RE: PH Blog: Goodbye three-door, hello estate?
Discussion
matty1980 said:
From my personal point of view maybe this makes sense? I have gone from a Clio 182 to an Octavia vRS estate. Now I can't see myself not having a fast estate.
Yet at 17 while you wanted a 182, would you really want a grown-up, old man, family style estate car? Height of cool maybe?dave stew said:
I do that when I take my kids to school. Me and first son in the front. Second son follows in a taxi...
Haha. Brilliant 
It's all personal taste. I think hatches look better in 3 door than 5 door ANYDAY! Although, i have a huge love for big estates. The only thing that puts me off is a big wobbly bum hanging off the back of the car on iterations that retain the hatch wheelbase length.
B7 RS4 Wagons are just stunning though. Really well balanced design.
dave stew said:
X5TUU said:
There seems to be a lot of people mentioning about people getting in and out of the rear seats in a 3dr being an issue ... Honestly no one has ever sat in the rear seats of my current Astra VXR or Corsa VXR or Conti for that matter ... and only on e prior to that can I remember anyone (other than my woofer) getting in the back of one of my cars ... When more than 2 ppl we generally use taxi's ... Surely this is the norm?!?
I do that when I take my kids to school. Me and first son in the front. Second son follows in a taxi...Love the Civic VTI! So dour as a hatchback, even more so as an Aerodeck, and yet hiding a screaming VTEC underneath. Really cool, and quite alluring at SOTW kind of money.
Interesting to note on the five-door hot hatch subject that Seat are now offering a three-door Leon (and so Cupra?) after two generations of five-door only. So maybe there's life in it yet? I for one hope so as, like others have said, five-door hatches do have those unfortunate connotations with family cars. A five-door Focus RS simply won't hold the same appeal to my eyes.
Interesting to note on the five-door hot hatch subject that Seat are now offering a three-door Leon (and so Cupra?) after two generations of five-door only. So maybe there's life in it yet? I for one hope so as, like others have said, five-door hatches do have those unfortunate connotations with family cars. A five-door Focus RS simply won't hold the same appeal to my eyes.
SOTW anyone? Assuming its not dodgy or a misprice.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
I don't understand the argument that estates are just for families. Im 23 and would love an st estate, given the lack of budget an octavia vrs is more likely. A fast decent looking car you can fit mates and luggage in, perfect for a wee le mans trip. What's not too like. For me there is only 1 exception, the pug 306, looks soo much better in 3 door guise.
Foodfocus said:
I don't understand the argument that estates are just for families. Im 23 and would love an st estate, given the lack of budget an octavia vrs is more likely. A fast decent looking car you can fit mates and luggage in, perfect for a wee le mans trip. What's not too like. For me there is only 1 exception, the pug 306, looks soo much better in 3 door guise.
Not sure decent looking car is fair to good looking cars. Almost no estate looks good compared to genuine good looking cars. And buying a car specifically to take mates out in seems some what odd, stupid or specialist.binnerboy said:
I can justify a fast estate to my wife, I cannot justify a hot hatch as I cannot take stuff to the tip in it.
Since I became a dad a fast estate meets all the family stuff whilst allowing me to have some fun behind the wheel.
MPVs I hate, no reason , I just hate them (it is not rational I know so please it is just a strong opinion not based on factor sober judgement) so I would never go there fast estates give me an option to please both me and the rest of the family.
If I didn't have a family I probably wouldn't care about the number of doors as 90% of the time I would be the only one in the car.
so more fast estates please !
I felt pretty much the same until last year when my wife and I decided to test drive an S-Max with the 2.0t Ecoboost engine that’s now in the Focus ST. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it performed, so much so that I bought one as the family wagon. And if it wasn’t for the fact that I can’t stand the new dash design in the Focus I would have seriously considered an ST wagon as a possible replacement for my 9-5 estate. Since I became a dad a fast estate meets all the family stuff whilst allowing me to have some fun behind the wheel.
