RE: Jaguar F-Type versus Porsche 911
Discussion
Nice looking car, sure it will sound nice too. Not seen one in the flesh, so can't comment.
Given that its a 2 seater I'd compare it to the Boxster personally which is a tough act to follow for any manufacturer BMW, Audi and others have tried and failed to knock the Boxster of it's perch, so good luck Jag.
Maybe it'll poach some 911 buyers given the price point, (depending on engine & spec).
To me it looks a bit z8 ish with a bit of AC cobra thrown in at the front
Will it sell, probably and initially yes (like the Evoque). Once the hype has settled and the electrics start going wrong (sorry I am cynical of their reliability)I can't see it "saving" JLR...
Like an XK for the slighly younger generation perhaps, but it's too expensive if you ask me to draw in the younger crowds.
911's might be relatively "common", but they are the buyer's choice for a reason, as is the boxster in the 2 seater segment.
To sell it will compete with Boxster / 911 whatever they price it at...
Given that its a 2 seater I'd compare it to the Boxster personally which is a tough act to follow for any manufacturer BMW, Audi and others have tried and failed to knock the Boxster of it's perch, so good luck Jag.
Maybe it'll poach some 911 buyers given the price point, (depending on engine & spec).
To me it looks a bit z8 ish with a bit of AC cobra thrown in at the front
Will it sell, probably and initially yes (like the Evoque). Once the hype has settled and the electrics start going wrong (sorry I am cynical of their reliability)I can't see it "saving" JLR...
Like an XK for the slighly younger generation perhaps, but it's too expensive if you ask me to draw in the younger crowds.
911's might be relatively "common", but they are the buyer's choice for a reason, as is the boxster in the 2 seater segment.
To sell it will compete with Boxster / 911 whatever they price it at...
Pesty said:
ZesPak said:
I don't own a 911, but if everybody who owned a 2 seater where the two seats are glued to the back of the car, with no space in between, should be able to appreciate this. Laptop/suitcase/coat have to be directed to the boot.
For slinging stuf in the back they are great. especialy if you are scare of opening teh froot in case the cable snaps
CY88 said:
That picture looks severely distorted / photoshopped. The F-type is indeed wider that an E-type (by 10 inches), but that makes the E look like a pedal car!
The pic is taken from auto motor und sport, 2/2013, p.103. And I doubt that they would have photoshopped it given that the article sounded quite like a JLR advert. The fact remains that the F is 27cm (that is almost 1 foot) wider than the E and 11cm taller.Good that you put a pic of a proper E, as to add some irony, the E that looks like a pedal car in the pic is actually a lardy S3...
rajkohli81 said:
Have you been living on a different planet to the rest of us?
Have you read/seen any reviews of the new Range Rover or more importantly driven it?
Whether it's lost 420kg or 40kg, it feels immensely improved to drive. I would go so far as to say it's a stunning machine.
Admittedly, bits might fall off, hopefully not as badly as they did on the last one, but every FFRR owner keeps coming back for more. There's obviously something in the products they like.
Just the Facts, as Rafa the Gaffer would say:Have you read/seen any reviews of the new Range Rover or more importantly driven it?
Whether it's lost 420kg or 40kg, it feels immensely improved to drive. I would go so far as to say it's a stunning machine.
Admittedly, bits might fall off, hopefully not as badly as they did on the last one, but every FFRR owner keeps coming back for more. There's obviously something in the products they like.
JLR lied. They said the new all-ally R/Rover had dropped up to 420 kilos. Two outfits to date have weighed the useless heap. Autocar put the TDV8 at over 2,600 kilos; Auto Motor Und Sport put the same variant at nearer to 2,700 kilos, compared to the 2,300 kilos claimed by Land Rover. They lied, again.
Euro NCAP not only found the TDV6 variant weighed nearly 200 kilos more than claimed by Land Rover but also the side impact protection and whiplash protection were borderline, prompting JLR to promise to redesign the front seat/front seat headrests. It's not so easy to redesign a car's side, to improve side impact protection, especially when the vehicle is supposedly brand new and state of the art. Typical crap, dangerous JLR engineering, once again.
