULT!!

I don't understand a word of this.

[ant leigh]

blearyeyedboy said:

doors you can't open in a tight car park...

I am really struggling to understand the door issue here.
On any car park if you have a car in the next bay you cannot fully open the door no matter how big or small the door. If there is nothing in the next bay you can open any door.

Access space is not how LONG the door is but how thick it is and how far you can open it. Thats the same no matter how long the door is. Or is my geometry out of date?

Just as with the door non-issue the problem with the articles list of 'niggles' is that a number of them appear to be nonsense and/or picky in the extreme.

[Arun_D]

ant leigh said:

I am really struggling to understand the door issue here.
On any car park if you have a car in the next bay you cannot fully open the door no matter how big or small the door. If there is nothing in the next bay you can open any door.

Access space is not how LONG the door is but how thick it is and how far you can open it. Thats the same no matter how long the door is. Or is my geometry out of date?

Just as with the door non-issue the problem with the articles list of 'niggles' is that a number of them appear to be nonsense and/or picky in the extreme.

I think the issue begins where the aperture you've created ends up possibly being further down the length of the car, relative to where a typical seating position would be. So in effect you have to exit the car not just with a sideways movement, but backwards as well.

Probably solved by sliding the seat back, and for me never nothing more than a minor niggle in my experience of long doors (as it happens, a previous generation Megane)!

Edited by Arun_D on Wednesday 13th February 11:42

[Dblue]

405dogvan said:

Shipper said:

Your left ankle get's tired if your foot is on the clutch too long? What the?! Have you tried putting the gearbox in neutral and taking your foot off of the clutch while waiting in long cues? Seriously this comment screams non car buff. What's next? The steering wheel makes your arms ache when you need to drive too far? Man up Princess!

Renault Fanboi HO!

Most queues involve creeping forward - stopping - creeping forward - stopping - constantly. VERY few are about sitting still for any period of time.

I once had the opposite curse to this, a Rover 600 hirecar with a clutch which just got sloppier and sloppier with every engagement, traffic queues were a massive pain-in-the-ass as you tried, desperately, to get the fking thing to move forward smoothly (after about 20 mins it was impossible and it had a whopping 300miles on it at this point).

It's great speccing a car with 'race' features but reality comes calling sometimes. I've lost count of the people I know who've simply chosen 'the wrong car' for their daily driver tho - and this is clearly that.

So this morning in my Megane I'm in a 2 mile motorway queue which as you say is moving just fast enough to mean not being able to slip it into neural and in light of this thread I gave rather more thought to the weight of the clutch and it's perfectly light. This is simply NOT a heavy or awkward feature of this car.

I don't disagree about your general point that people buy cars that are not suitable as daily drivers because of "sporting" pretensions , just that the only aspect of this very modern Renault that is a compromise that is unsuitable for a daily commute is the ride which is pretty firm.

The comments about the access in car parks apply to any 2 door car and in particular a 2 door car that has usable rear seats that require a longer aperture to allow access. If that's an issue go and buy a Focus or a 5 door Golf.The Renault is better in that respect than my previous Scirocco which was a complete pain to get out of in a car park.

[MarkRSi]

ant leigh said:

Just as with the door non-issue the problem with the articles list of 'niggles' is that a number of them appear to be nonsense and/or picky in the extreme.

To defend Scrof - I think it's good he's as picky as possible, like as he mentioned the point of these long term tests is to give an indication any potential issues when living with the car.

If that's all he can come up with what's wrong with the car, I think it reflects very well of it

(And if it is really spoiling his ownership, would sir prefer something German with 4/5 doors and a slushbox? )

[MarkRSi]

jonm01 said:

ant leigh said:

There are a few other issues that could be added

The engine picks up pace at a fantastic rate with very little fall off in power as it nears the red line. This makes it far to easy to hit the rev limiter beep if you are accelerating hard which is another major fault IMO

Good point, another reason a DCT would be great on this car. I cant change gear quick enough.

