RE: Citroen fits insurance black boxes
Discussion
Do you have to use the black box though?
If you get a car with a black box are you bound to take up insurance with a policy that involves a readout of your black box. Or could you just say 'thank you for the offer of the free insurance citroen, but I already have a policy that I would like to use,' and completely ignore the black box.
The majority of young drivers wont actually benefit from this that much anyway as most of them in my experience get put onto their parents policies as traditionally that has been cheaper. If young drivers don't have to take up the use of the black box, and they aren't financially responsible for their insurance, then I can't see this being a measure that is going to improve driving standards amongst all young people.
I can see an offer of free insurance as a positive though and I think that is a good idea.
If you get a car with a black box are you bound to take up insurance with a policy that involves a readout of your black box. Or could you just say 'thank you for the offer of the free insurance citroen, but I already have a policy that I would like to use,' and completely ignore the black box.
The majority of young drivers wont actually benefit from this that much anyway as most of them in my experience get put onto their parents policies as traditionally that has been cheaper. If young drivers don't have to take up the use of the black box, and they aren't financially responsible for their insurance, then I can't see this being a measure that is going to improve driving standards amongst all young people.
I can see an offer of free insurance as a positive though and I think that is a good idea.
Zajda said:
kambites said:
Given how inaccessible motoring is becoming for young drivers due to insurance costs, I think it's a good thing overall. I think for many young drivers it is probably now a choice between having one of these boxes and driving sensibly, or not driving at all.
I think that overall it's a ridiculous idea. And certainly you don't need more of frightened slow drivers, watching their speedos instead of the road. I'm certainly not implying that these are a good thing overall, just that for some individuals they are probably a necessity.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th February 10:57
kaiowas said:
What happens to your insurance premium if you take a car equipped with one of these on track? A day of driving like a loon is sure to set all the red lights flashing back at base.
They will probably have something here they charge you a hefty premium for a day's hooning.Or the poor guy at the call centre will have a nervous breakdown trying to understand what a 'track day' is.
realistically, though, what kinda guy would bring a car like this to a trackday. It's a moving roadblock.
They've already been shown to have problems: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
Also, I remember a You & Yours programme back in March last year where a number of proven safe motorists with very long NCBs tried them out and found their premiums going up month-on-month after the insurance company arbitrarily fiddled with the parameters of what it considered 'dangerous'.
Brake hard to avoid a hazard? Dangerous.
Accelerate hard to overtake a lorry on the motorway? Dangerous.
Corner in such a way that causes the bodyshell to remain anything but absolutely perpendicular throughout? Dangerous.
Infringe a speed limit by so much as 0.5mph? Dangerous.
Stretch a gear beyond 2000rpm? Dangerous.
After a while they realised they were looking at an insurance bill twice or in some cases three times the size of their existing non-telematic arrangement, and happily handed the things back. Forget driving in a way that even approaches enjoyable - these things fined you unless you drove like a completely inflexible robot incapable of adapting to the road conditions.
Yet more crap from people who seem to think that more computers are the solution to absolutely everything.
Also, I remember a You & Yours programme back in March last year where a number of proven safe motorists with very long NCBs tried them out and found their premiums going up month-on-month after the insurance company arbitrarily fiddled with the parameters of what it considered 'dangerous'.
Brake hard to avoid a hazard? Dangerous.
Accelerate hard to overtake a lorry on the motorway? Dangerous.
Corner in such a way that causes the bodyshell to remain anything but absolutely perpendicular throughout? Dangerous.
Infringe a speed limit by so much as 0.5mph? Dangerous.
Stretch a gear beyond 2000rpm? Dangerous.
After a while they realised they were looking at an insurance bill twice or in some cases three times the size of their existing non-telematic arrangement, and happily handed the things back. Forget driving in a way that even approaches enjoyable - these things fined you unless you drove like a completely inflexible robot incapable of adapting to the road conditions.
Yet more crap from people who seem to think that more computers are the solution to absolutely everything.
nedward said:
I thought there was already a scheme in place that rewards careful drivers, "no claim discount"!?
They say that it will help young drivers but they will only cover 19 to 25 with two years no claim discount. So it is only for youngsters who have already proved that they can drive for two years without making a claim.
JOKE!
Not having a go but five years before making an initial post must be some kind of a record surely?They say that it will help young drivers but they will only cover 19 to 25 with two years no claim discount. So it is only for youngsters who have already proved that they can drive for two years without making a claim.
JOKE!
V6GTA said:
Good for young drivers but hate the idea of these things.
I'm young and I wouldn't touch the thing. I know of precisely no one else my age who have done anything more than briefly consider it. Maybe some might go for it for the free insurance but anyone who can afford to buy a new car can afford to buy and insure something better than a weedy little Citroen.Also, if you do get rewarded with extra off premiums for good driving it won't be that much having looked into policies like this.
If other companies start producing cars like this I worry for us.
expect to see plenty for sale secondhand after a year, when these youngsters go to renew their insurance, and then find out just how tight the insurers will be on their driving style.
instead of a reduced premium any slip eg creeping over the limit, will allow the insurers to hike their premium.
thats a good thing, as the stories will prevent other drivers buying similarly equiped cars, so manufacturers will stay well clear.
also, these boxs will inevitably evolve into some additional road tax, logging miles travelled etc.
price of older cars will sky rocket
instead of a reduced premium any slip eg creeping over the limit, will allow the insurers to hike their premium.
thats a good thing, as the stories will prevent other drivers buying similarly equiped cars, so manufacturers will stay well clear.
also, these boxs will inevitably evolve into some additional road tax, logging miles travelled etc.
price of older cars will sky rocket
loudlashadjuster said:
Also there is a real risk that buyers of cars equipped with 'black boxes' will be concentrating on not breaking 'rules' than safe driving. Look at how some people react to average speed cameras. It's far too simplistic to say "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about".. !!
well'Rd said:
nedward said:
I thought there was already a scheme in place that rewards careful drivers, "no claim discount"!?
