RE: Alfa Romeo 4C - first official pictures
Discussion
DJRC said:
Um sorry...but really? Seriously? Are some of you genuinely seriously contemplating the notion that the 4C will rival the Exige in the handling stakes??????
Good luck with that optimism!
I believe in the notion the product can not be judged until it has been tested in the real world.Good luck with that optimism!
We currently know very little about the car in truth so we can't really judge it can we. Well, we can't but apparently you're the oracle........
Edited by Alfahorn on Sunday 17th February 01:53
DJRC said:
Um sorry...but really? Seriously? Are some of you genuinely seriously contemplating the notion that the 4C will rival the Exige in the handling stakes??????
Good luck with that optimism!
Also, what do you call "handling" ? It's pretty subjective. Some like their cars to be neutral, some want them to drift. Some like a little roll to tell them how close they are to the limits of lateral g, some like their car to be "flat". Good luck with that optimism!
The 4C may not suit the way you like your car to handle but it might suit someone better than the Exige does?
davepoth said:
The 4C is very much Alfa's lead-in to the US market. Think of it as "Look at how awesome we are - now go and buy what is in essence a very expensive Dodge Dart."
That's fine, but historically it has been very hard to sell a sporty car with an automatic gearbox in the US. Hence the number of European cars which are sold with manual 'boxes only in the US. kambites said:
nickfrog said:
I am not sure if the 4C is transverse or longitudinal : does anyone know ?
I'm pretty sure it's transverse, same as the Elise - the car is too short to have a longitudinal inline four. Hence the comparisons really - the 4C does seem very much like an Elise clone. I shouldn't think it will handle like an Exige - that's a pretty track biased setup. More like an Elise, I would think, though how close it will get depends on how good a job they do of setting it up. There's certainly no reason for them not to try to make it handle well, having made such an effort to keep the weight down.
stephen300o said:
As much an Elise clone as the Elise was an X1/9 clone, there are only certain amount of configurations.
I thought the X19 was a monocoque rather than a central "tub" with metal subframes bolted onto it? Think it was Mcphereson struts rather than unequal length double wishbones, too. ETA: Although actually perhaps the Europa would be a better comparison in terms of both technical stats and market positioning.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 17th February 14:47
kambites said:
stephen300o said:
As much an Elise clone as the Elise was an X1/9 clone, there are only certain amount of configurations.
I thought the X19 was a monocoque rather than a central "tub" with metal subframes bolted onto it? Think it was Mcphereson struts rather than unequal length double wishbones, too. ETA: Although actually perhaps the Europa would be a better comparison in terms of both technical stats and market positioning.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 17th February 14:47
Although on paper the Europa is similar, probably going to be a different buyer for the Alfa, as the Alfa will appeal to the fashionista.
kambites said:
davepoth said:
The 4C is very much Alfa's lead-in to the US market. Think of it as "Look at how awesome we are - now go and buy what is in essence a very expensive Dodge Dart."
That's fine, but historically it has been very hard to sell a sporty car with an automatic gearbox in the US. Hence the number of European cars which are sold with manual 'boxes only in the US. stephen300o said:
kambites said:
davepoth said:
They don't need to sell many of them - they just need to make it good.
Probably a fair comment. But with the nation's love of three-pedal manuals in sports cars, will the US media like it enough for that to work? This may do fine in the US, but the stats certainly don't make it look like a car aimed at the US market to my eye. With the "F1-like" automated gearbox and (relatively) efficient turbocharged four-pot, it looks aimed squarely at Western Europe, to me.
jonby said:
An awful lot of the posts would be more meaningful if ALfa had plans to sell a lot of these. IIRC, the sales ambitions are pretty modest, so all the comparisons to other cars and in particular the Cayman are much less important
Yes lots of people buy caymans as a poor man's 911, or because of low monthly payments, or cheshire housewives who are comparing it to much less driver orientated cars (relatively speaking) such as SLKs. I imagine only a small minority of buyers choose the cayman because it's such a great handling car, arguably with a purer driving experience than a base 911
But look at how many caymans are sold p.a. and then consider talk of alfa only looking to sell 1k 4Cs p.a. - they will sell all of them very easily
You've probably ruffled feathers but I think there is merit in that.Yes lots of people buy caymans as a poor man's 911, or because of low monthly payments, or cheshire housewives who are comparing it to much less driver orientated cars (relatively speaking) such as SLKs. I imagine only a small minority of buyers choose the cayman because it's such a great handling car, arguably with a purer driving experience than a base 911
But look at how many caymans are sold p.a. and then consider talk of alfa only looking to sell 1k 4Cs p.a. - they will sell all of them very easily
If my wife wanted a two seater convertible I wouldn't hesitate to put a Boxster at the top. Quality build, practical, reliable, safe, easy to sell etc. I wouldn't look at a Lotus or a 4c for the opposite reasons in reality. The latter cars would be at the top of the list for myself if I were in my 20s or 30s, the Boxster has never featured on any ownership list for myself.
As such, a car like the 4c will work in the same segment but attract a more defined subsect within it. There is no doubting that the Boxster would be a very good fit for anyone in the segment, whereas the 4c isn't going to be, it'll be more defined.
This is why sales numbers apart from the economic aspects won't convey too much genuinely pertinant information.
k-ink said:
I think Porsche have more proven engine issues than any Alfa Romeo. Yet it is always people moaning about Alfa reliability. In my ownership experience that is pure nonsense. I've owned loads of Alfas, new and old. None had any issues.
That's from a sample size of one though. How they fare in these reliability surveys where a lot more owners opinions are taken in to account? I wonder...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff