RE: Jaguar F-Type versus Porsche 911
Discussion
nickfrog said:
benzpassion said:
I picked up my own P45 from JLR so now I am disgruntled and bitter. I even continually make Freudian projections without realising. I need help
I knew it. And I hope you do find help.Just watched a Fifth Gear episode on Discovery. Instantly thought about this thread as they put a Porsche 911 Cab up against an Audi R8 convertible. When they displayed the prices and the performance figures I instantly thought about the V8 F Type being on par with them both.
Main thing, never a mention of back seats missing from the R8
Main thing, never a mention of back seats missing from the R8
benzpassion said:
Just a quick apology. I forecast a downgrade of UK. I humbly admit I was wrong.
...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
This month's Evo... Aventador sales in 1st year higher than Merci's peak sales in it's best year. Uk looking like 2nd biggest market iirc. so not strictly true. Of course the Aventador is in a different keague and maybe there is more money at the top... but might be ibteresting to consider...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
Glade said:
benzpassion said:
Just a quick apology. I forecast a downgrade of UK. I humbly admit I was wrong.
...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
This month's Evo... Aventador sales in 1st year higher than Merci's peak sales in it's best year. Uk looking like 2nd biggest market iirc. so not strictly true. Of course the Aventador is in a different keague and maybe there is more money at the top... but might be ibteresting to consider...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
tony wright said:
Just watched a Fifth Gear episode on Discovery. Instantly thought about this thread as they put a Porsche 911 Cab up against an Audi R8 convertible. When they displayed the prices and the performance figures I instantly thought about the V8 F Type being on par with them both.
Main thing, never a mention of back seats missing from the R8
Correct the V8 is an C2S/R8V8 competitor on price and performance the V6 isn't. Main thing, never a mention of back seats missing from the R8
havoc said:
Glade said:
benzpassion said:
Just a quick apology. I forecast a downgrade of UK. I humbly admit I was wrong.
...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
This month's Evo... Aventador sales in 1st year higher than Merci's peak sales in it's best year. Uk looking like 2nd biggest market iirc. so not strictly true. Of course the Aventador is in a different keague and maybe there is more money at the top... but might be ibteresting to consider...not about the UK being bust, but about which one of the credit rating agencies downgrading the UK from AAA it would be!:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/farewell-...
Add this to near record fuel prices in UK/US, and UK petrol sales being at all time low in January, and I'm more convinced than ever that launching extremely heavy and thirsty vehicles that only Croesus could afford is a sure-fire winning plan!
Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 24th February 15:28
This does seema bit silly: comparison between this and that. Maybe Jaguar have found a new niche, likme Audi keep doing with their A5 sportback-which isnt a A4 hatchback etc etc. And you cannot argue that cars have got bigger over time, so saying the F-type is "too big" by comparing it to a car from the 1960s is very unfair. Have a look at these photos from another Phead thread to see what I mean:
"huge US barge from the 60's" Mustang and Modern supermini Ford Ka
BMW 3 series now and then
Still at least the "you know what" hasnt got any bigger over the same period of time as the E-type/F-type...
"huge US barge from the 60's" Mustang and Modern supermini Ford Ka
BMW 3 series now and then
Still at least the "you know what" hasnt got any bigger over the same period of time as the E-type/F-type...
Slowly but surely more and more people are beginning to see through the 'Wall of PR' by Tata/JLR and its media lackeys.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
benzpassion said:
Slowly but surely more and more people are beginning to see through the 'Wall of PR' by Tata/JLR and its media lackeys.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
At least you're well balanced, with a big chip on each shoulder.Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
benzpassion said:
Slowly but surely more and more people are beginning to see through the 'Wall of PR' by Tata/JLR and its media lackeys.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
What sort of simpleton are you? The car gets a brilliant review in the video, and you choose to quote the ramblings of an anonymous idiot in front of a keyboard who is making comments which bear no relation whatsoever to anything raised in the video. I strongly suspect that "veritasautomotive" is actually you.Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
benzpassion said:
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The UK car industry simply hasn't had the cash to invest in the past, simple as that - at the moment, the Germans are able to share huge amounts between models and ranges meaning a lot of their development is already done (e.g. Touareg, Q7, Cayenne, Falcon, Urus all on the MQB platform). Pretending that the German cars are somehow super-engineered is a ludicrous fallacy - your pinpointing a supposed lack of UK engineering talent only highlights the very personal nature of your agenda.benzpassion said:
Slowly but surely more and more people are beginning to see through the 'Wall of PR' by Tata/JLR and its media lackeys.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
Er...how are we quantifying the Rangie as not being succesful in the long run? I personally loathe the fEach time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
king things, but they have single handedly driven the rise of the SUV market.DonkeyApple said:
williamp said:
Did you know that JLR spent approx £1bn developing the new range rover, inclduing £300m on an improved production facility. Decent figures, surely??
LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIESEVIL CORRUPTION EVIL CORRUPTION LIES LIES CORRUPTION LIES
benzpassion said:
Slowly but surely more and more people are beginning to see through the 'Wall of PR' by Tata/JLR and its media lackeys.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
Each time a media lackey tries to blatantly plug a JLR product, he is now invariably met with cynicism and increasingly open accusations of bias and corruption in the vehicle maker/'independent' journalist relationship.
An excellent example of this, again from ironically JLR's once rock-solidly on-side readership at JLR's house mag, a.k.a. Autocar:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-range-rov...
a man/lady after my own heart:
'One can only assume that at £94,000 the majority of Range Rover's budget is spent not on development or quality control but on sweetening sycophantic reviewers to make false comparisons with Bentleys and better engineered SUVs. Free holiday to Morocco anyone or perhaps a year's supply of Tetley tea bags (courtesy of TATA)?'
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The British car industry and UK in general has generally opted for lying, in order to get them to the next pay packet, bonus, and gold-plated pension, leaving some other bugger/generation to inherit a wasteland.
JLR's antecedents have form in this. Sir John Egan's Jag pulled the same stunt in the 80s, hoodwinking Yanks that Jag was a quality, desirable product, and even fooled Ford enough to buy the whole hollowed-out shell of a company.
British Aerospace's Rover Group pulled the same stunt in the late 80s, early 90s, with the original Range Rover, by flogging it without regard for quality or future product succession to bonused-up bankers after the Big Bang, massively increasing profits at the Land Rover division temporarily.
However, JLR may not be so lucky as to go the same way as Egan's Jaguar and BAe's Rover Group. Who will be mug enough to be the next Ford and BMW respectively, buying up wasted, shell outfits, when Tata tries to offload its 'prized asset', as it will.
More unmitigated balderdash. Come back when you have real evidence, till then it's obvious, troll is obvious.Salgar said:
DonkeyApple said:
williamp said:
Did you know that JLR spent approx £1bn developing the new range rover, inclduing £300m on an improved production facility. Decent figures, surely??
LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIESEVIL CORRUPTION EVIL CORRUPTION LIES LIES CORRUPTION LIES
williamp said:
Did you know that JLR spent approx £1bn developing the new range rover, inclduing £300m on an improved production facility. Decent figures, surely??
not wishishing to take sides with the new nut jobs corner but surley that depends on what others spend developing a new model.If BMW spend 3 billion on the latest x5 or Jeep spend 2 billion on the new grand cheroke it would make that look a bit poor for example.
NomduJour said:
benzpassion said:
Moral of the story is, lying only gets you so far. To be successful in the long run you need real investment, real engineering - not read-across V8 engine blocks on 'new' V6 engines - ,real hard work, and above all, good, talented people.
The UK car industry simply hasn't had the cash to invest in the past, simple as that - at the moment, the Germans are able to share huge amounts between models and ranges meaning a lot of their development is already done (e.g. Touareg, Q7, Cayenne, Falcon, Urus all on the MQB platform). Pretending that the German cars are somehow super-engineered is a ludicrous fallacy - your pinpointing a supposed lack of UK engineering talent only highlights the very personal nature of your agenda.Investment £/€/$ isn't the be-all and end-all, if you're smart about it. However, I see JLR hiring loads of contractors and loads of grads right now - which (confirmed from the inside) is spreading the engineering knowledge base ridiculously thin trying to train the new people up. Add-in the Ford hand-me-down processes, procedures and big-corporate overkill*, and THAT is probably half the problem...
* Which was the issue when I was there 10 years ago - they'd geared up for both brands to be 200k+ p.a. volume companies using the Ford model (which I questioned the suitability of back then, but was a lowly worker-bee), and Jaguar was languishing at sub-100k and never grew anywhere. Cue £600m loss...
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