Yes I've read the reviews - all glowing as per Tata/JLR's marketing budget, and the propensity of Brit auto hacks to lick backsides. As to reality, try Tom Ford(Top Gear mag)'s broken-down one on its first day. Has that tweet been scrubbed?
Let's cut out the ad hominem BS, and deal with facts. JD Power, the most widely referenced reliability/quality data source in the industry says Land Rover is rock bottom. This isn't news; Land Rover were always appalling. The news in the last week published 2013 JD Power Dependability report is Jaguar tumbling, to near bottom. Ford ploughed millions and milllions in trying to turn around the appalling factories of Browns Lane and then Castle Bromwich from 1989 to 2007. Tata, contrary to the propaganda of them ploughing in up to £2.5bn investment in R&D and facilities per year has overseen a radical decline in the Jaguar brand's real build quality.
As to the chimpanzee like sh!t-slinging reaction to someone daring to say that the JLR potemkin-like facade of all things rosy might not be true, let's calm down and read again the reports last week of Tata Motors', JLR's owners, Quarter 3 trading, which show - that fact thing again - that JLR's profits are in reverse, and more significantly they are in negative forward cashflow, as sales, true sales to customers, not channel stuffing to dealers/distributors, self registrations and so on, decline, and expenditure on sales incentives increase massively, plus increased warranty costs due to slipping real build quality, amongst other factors, like massive competition from X1/X3s, 3-series, Q3/Q5, new A-Class/coming GLA softroader, and many many others.
The absolutely shocking thing is the reaction here. Someone daring to say the emperor is unclothed. What a sad bunch you are and how low you have fallen when the mere hint of breaking from the Groupthink-like false orthodoxy provokes such rabid reaction. Think about it. Get back to me when you have some counter facts, not bile.
nickfrog said:
rajkohli81 said:
but every FFRR owner keeps coming back for more. There's obviously something in the products they like.
The image ?
benzpassion said:
When Hallmark's marketing/PR people at Gaydon get busy pumping out propaganda, like this transparent PR piece, lapped up by the sycophantic, jingoistic British auto hacks, one should always ask what are they trying to hide.
When the vapourware C-X75 supercar project was canned a few months back, JLR's press office put out a cock and bull story about JLR cars being made in the desert, with Saudi aluminium, to divert attention and limit the PR hit.
So what's this F-type PR piece trying to hide? Could it be this:
'Tata Motors Q3 profit falls as Jaguar Land Rover cash boom shifts into reverse'
http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...
or this:
'Land Rover scored the worst, with owners of its vehicles reporting problems at more than three times the rate of Lexus. The Dodge brand was the second worst and Mitsubishi third worst. Other poor scorers included Jeep, Volkswagen and Jaguar.'
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-lex...
- note Jaguar's result for 3 yr old cars means Jaguar has now gone backwards under Tata's ownership, in comparison to the steady progress in reliability and quality made under Ford.
The story of Tata's Jaguar Land Rover over the last 18 months has been the Evoque. JLR's bosses think, hope, pray they can pull the same sh!t - i.e. hype over reality - with the F-type - Lana del Rey substituting for posh spice.
Early pre-order books for the F-type must be looking poor, hence the panicky feeling articles like here, to drum up some mug punters. Couple this to the hype finally falling away from the 18 month old Evoque, with tales of barely 30 mpg fuel economy for the diesel, poor build quality, and the embarrassment of the 'lightweight', '400 kilos saved' 2.7 tonne new Range Rover, and many other setbacks, like the poor XF Euro NCAP rating, and JLR, including the apparently uber successful Land Rover side, suddenly looks very, very shaky.
This is as good as confirmed, without Adrian Hallmark having to confirm in print, by the near 24/7 wall to wall adverts now on all media platforms for 'the sold out' Evoque.
If JLR's marketing people can't swing the obese F-type and obese new Range Rover with enough mugs it could easily be game over for JLR this year.
I'm pretty sure you got banned for your constant dribbling of rubbish and trolling of every Jaguar story, which then also lead to a racist rant from yourself (autocar or autoexpress, can't remember which) Good to see your continuing your great work. GO AWAY.When the vapourware C-X75 supercar project was canned a few months back, JLR's press office put out a cock and bull story about JLR cars being made in the desert, with Saudi aluminium, to divert attention and limit the PR hit.
