RE: Jaguar F-Type versus Porsche 911
Discussion
StottyZr said:
Porsche Cayman S £48,783
0-60 - 5
0-100 - 10.8
Top Speed 175
Weight 1,395
Jaguar F Type 3.0V6 £58,500
0-60 - 5.1
Top Speed - 161
Weight 1,597
- don't let JLR's lies mislead you. JLR tries to up the performance of their most unreliable(see below), massively overweight products by quoting 0-60 mph, instead of the industry norm 0-100 km/h(0-62 mph), and unladen weight, without driver and luggage, as per the accepted EU norm.0-60 - 5
0-100 - 10.8
Top Speed 175
Weight 1,395
Jaguar F Type 3.0V6 £58,500
0-60 - 5.1
Top Speed - 161
Weight 1,597
So the above should read:
Cayman S 0-62 mph 5.0s, weight(DIN) 1,320 kg, weight(EU) 1,395 kg
F-type V6 0-62 mph 5.3s, claimed weight 1,600 kg
Ten grand more, for less performance, and nearly 300 kg, over 600 lbs, of lard to cart around in this self-proclaimed Jag 'sports car'!
'Lexus, Porsche, Toyota and Lincoln had the best records in the 2013 J.D Power and Associates vehicle dependability study.
In good news for car owners, the study found that overall, cars are becoming more reliable. Other top scorers included Buick, Mercedes-Benz, Honda and Acura.
Land Rover scored the worst, with owners of its vehicles reporting problems at more than three times the rate of Lexus. The Dodge brand was the second worst and Mitsubishi third worst. Other poor scorers included Jeep, Volkswagen and Jaguar.'
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-lex...
StottyZr said:
I also noticed no mention of weight, which is where Jaguars disadvantage lies.
Quite. If you believe that this cut and shut 2006 XK Jag, aka 'F-type', will really weigh only 1,600 kgs then you'd better have a look at the new JLR Range Rover, which JLR claimed had lost up to 420 kgs, thanks to aluminium construction, like the F-type's, but weighs in actuality about the same or more than the old Range Rover(L322), at around 2,700 kgs.:'das Leergewicht von 2,7 Tonnen[measured weight]'
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/testbericht/zeh...
In summary, typical Tata-owned JLR - all hype, little or no substance, aided by willing lickspittle lackeys in the Brit/US media, not the least here, to cover up JLR products' manifold shortcomings, and gull sap punters, a la the whole Evoque huge hype thing, into buying hugely overpriced, vastly overrated, massively unreliable tat.
Edited by benzpassion on Monday 18th February 12:41
ZesPak said:
Bedazzled said:
What an ugly duckling, it looks like a Nissan and the exhaust note shouts new money like a R8; and they haven't even dared show the rear view in the article! 
How many cars though have been touted as a 911 beater and simply failed.
I remember JC waxing lyrical about the AM V8 and how it was going to steal the 911s crown.
How many of them do you see on the roads?
C'mon guys (PH journo team), how about we ditch all the pointless-guesswork F-Type articles, unless Jaguar are paying you, in which case at least have the decency to call them "advertorials" or similar.
I agree with the comments made above
- about power-to-weight mattering not just headline power. Just ask Caterham, Lotus and Noble...
- about the F-Type being obese. I've seen a few in the flesh, inc. on the road, and the first impression is how WIDE the damn thing is - a B-road car this is not* - it seems firmly aimed at the US market for some reason.
- about the lack of rear seats hampering it vs the 911. Excluding those buyers who HAVE to buy a 911 not a Cayman, if you only need 2 seats the Cayman-S / -R make a very good case for themselves vs the 911 C2/C2S, so the F-Type is already ceding ground.
So until it gets driven the jury HAS to be out on whether it's a cut-price 911 competitor, an expensive Boxster-S competitor, or a cut-price XK alternative (forget which journo suggested the F-Type could be a huge own-goal, but they're right).
* Which, perversely, is something the Boxster and 911 excel at, being rather narrower and more wieldy.
I agree with the comments made above
- about power-to-weight mattering not just headline power. Just ask Caterham, Lotus and Noble...
- about the F-Type being obese. I've seen a few in the flesh, inc. on the road, and the first impression is how WIDE the damn thing is - a B-road car this is not* - it seems firmly aimed at the US market for some reason.
- about the lack of rear seats hampering it vs the 911. Excluding those buyers who HAVE to buy a 911 not a Cayman, if you only need 2 seats the Cayman-S / -R make a very good case for themselves vs the 911 C2/C2S, so the F-Type is already ceding ground.
So until it gets driven the jury HAS to be out on whether it's a cut-price 911 competitor, an expensive Boxster-S competitor, or a cut-price XK alternative (forget which journo suggested the F-Type could be a huge own-goal, but they're right).
* Which, perversely, is something the Boxster and 911 excel at, being rather narrower and more wieldy.
DonkeyApple said:
pilchardthecat said:
It can't compete against a 911, it falls at the first hurdle - i can't say to the wife "but is has seats in the back so we can go out as a family" (whether they ever get used is not relevant)
Wrong perspective. It leaps the first hurdle as the wife will have to drive the kids in the family car while you meet them at the desitination having taken the back roads in peace and quiet. 
nickfrog said:
Quite a bizarre article
Indeed. It's what comes of trying to peddle snake oil.nickfrog said:
- Practicality. The Jaguar is bigger / heavier but only has 2 seats. I wonder if its boot is much bigger than the 2 Boxster boots put together.
