RE: Citroen fits insurance black boxes

[Hellbound]

Oh well. I guess if you lose control whilst driving at 60 in a 30 zone and then blame oily roads or something for the crash when plod arrive on the scene, they'll be able to check your story.

It's strange how people think it's their 'right' to be able to cover up their own stupidity by lying getting away with it.

If two cars are involved they should both be equipped with a device otherwise it would be hard to defend yourself if the other chap hasn't got a black box recording of his driver inputs during the incident.

Still think CCTV and black boxes should be in every car and we should get cheap insurance. Can't remember the last time I drove like an idiot on a public road.

Trailer + track car + drift car. 'Problem' solved.

[Rick_1138]

My worry isnt so much about insurance but more where this could lead, specifically servicing and warranty claims.

They plug in your car, look at the data and say, " you were driving outwith what we class as 'normal'" etc, so wont cover warranty claims, or if you drive faster or more erratic than say granny smith, then your costs increase as you obviously "work the car harder" etc.

Its all rubbish, but it does make you wonder, any way to eek out more cash.

hmm

[Sten J]

I'd certainly bet a few quid on this being normal practice in 10/15 years time, if not before. We'll probably tell our grand children our tales of driving freedom which they'll find hard to believe

[Twincam16]

Captain Muppet said:

Would anyone with a C1 be interested in buying some tyres that can only pull 0.4g?
You can drive flat out everywhere and not register a blip.

People have been driving very normally in ordinary cars with these things fitted and found themselves penalised for driving safely (doing emergency stops etc).

[Twincam16]

Birdster said:

As far as I'm aware this only monitors aggressive driving. So harsh acceleration, deceleration, and manoeuvres.

It doesn't really pick out the bad drivers. Such as those who don't indicate, check their mirrors, who have poor lane discipline, and those who jump red lights. What about those who drive too close? Or even those who use the phone whilst driving?

All it appears to do is monitor speed and smooth driving. It goes some of the way, but you can do those well, whilst still being an awful driver.

Also, the insurance company arbitrarily decides what is 'harsh' depending on how much money it needs to make.

[VeeFource]

Good luck selling this to anyone who isn't 19 years old Citroen! It's the beginning of the end..


..wait a minute if I strap one to my head does that mean I can get cheap life insurance & get into heaven?!?

[ambuletz]

Rick_1138 said:

My worry isnt so much about insurance but more where this could lead, specifically servicing and warranty claims.

They plug in your car, look at the data and say, " you were driving outwith what we class as 'normal'" etc, so wont cover warranty claims, or if you drive faster or more erratic than say granny smith, then your costs increase as you obviously "work the car harder" etc.

Its all rubbish, but it does make you wonder, any way to eek out more cash.

hmm

I can understand that on perhaps a brand new car where the manufacturers want you to use partial throttle for xxxx miles, but beyond that would seem abit silly. The cars are all built within tolerances. where do you draw the line?

dealer: sorry you was revving your car too much we won't fix it under warranty.
you: That's what the fking rev limiter is for you prick.

I just hope afew years down the line black boxes like this don't get backed by legislation and all cars being required to have it under law.

[Zircon]

Snip - oh dear, I have cut the wires by accident!

[Captain Muppet]

Twincam16 said:

Captain Muppet said:

Would anyone with a C1 be interested in buying some tyres that can only pull 0.4g?
You can drive flat out everywhere and not register a blip.

People have been driving very normally in ordinary cars with these things fitted and found themselves penalised for driving safely (doing emergency stops etc).

Emergency stops are not a sign of safe driving, they are a sign that you have been surprised by something.

[Amirhussain]

Load of crap.

[Silverbullet767]

Captain Muppet said:

Twincam16 said:

Captain Muppet said:

Would anyone with a C1 be interested in buying some tyres that can only pull 0.4g?
You can drive flat out everywhere and not register a blip.

People have been driving very normally in ordinary cars with these things fitted and found themselves penalised for driving safely (doing emergency stops etc).

Emergency stops are not a sign of safe driving, they are a sign that you have been surprised by something.

Emergency stops are a sign of an emergency, which is why you need to stop

[Debaser]

Hellbound said:

Still think CCTV and black boxes should be in every car and we should get cheap insurance. Can't remember the last time I drove like an idiot on a public road.

I (usually) drive like a boring old fart on the road but I still don't want a black box or CCTV in my car. As long as I have the choice I'll never own a car with a black box.