So what's this F-type PR piece trying to hide? Could it be this:
'Tata Motors Q3 profit falls as Jaguar Land Rover cash boom shifts into reverse'
http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...
or this:
'Land Rover scored the worst, with owners of its vehicles reporting problems at more than three times the rate of Lexus. The Dodge brand was the second worst and Mitsubishi third worst. Other poor scorers included Jeep, Volkswagen and Jaguar.'
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-lex...
- note Jaguar's result for 3 yr old cars means Jaguar has now gone backwards under Tata's ownership, in comparison to the steady progress in reliability and quality made under Ford.
The story of Tata's Jaguar Land Rover over the last 18 months has been the Evoque. JLR's bosses think, hope, pray they can pull the same sh!t - i.e. hype over reality - with the F-type - Lana del Rey substituting for posh spice.
Early pre-order books for the F-type must be looking poor, hence the panicky feeling articles like here, to drum up some mug punters. Couple this to the hype finally falling away from the 18 month old Evoque, with tales of barely 30 mpg fuel economy for the diesel, poor build quality, and the embarrassment of the 'lightweight', '400 kilos saved' 2.7 tonne new Range Rover, and many other setbacks, like the poor XF Euro NCAP rating, and JLR, including the apparently uber successful Land Rover side, suddenly looks very, very shaky.
This is as good as confirmed, without Adrian Hallmark having to confirm in print, by the near 24/7 wall to wall adverts now on all media platforms for 'the sold out' Evoque.
If JLR's marketing people can't swing the obese F-type and obese new Range Rover with enough mugs it could easily be game over for JLR this year.
Edited by benzpassion on Monday 18th February 13:42
I agree that the F-Type is too heavy but there are some good revisions coming with the coupe in the close future which should make a lot of doubters on here change there minds. That's as much as I'm saying.
benzpassion said:
rajkohli81 said:
Have you been living on a different planet to the rest of us?
Have you read/seen any reviews of the new Range Rover or more importantly driven it?
Whether it's lost 420kg or 40kg, it feels immensely improved to drive. I would go so far as to say it's a stunning machine.
Admittedly, bits might fall off, hopefully not as badly as they did on the last one, but every FFRR owner keeps coming back for more. There's obviously something in the products they like.
Just the Facts, as Rafa the Gaffer would say:Have you read/seen any reviews of the new Range Rover or more importantly driven it?
Whether it's lost 420kg or 40kg, it feels immensely improved to drive. I would go so far as to say it's a stunning machine.
Admittedly, bits might fall off, hopefully not as badly as they did on the last one, but every FFRR owner keeps coming back for more. There's obviously something in the products they like.
JLR lied. They said the new all-ally R/Rover had dropped up to 420 kilos. Two outfits to date have weighed the useless heap. Autocar put the TDV8 at over 2,600 kilos; Auto Motor Und Sport put the same variant at nearer to 2,700 kilos, compared to the 2,300 kilos claimed by Land Rover. They lied, again.
Euro NCAP not only found the TDV6 variant weighed nearly 200 kilos more than claimed by Land Rover but also the side impact protection and whiplash protection were borderline, prompting JLR to promise to redesign the front seat/front seat headrests. It's not so easy to redesign a car's side, to improve side impact protection, especially when the vehicle is supposedly brand new and state of the art. Typical crap, dangerous JLR engineering, once again.
Yes I've read the reviews - all glowing as per Tata/JLR's marketing budget, and the propensity of Brit auto hacks to lick backsides. As to reality, try Tom Ford(Top Gear mag)'s broken-down one on its first day. Has that tweet been scrubbed?
Let's cut out the ad hominem BS, and deal with facts. JD Power, the most widely referenced reliability/quality data source in the industry says Land Rover is rock bottom. This isn't news; Land Rover were always appalling. The news in the last week published 2013 JD Power Dependability report is Jaguar tumbling, to near bottom. Ford ploughed millions and milllions in trying to turn around the appalling factories of Browns Lane and then Castle Bromwich from 1989 to 2007. Tata, contrary to the propaganda of them ploughing in up to £2.5bn investment in R&D and facilities per year has overseen a radical decline in the Jaguar brand's real build quality.