NO! The Boxster takes 280 litres combined(150 front/130 rear).The Jag, due to it being essentially an XK with its boot lopped off, is claimed to offer around 180 litres boot space, but according to anyone who's seen it in the flesh, they're astonished at how small it is, for a production car; i.e. JLR are probably lying again about the actual boot size and this is hinted at by them offering customised luggage already.
From pictures taken at the launch at the Frankfurt motor show I would say the F-type's boot is smaller than the Aston Martin Vantage Roadster's and a much less practically usable shape, as it is essentially over the back axle, rather than behind it, as is the case in the Aston Martin's.
havoc said:
C'mon guys (PH journo team), how about we ditch all the pointless-guesswork F-Type articles, unless Jaguar are paying you, in which case at least have the decency to call them "advertorials" or similar.
Just the opinion of one of our contributors, not necessarily the whole team and certainly not advertorial paid for by Jag - we'd tell you if it was!My view (and I don't dictate the editorial line for PH, so it is only that) is that the F-Type isn't a 911 rival at all, no matter how hard or how often Jaguar tell us that it is.
whoami said:
Why would you care about rear seats on a 911?
They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
people do care about them - you can put kids in the back (small kids anyway), which A: is practical, and B: helps with convincing the other half on usually the second biggest ever lifetime purchase. those seats make a huge difference - for me the F type won't even come on the radar because of it. others will be in the same boat. They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
I think we should all look at this as a cheap V8 Vantage, it has the looks and the noise but is much much cheaper. I originally thought it would be a Boxster alternative in terms of price but I think the strategy is thus:
The new XK will be moved more upmarket as a cheaper competitor to DB9/SL priced rival.
The new 3 series rival being talked about will spawn a cheaper coupe/convertible which will be much more keenly priced.
They are simply pricing the range to give space between the models.
I wish them the best of luck as there's a lot of jobs riding on it!
Regards,
My CC.
The new XK will be moved more upmarket as a cheaper competitor to DB9/SL priced rival.
The new 3 series rival being talked about will spawn a cheaper coupe/convertible which will be much more keenly priced.
They are simply pricing the range to give space between the models.
I wish them the best of luck as there's a lot of jobs riding on it!
Regards,
My CC.
DJRC said:
DonkeyApple said:
pilchardthecat said:
It can't compete against a 911, it falls at the first hurdle - i can't say to the wife "but is has seats in the back so we can go out as a family" (whether they ever get used is not relevant)
Wrong perspective. It leaps the first hurdle as the wife will have to drive the kids in the family car while you meet them at the desitination having taken the back roads in peace and quiet. of the 3 911 owners I know, 2 of them do regularly squeeze their kids in the back. At the very least they have crossed off a reasonable chunk of their supposed target audience (i.e. buy this when your 911 is due for renewal).
kellydk said:
The F-Type is a good looking car in the flesh. Surprised that there are no reviews yet as I've seen two parked on peoples drives this weekend.
It is indeed a fine looking beast in the flesh. I saw two last week, both on the A46 near Warwick (which would make sense, as Jaguar headquarters are just up the road (?)). They must be pre-production models, so would probably not be suitable for any magazine type road-test I would have thought.
cidered77 said:
whoami said:
Why would you care about rear seats on a 911?
They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
people do care about them - you can put kids in the back (small kids anyway), which A: is practical, and B: helps with convincing the other half on usually the second biggest ever lifetime purchase. those seats make a huge difference - for me the F type won't even come on the radar because of it. others will be in the same boat. They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
DJRC said:
DonkeyApple said:
pilchardthecat said:
It can't compete against a 911, it falls at the first hurdle - i can't say to the wife "but is has seats in the back so we can go out as a family" (whether they ever get used is not relevant)
Wrong perspective. It leaps the first hurdle as the wife will have to drive the kids in the family car while you meet them at the desitination having taken the back roads in peace and quiet. 
It's why the BAC Mono is so appealing.
PaulMoor said:
cidered77 said:
whoami said:
Why would you care about rear seats on a 911?
They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
people do care about them - you can put kids in the back (small kids anyway), which A: is practical, and B: helps with convincing the other half on usually the second biggest ever lifetime purchase. those seats make a huge difference - for me the F type won't even come on the radar because of it. others will be in the same boat. They are pretty much unusable.
What about a GT3?
I don't get why people would not like those rear seats in 911. if you don't like them, just call them storage space with leather pads. They don't take extra space or much of weight. But, they do make 911 a all round sports/super car. Please, own one first, then you will see the point...
loveice said:
I don't get why people would not like those rear seats in 911. if you don't like them, just call them storage space with leather pads. They don't take extra space or much of weight. But, they do make 911 a all round sports/super car. Please, own one first, then you will see the point...
I don't own a 911, but if everybody who owned a 2 seater where the two seats are glued to the back of the car, with no space in between, should be able to appreciate this. Laptop/suitcase/coat have to be directed to the boot.
dubbs said:
"and the fact it's 21mm shorter than a 911 means it also feels unique."
Really? You sat in one for ride and can now categorically state the above... 2cm shorter and as a passenger you can tell it feels unique as a result?!
Nonsense.
Don't worry, it wasn't sensing the 21mm difference itself that I was referring to - I was instead putting the car's overall size into context, to illustrate how short and stubby the rear end 'feels' from within. Really? You sat in one for ride and can now categorically state the above... 2cm shorter and as a passenger you can tell it feels unique as a result?!
Nonsense.
Roof down, it's quite an effect, having the exhausts and back end in such close proximity: with the long nose, it does give a unique dynamic sense, just as the 911's rear-set engine does.
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