During my test drive I found it quite difficult to use 2nd gear while driving down a road which wasn't particularly straight (but not very twisty either). As soon as it was in gear it would shoot from 40-60 then I'd have to scramble for 3rd again.

Complete opposite to the GT86 which seem to spend an age in 2nd/3rd accelerating (but still picking up speed respectfully for a 2.0l N/A)

On the other hand, 3rd appears to be geared for 80mph before the beep/limiter? This ought to make it a more useful overtaking gear than 3rd in the GT86 (and my MR2) which goes all the way to 90+mph.

[blearyeyedboy]

Roma101 said:

In respect of the driving position, you sound similar to me - long legs, comparatively short arms and just over 6 foot. I admit the driving postion for people of our dimensions is less than ideal, but the slight compromise you have to make was never uncomfortable for me. The steering wheel is adjustable for rake and reach. I think if you were going racing with it and needed everything spot on, it might be an issue, but for daily use on the road, I didn't find the driving position compromise an issue at all. There are far far more important things to worry about in life than that!

Thanks, that's useful.

[blearyeyedboy]

Dblue said:

The comments about the access in car parks apply to any 2 door car and in particular a 2 door car that has usable rear seats that require a longer aperture to allow access. If that's an issue go and buy a Focus or a 5 door Golf.The Renault is better in that respect than my previous Scirocco which was a complete pain to get out of in a car park.

Thanks, that's also useful. As you say, comparing 5 door cars to 2/3 door ones is a little unfair on the Megane. Your comparison with a Scirocco is far more helpful.

[matthewslt]

MarkRSi said:

During my test drive I found it quite difficult to use 2nd gear while driving down a road which wasn't particularly straight (but not very twisty either). As soon as it was in gear it would shoot from 40-60 then I'd have to scramble for 3rd again.

Complete opposite to the GT86 which seem to spend an age in 2nd/3rd accelerating (but still picking up speed respectfully for a 2.0l N/A)

On the other hand, 3rd appears to be geared for 80mph before the beep/limiter? This ought to make it a more useful overtaking gear than 3rd in the GT86 (and my MR2) which goes all the way to 90+mph.

The gears in the megane are quite close ratio to provide maximum acceleration. the megane has very high levels of grip and acceration which would make it next to impossible to draw a conclusion about the gearing on a test drive. 2nd gear is only really of use in the tighter corners. 3rd is very flexible. You couldn't really hope to use all the performance in all the gears on the road as it would most likely illegal. Tbh I thought the poster who was complaining about how the power keeps building to the limiter was being sarcastic. Any decent performance car should pull hard all the way to the limiter. If you want a car which revs and revs then buy a car like a gt86 or a Clio 200

Edited by matthewslt on Wednesday 13th February 14:16

[ant leigh]

matthewslt said:

Tbh I thought the poster who was complaining about how the power keeps building to the limiter was being sarcastic.

Edited by matthewslt on Wednesday 13th February 14:16

[ant leigh]

matthewslt said:

The gears in the megane are quite close ratio to provide maximum acceleration. the megane has very high levels of grip and acceration which would make it next to impossible to draw a conclusion about the gearing on a test drive. 2nd gear is only really of use in the tighter corners. 3rd is very flexible. You couldn't really hope to use all the performance in all the gears on the road as it would most likely illegal. Tbh I thought the poster who was complaining about how the power keeps building to the limiter was being sarcastic. Any decent performance car should pull hard all the way to the limiter. If you want a car which revs and revs then buy a car like a gt86 or a Clio 200

Edited by matthewslt on Wednesday 13th February 14:16

2nd is pretty short and IIRC tops out around or just before the 100kmh mark.
Thats the reason I believe some tests have reported significantly faster 0-100kmh sprints than the claimed 6.0 secs.

3rd is a very flexible gear. Pulls well once on boost at lower speeds (particularly in sport mode) and still keeps pulling hard past legal limits.

IMO 2nd could be a little bit longer and would be more useful if it was.