As to the chimpanzee like sh!t-slinging reaction to someone daring to say that the JLR potemkin-like facade of all things rosy might not be true, let's calm down and read again the reports last week of Tata Motors', JLR's owners, Quarter 3 trading, which show - that fact thing again - that JLR's profits are in reverse, and more significantly they are in negative forward cashflow, as sales, true sales to customers, not channel stuffing to dealers/distributors, self registrations and so on, decline, and expenditure on sales incentives increase massively, plus increased warranty costs due to slipping real build quality, amongst other factors, like massive competition from X1/X3s, 3-series, Q3/Q5, new A-Class/coming GLA softroader, and many many others.
The absolutely shocking thing is the reaction here. Someone daring to say the emperor is unclothed. What a sad bunch you are and how low you have fallen when the mere hint of breaking from the Groupthink-like false orthodoxy provokes such rabid reaction. Think about it. Get back to me when you have some counter facts, not bile.
benzpassion said:
Just the Facts, as Rafa the Gaffer would say:
JLR lied. They said the new all-ally R/Rover had dropped up to 420 kilos. Two outfits to date have weighed the useless heap. Autocar put the TDV8 at over 2,600 kilos; Auto Motor Und Sport put the same variant at nearer to 2,700 kilos, compared to the 2,300 kilos claimed by Land Rover. They lied, again.
Euro NCAP not only found the TDV6 variant weighed nearly 200 kilos more than claimed by Land Rover but also the side impact protection and whiplash protection were borderline, prompting JLR to promise to redesign the front seat/front seat headrests. It's not so easy to redesign a car's side, to improve side impact protection, especially when the vehicle is supposedly brand new and state of the art. Typical crap, dangerous JLR engineering, once again.
Yes I've read the reviews - all glowing as per Tata/JLR's marketing budget, and the propensity of Brit auto hacks to lick backsides. As to reality, try Tom Ford(Top Gear mag)'s broken-down one on its first day. Has that tweet been scrubbed?
Let's cut out the ad hominem BS, and deal with facts. JD Power, the most widely referenced reliability/quality data source in the industry says Land Rover is rock bottom. This isn't news; Land Rover were always appalling. The news in the last week published 2013 JD Power Dependability report is Jaguar tumbling, to near bottom. Ford ploughed millions and milllions in trying to turn around the appalling factories of Browns Lane and then Castle Bromwich from 1989 to 2007. Tata, contrary to the propaganda of them ploughing in up to £2.5bn investment in R&D and facilities per year has overseen a radical decline in the Jaguar brand's real build quality.
As to the chimpanzee like sh!t-slinging reaction to someone daring to say that the JLR potemkin-like facade of all things rosy might not be true, let's calm down and read again the reports last week of Tata Motors', JLR's owners, Quarter 3 trading, which show - that fact thing again - that JLR's profits are in reverse, and more significantly they are in negative forward cashflow, as sales, true sales to customers, not channel stuffing to dealers/distributors, self registrations and so on, decline, and expenditure on sales incentives increase massively, plus increased warranty costs due to slipping real build quality, amongst other factors, like massive competition from X1/X3s, 3-series, Q3/Q5, new A-Class/coming GLA softroader, and many many others.
The absolutely shocking thing is the reaction here. Someone daring to say the emperor is unclothed. What a sad bunch you are and how low you have fallen when the mere hint of breaking from the Groupthink-like false orthodoxy provokes such rabid reaction. Think about it. Get back to me when you have some counter facts, not bile.
That 'useless' heap has not only been given rave reviews in the UK but also in Italy, America and Russia most likely a lot more as well but I assume all their writers have also been paid off as well. I believe this thread was titled F-Type VS 911, not Range Rover, TATA and TATA's lies. Have you got all of this pre-saved on your computer to copy and paste on every thread? JLR lied. They said the new all-ally R/Rover had dropped up to 420 kilos. Two outfits to date have weighed the useless heap. Autocar put the TDV8 at over 2,600 kilos; Auto Motor Und Sport put the same variant at nearer to 2,700 kilos, compared to the 2,300 kilos claimed by Land Rover. They lied, again.