[trashbat]

Previous said:

Agreed, unfortunately for Ph'ers though ours will likely* be going up becasue of this.

• Massive generalisation assuming Ph'ers are more likely to drive 'enthusiastically' at times than other road users

Let's assume the perfect measuring device for a moment.

Is this kind of driving safer than the norm? If it is, then why would it go up? If it isn't, then what's the problem?

[405dogvan]

Zircon said:

Snip - oh dear, I have cut the wires by accident!

Welcome to the 21st century - that sort of thing no-longer works and hasn't for at least 5-10 years.

Pretty much all of the electronics in modern cars works like a computer network. Remove a device from that network and the other devices will notice and react to that.

One of the ECUs will certainly notice and likely throw a fault-code which probably means a warning-light, probably a red one in-fact (bye bye MOT) - it could also trigger some form of safe/get-you-home mode too - it might even just disable the car when it's next turned-off and so on.

This isn't 1977 anymore, you can't just remove a device and expect the car to function. Even things like door locks and your headunit are on the network and will be noticed if they disappear (yes, there are cars where changing the headunit will cause issues!!)

[trashbat]

Silverbullet767 said:

Emergency stops are a sign of an emergency, which is why you need to stop

If you regularly emergency stop, what should happen to your insurance premium?

[JaguarsportXJR]

kambites said:

Given how inaccessible motoring is becoming for young drivers due to insurance costs, I think it's a good thing overall. I think for many young drivers it is probably now a choice between having one of these boxes and driving sensibly, or not driving at all.

Have to agree, although the whole idea of it makes my skin crawl.

If you genuinely believe that this will bring down the prices of insurance for young drivers - or anyone - in the long term, then I admire your naivety.

"I'm sorry Mr. Young Driver but you didn't drive carefully enough last year so your premium is going up by 250%. Although you had no accidents in your 12,000 miles we've analysed the data from your black box and you drove dangerously."

"What? When?"

"Erm..."

"Well?"

"Erm... Ah! You broke the speed limit on three occasions we don't have to specify by an undisclosable amount. It's all well within the regulations you know."

They're insurance companies, i.e. theiving scum who will do everything in their power not to pay out and then raise your premium, because they can.

(Yes, I have had some bad experiences and it's left me a little jaded. Sorry.)

[carreauchompeur]

trashbat said:

et's assume the perfect measuring device for a moment.

Is this kind of driving safer than the norm? If it is, then why would it go up? If it isn't, then what's the problem?

Hmm, lots of good driving would involve high G forces and hence be considered "unsafe". For instance, in the AD manual you are actively encouraged to reach your safe "target" speed ASAP. And so long as you are cornering within the limits of vision, that's safe- But increased confidence on corners might involve higher G-forces than the norm.

I think. IMHO'n'all

[JaguarsportXJR]

Captain Muppet said:

Emergency stops are not a sign of safe driving, they are a sign that you have been surprised by something.

Very true. I've never been suprised by a child hiding behind a van to play chicken by running out in front of me. But then I suppose my X-Ray vision would help with that.

[405dogvan]

Debaser said:

Hellbound said:

Still think CCTV and black boxes should be in every car and we should get cheap insurance. Can't remember the last time I drove like an idiot on a public road.

I (usually) drive like a boring old fart on the road but I still don't want a black box or CCTV in my car. As long as I have the choice I'll never own a car with a black box.

Hellbound may not think he drives badly but at least 1 person who's followed him recently thought so - because that's how it works

I agree with Debaser tho, it's unlikely that having the stuff will help you, it's quite possible it won't and it's really just allowing someone to set parameters on a service they provide (insuring my personal risk) which I feel are unreasonable.

The whole mentality of the insurer is what needs CCTV and a black box - their overbearing efforts to not pay-out which then melt into efforts to pay-out as much as possible to everyone on earth (sore finger? Here's £3K - Car written off? Here's 20p)

[Escort Si-130]

What a joke this thing is. I would oppose it as much as possible. The insurance companies would soon bump the price up to recover costs of using these things. At the end of the day, that stupid thing with one years free insurance is probably covered out of the fact the premium was already sky high for he people in this age bracket in the first place.
These items are daylight robbery and is only another way for insurance to make more money. They are corrupt scandalous s that rip people off and can see the reason why many do no want to drive without insurance. It really takes the piss. Even down to bogus claims companies linked to them, then over inflating insurance repair costs purposely.