[otolith]

If a hot hatch is not a perfectly practical and usable car for commuting, what's the point? You may as well buy something more interesting if it's going to be a weekend garage queen.

I'm sure the Megane is in reality perfectly usable, however.

[sandys]

Dblue said:

The comments about the access in car parks apply to any 2 door car and in particular a 2 door car that has usable rear seats that require a longer aperture to allow access. If that's an issue go and buy a Focus or a 5 door Golf.The Renault is better in that respect than my previous Scirocco which was a complete pain to get out of in a car park.

Not really every 2 door, its the door cards on the Renault and the fact the doors aren't frameless which helps if you are a larger guy to get in and out of the aperture.

[Shipper]

I think what we are forgetting here is the underlying rationale of the 265. It is designed to be a brilliant track car first and then a hot hatch second. If you go here (http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html), then click on the renault 265, you can see how it performs on a large number of tracks. Hot hatches are either designed for comfort, hot street or hot track in mind. The Ford Focus is hot hatch plus comfort. The Opel Atra OPC (277hp, up on the 265 Megane) is hot hatch plus street speed and power. The 265 flips it around. It was designed specifically to set nurburgring lap records (and be a cop pursuit car) and then to be a hot hatch. Here's an example. The 265 pulls an 8.07.97 around the nurb, the OPC pulls a 8.20 flat, some 12.03 seconds slower. The Focus is slower again. A ferrari 360 (400hp), a Lamborghini Diablo SV (519hp), BMW M5 (507hp), Dodge Viper GTS (457hp), Audi's brilliant TTRS (340hp) and an Audi RS6 (579hp) are all slower around the nurburgring (but all faster than the Opel OPC, the Megane's closest competitor). It is more track car than hot hatch. We just get to use it as a daily driver and I can live with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Megane 265 get's sent by Renault as a bare chassis to the Renault F1 team where it get's bolted together. It then, with 265hp and front wheel drive slays cars worth 4 times as much with twice the hp and in some cases 4wd. It is a track day car like the KTM X-Bow (241hp) that can be driven to and from the track in the rain or snow and used as a daily driver with minimal loss of daily use amenity. I am constantly amazed by this car when I switch on the race computer and put my foot down. It thrills. It punches with the heavyweights and costs bantomweight money. I think the Opel OPC is brilliant and could buy one. I would if all I wanted was a really good hot hatch. I want to dice with giants and leave them wondering.

[Dblue]

Shipper said:

I think what we are forgetting here is the underlying rationale of the 265. It is designed to be a brilliant track car first and then a hot hatch second. If you go here (http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html), then click on the renault 265, you can see how it performs on a large number of tracks. Hot hatches are either designed for comfort, hot street or hot track in mind. The Ford Focus is hot hatch plus comfort. The Opel Atra OPC (277hp, up on the 265 Megane) is hot hatch plus street speed and power. The 265 flips it around. It was designed specifically to set nurburgring lap records (and be a cop pursuit car) and then to be a hot hatch. Here's an example. The 265 pulls an 8.07.97 around the nurb, the OPC pulls a 8.20 flat, some 12.03 seconds slower. The Focus is slower again. A ferrari 360 (400hp), a Lamborghini Diablo SV (519hp), BMW M5 (507hp), Dodge Viper GTS (457hp), Audi's brilliant TTRS (340hp) and an Audi RS6 (579hp) are all slower around the nurburgring (but all faster than the Opel OPC, the Megane's closest competitor). It is more track car than hot hatch. We just get to use it as a daily driver and I can live with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Megane 265 get's sent by Renault as a bare chassis to the Renault F1 team where it get's bolted together. It then, with 265hp and front wheel drive slays cars worth 4 times as much with twice the hp and in some cases 4wd. It is a track day car like the KTM X-Bow (241hp) that can be driven to and from the track in the rain or snow and used as a daily driver with minimal loss of daily use amenity. I am constantly amazed by this car when I switch on the race computer and put my foot down. It thrills. It punches with the heavyweights and costs bantomweight money. I think the Opel OPC is brilliant and could buy one. I would if all I wanted was a really good hot hatch. I want to dice with giants and leave them wondering.

Its not though. It may be very quick on a track but it's nothing like an R26R. It's perhaps marginally less civilised than the Opel and Astra but not by much. Certainly its nothing like X -Bow or even a GT3 or BMW CSL. Its not noisy, harsh in any way or impractical. It lacks the cohesiveness in its controls and systems that the best German cars have but it's nit picking.

It has a truly brilliant chassis that is all the more amazing because it's hardly a money no object set up. Renaultsport don't have the budget to throw at it like Porsche or BMW M do so it makes do with a limited number of uprated components. The Megane, unlike the Clio RS, is built in Renaults regular plants I think. It doesn't get assembled in Dieppe (Think that's what you were getting at rather than the F1 team - very different animals)

[ant leigh]

Dblue said:

Its not though. It may be very quick on a track but it's nothing like an R26R. It's perhaps marginally less civilised than the Opel and Astra but not by much. Certainly its nothing like X -Bow or even a GT3 or BMW CSL. Its not noisy, harsh in any way or impractical. It lacks the cohesiveness in its controls and systems that the best German cars have but it's nit picking.

Definately this.
I have driven 11,000 miles now on Motorway, A roads, B roads and C roads. Clear roads, light traffic, heavy traffic and M60/M25.
Up to 4 hours in one stint.
Not once has it felt unpleasant or uncomfortable or have I wished I was in something else.
No rattles, no faults and no weekly chiropractor visits.
Not previously a massive Renault fan either, this is the first one I have owned, and my good opinion of the company now is entirely based on my experience with this car.

Sure there are one or two areas that there could be improvements but my argument with the review is that the 'niggles' identified I don't see as issues at all. I have now spent two days trying to understand how the clutch could be described as heavy and how car parks are a problem for the doors.
If he had pointed out, for example, that the rear threequarter view is poor which makes parking on the wrong side of the road tricky to get away I would have agreed. If the care needed when parking due the ease with which the wheels can be kerbed had been identified I would also have agreed. The radio/cd, enough said, its poor.

Although none of which matters at all, once you get an open road and a few corners

[wheelsmith]

Shipper said:

Fair Call, still, it is no racing clutch and I drive mine in peak hour traffic daily and have noticed no issue re ankle, calf or thigh. I guess you need to be the type of car enthusiast that loves driving fast and gets a thrill out of how a car communicates to you. There are many different types of car enthusiasts. For some it is about the ride. For others it is about the ability for it to perform as a daily driver. Yet for some it’s about punching above your weight in a pocket rocket. The 265 is faster than a Mercedes C63 AMG around the nurburgring. It leaves cars three and four times its price, performance cars, behind. It is a second faster than an Audi RS4, 2 seconds faster than a Porsche Boxter S, 4 seconds faster than the C63 AMG, 10 seconds faster than a Lexus IS-F, 18 seconds faster than a BMW 335i, 21 seconds faster (1 second faster per km) than an Audi TTS Coupe and if we wait for the Volkswagen Scirocco to cross the line after the 265, we will be waiting 39 seconds! Almost 2 seconds slower per km of the nurburgrings 21kms. To beat it around this track you need a BMW M3 E92 at the minimum. That it can be used as a daily driver with minimal ankle damage, raced with supercars in the morning and can pick up the groceries in the afternoon is nothing short of setting a new benchmark for all hot hatches to follow.

How many times have you driven the berg?

Guess the marketing has worked

[Dblue]

wheelsmith said:

How many times have you driven the berg?

Guess the marketing has worked

The Berg eh. I assume you're being ironic or knowing.

But the fact is that just about every manufacturer that has serious ambitions tests there and publishes times. It's as good an indicator as is reasonably possible to get in terms of comparisons.

The fact is it's pretty amazing on a track for a car that asks very little in the way of compromises in daily driving and it's tremendous fun at the same time.