Euro NCAP not only found the TDV6 variant weighed nearly 200 kilos more than claimed by Land Rover but also the side impact protection and whiplash protection were borderline, prompting JLR to promise to redesign the front seat/front seat headrests. It's not so easy to redesign a car's side, to improve side impact protection, especially when the vehicle is supposedly brand new and state of the art. Typical crap, dangerous JLR engineering, once again.
Yes I've read the reviews - all glowing as per Tata/JLR's marketing budget, and the propensity of Brit auto hacks to lick backsides. As to reality, try Tom Ford(Top Gear mag)'s broken-down one on its first day. Has that tweet been scrubbed?
Let's cut out the ad hominem BS, and deal with facts. JD Power, the most widely referenced reliability/quality data source in the industry says Land Rover is rock bottom. This isn't news; Land Rover were always appalling. The news in the last week published 2013 JD Power Dependability report is Jaguar tumbling, to near bottom. Ford ploughed millions and milllions in trying to turn around the appalling factories of Browns Lane and then Castle Bromwich from 1989 to 2007. Tata, contrary to the propaganda of them ploughing in up to £2.5bn investment in R&D and facilities per year has overseen a radical decline in the Jaguar brand's real build quality.
As to the chimpanzee like sh!t-slinging reaction to someone daring to say that the JLR potemkin-like facade of all things rosy might not be true, let's calm down and read again the reports last week of Tata Motors', JLR's owners, Quarter 3 trading, which show - that fact thing again - that JLR's profits are in reverse, and more significantly they are in negative forward cashflow, as sales, true sales to customers, not channel stuffing to dealers/distributors, self registrations and so on, decline, and expenditure on sales incentives increase massively, plus increased warranty costs due to slipping real build quality, amongst other factors, like massive competition from X1/X3s, 3-series, Q3/Q5, new A-Class/coming GLA softroader, and many many others.
The absolutely shocking thing is the reaction here. Someone daring to say the emperor is unclothed. What a sad bunch you are and how low you have fallen when the mere hint of breaking from the Groupthink-like false orthodoxy provokes such rabid reaction. Think about it. Get back to me when you have some counter facts, not bile.
I don't know why people fret about these comparisons - a car is either one that you want at a price you find acceptable or it's not.
Porsche has the £50k sportscar segment sewn up tight. Evora has been mentioned above yet Lotus have notably failed to make more than a tiny handful of sales. The V6 Jag will be a £60k car with entirely different personality.
The V8 Jag will be probably be 911 money by the time you get one on the road and again its personality will be quite different from the 911.
Just buy what you like and make sure you enjoy it!!
Porsche has the £50k sportscar segment sewn up tight. Evora has been mentioned above yet Lotus have notably failed to make more than a tiny handful of sales. The V6 Jag will be a £60k car with entirely different personality.
The V8 Jag will be probably be 911 money by the time you get one on the road and again its personality will be quite different from the 911.
Just buy what you like and make sure you enjoy it!!
dukebox9reg said:
I'm pretty sure you got banned for your constant dribbling of rubbish and trolling of every Jaguar story, which then also lead to a racist rant from yourself (autocar or autoexpress, can't remember which) Good to see your continuing your great work. GO AWAY.
Ooh look, the nice man is trying to get a heretic to the JLR religion banned, without of course coming out and saying so directly - what a wonderful weaselly skill.Soz pal, contrary to the view peddled here, there are many more than myself who see through the Tata/JLR BS facade. Take a look at the investment analysts putting Tata Motors on negative watch or outright downgrade for one, since last week. Are they off their rockers, living on another planet too?
The world's changed, people, even since the now comparatively halcyon days of 2011, when the 'Emperor's New Clothes' Evoque was launched, and saved JLR's bacon. After all the scandals of 'The Great and the Good' ordinary folk are less trusting of PR/overt propaganda generally. Plus, fuel prices are headed back over $4/gal in the US and towards £7/€9/gal in UK and Europe. Even the most doltish airhead is thinking twice over buying a gas guzzling £40k Evoque or old wine in new bottles $80k F-type, or most liable to breakdown, lucky to see 250 miles between refills $100k R/Rover, when the world economy's in the toilet. Just the facts.
Edited by benzpassion on Monday 18th February 15:43
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