They say that it will help young drivers but they will only cover 19 to 25 with two years no claim discount. So it is only for youngsters who have already proved that they can drive for two years without making a claim.
JOKE!
Not having a go but five years before making an initial post must be some kind of a record surely?They say that it will help young drivers but they will only cover 19 to 25 with two years no claim discount. So it is only for youngsters who have already proved that they can drive for two years without making a claim.
JOKE!
This is everything that is wrong with society today. We will, by and large, accept it because of the skewed initial costs which are artificially manipulated to force us into it in the first place. A hateful scheme preying on the young drivers.
mikebradford said:
expect to see plenty for sale secondhand after a year, when these youngsters go to renew their insurance, and then find out just how tight the insurers will be on their driving style.
Why wouldn't they just change to an insurance policy that doesn't use the black box? [paranoid]I imagine the Citroen technicians will have loads of fun ragging customer cars around to drive up insurance for awkward customers. [/paranoid]There needs to be a "valet" key, for servicing and illegal night racing. Nuts, that won't work.
How long until these things are in all hire cars? You'll have to stop doing the handbrake turns, clutchless gearchanges and burnouts then.
How long until these things are in all hire cars? You'll have to stop doing the handbrake turns, clutchless gearchanges and burnouts then.
PH said:
What's got our tongues wagging is the French manufacturer's decision to equip its C1 Connexion special edition with a standard - in other words, non-optional - 'black box' recorder.
I think it is optional, even if you really really want a C1, you just have to not buy the special edition with the recorder.kambites said:
Why wouldn't they just change to an insurance policy that doesn't use the black box? paranoia maybe, but only my opinion
mikebradford said:
kambites said:
Why wouldn't they just change to an insurance policy that doesn't use the black box? paranoia maybe, but only my opinion
That your insurance system is ridiculous also (didn't know it's THAT bad) is a situation, that deserves system solution (pay extensive voluntary driver training in favour of lower insurance or something like that). Basically it's the same story about boiling frog that you are where you are with your insurance costs..
kambites said:
Zajda said:
kambites said:
Given how inaccessible motoring is becoming for young drivers due to insurance costs, I think it's a good thing overall. I think for many young drivers it is probably now a choice between having one of these boxes and driving sensibly, or not driving at all.
I think that overall it's a ridiculous idea. And certainly you don't need more of frightened slow drivers, watching their speedos instead of the road. I'm certainly not implying that these are a good thing overall, just that for some individuals they are probably a necessity.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th February 10:57
I think that if this black box was an optional item in a class of car more likely to attract 'responsible' drivers, such as a Golf Plus (did you know that that has a thermos flask holder?) then it would be more likely to positively rather than negatively impact sales. Which surely is what the point of fitting it must be.
arkenphel said:
realistically, though, what kinda guy would bring a car like this to a trackday. It's a moving roadblock.
You'd be surprised i took a Kia Sorento people carrier on a track day at cadwell, and I was the one being held up. I almost died laughing due to its comedy cornering though. handling by slumberland..
Twincam16 said:
They've already been shown to have problems: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
Also, I remember a You & Yours programme back in March last year where a number of proven safe motorists with very long NCBs tried them out and found their premiums going up month-on-month after the insurance company arbitrarily fiddled with the parameters of what it considered 'dangerous'.
Brake hard to avoid a hazard? Dangerous.
Accelerate hard to overtake a lorry on the motorway? Dangerous.
Corner in such a way that causes the bodyshell to remain anything but absolutely perpendicular throughout? Dangerous.
Infringe a speed limit by so much as 0.5mph? Dangerous.
Stretch a gear beyond 2000rpm? Dangerous.
After a while they realised they were looking at an insurance bill twice or in some cases three times the size of their existing non-telematic arrangement, and happily handed the things back. Forget driving in a way that even approaches enjoyable - these things fined you unless you drove like a completely inflexible robot incapable of adapting to the road conditions.
Yet more crap from people who seem to think that more computers are the solution to absolutely everything.
This definitely my biggest concern - you are completely at the mercy of how the insurance company choose to interpret the data.Also, I remember a You & Yours programme back in March last year where a number of proven safe motorists with very long NCBs tried them out and found their premiums going up month-on-month after the insurance company arbitrarily fiddled with the parameters of what it considered 'dangerous'.
Brake hard to avoid a hazard? Dangerous.
Accelerate hard to overtake a lorry on the motorway? Dangerous.
Corner in such a way that causes the bodyshell to remain anything but absolutely perpendicular throughout? Dangerous.
Infringe a speed limit by so much as 0.5mph? Dangerous.
Stretch a gear beyond 2000rpm? Dangerous.
After a while they realised they were looking at an insurance bill twice or in some cases three times the size of their existing non-telematic arrangement, and happily handed the things back. Forget driving in a way that even approaches enjoyable - these things fined you unless you drove like a completely inflexible robot incapable of adapting to the road conditions.
Yet more crap from people who seem to think that more computers are the solution to absolutely everything.
I work in finance and see double standards that are frequently used to the benfit of the insurer.
Life Cover
'Smoked one cigarette in the last year sir? Smoker rates applied indiscriminently to your life cover then. Double premium for you.'
Annuities
'Whats that sir, you only smoke the ocassional cigarette? No enhanced rates for your annuity as you are not a habitual smoker'
Giving insurance companies carte blanche to interpret black box data and apply premium hikes as a result terrifies me. Car insurance is already a mandatory ponzi scheme with the whole PI claim noses-in-the-trough scenario.
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