MPVs I hate, no reason , I just hate them (it is not rational I know so please it is just a strong opinion not based on factor sober judgement) so I would never go there fast estates give me an option to please both me and the rest of the family.
If I didn't have a family I probably wouldn't care about the number of doors as 90% of the time I would be the only one in the car.
so more fast estates please !
Now if VW was to bring out a Golf GTI estate ….....
I'd love a Hot Estate, I am a family man, so i know you don't suddenly need a greenhouse strapped to the back of your normal hatch when you join the club. Children are quite small really and can be installed in human sized seats with the right adapter with ease - they also don't eat much so you don't need a 2000ltr boot to get it all back from Sainsburys - but estates are great if you have a hobby that needs 'stuff' moved about. 'Fun Lifestyle Estate' being it on!
But you will have to live with a milder version of the 'Van Effect' or 'Transitdous Arseacheus' to give it it's Latin name.
The Van Effect, as anyone who owns one will tell you is a unfortunate condition that means you are number 1 on the list of people your friends, relatives, neighbours, well wishers, colleagues, associates, peers and old school mates will call on out of the blue if they want anything big, dirty, smelly or illegal disposed off or collected, it also bestows on them a sense of entitlement so great that if you politely tell them you'd rather not collect a s
t and vomit soaked rug from them, at a time that suits them, with only a vague suggestion of where to dispose of it (because they're too busy to come along) you're a "fking cock" - its also highly contagious to the point where it's very easy to be effected as the "mate of a bloke with a van / estate" or worse have your services offered free of charge to friends of people you barely knew 10 years ago at school.
But you will have to live with a milder version of the 'Van Effect' or 'Transitdous Arseacheus' to give it it's Latin name.
The Van Effect, as anyone who owns one will tell you is a unfortunate condition that means you are number 1 on the list of people your friends, relatives, neighbours, well wishers, colleagues, associates, peers and old school mates will call on out of the blue if they want anything big, dirty, smelly or illegal disposed off or collected, it also bestows on them a sense of entitlement so great that if you politely tell them you'd rather not collect a s
t and vomit soaked rug from them, at a time that suits them, with only a vague suggestion of where to dispose of it (because they're too busy to come along) you're a "fking cock" - its also highly contagious to the point where it's very easy to be effected as the "mate of a bloke with a van / estate" or worse have your services offered free of charge to friends of people you barely knew 10 years ago at school. 
I'm a convert ref fast estates. I bought a VR4 Legnum a few years ago and it opened my eyes to what they were capable of. The Evo Wagon though is something else - you totally forget that its an estate the dynamics are just so good.
Amazing machine, was a rare manual version and only cost £2k. Unfortunately it was stolen and written off. Hence the Evo Wagon....
And had this for a while too. Great power, noise and presence but just too big to hussle. Wife hated it too!
So yeah, fast estates rock!
Edited by longbow on Wednesday 20th February 17:15
the article said:
But I can’t help but feel their extinction is fast becoming an inevitability.
No chance.There always has been a desire for 3-door variants, even though they are invariably less practical than a 5 door equivalent. Why?
Aesthetics.
Except for a few isolated cases, 3 doors always look better.
Of course, if a manufacturer has a tight developement/tooling budget, and they can only afford to tool one variant, they may well go for a 5 door (as it's less of a compromise for the consumer).
If you need recent proof, Land Rover spent a lot of time deciding on how the Evoque would be sold: 3-door only/5-door only/3&5 door, but realised on a vehicle where design is very important, it was essential to have the best looking model possible, i.e. a 3 door (even though the 5 door doesn't look that much worse).
I think they even charge about £1k more for a 3 door vs the equivalent 5 door.
I think it's a good opportunity. I enjoy cars that go better than they look and many estate cars aren't perceived to be as sporty as their hatch/saloon counterparts. The difference between 3 and 5 door cars' rigidity is minimal these days and if you drive on the road, largely irrelevant.
Get one in a dark colour with subtle wheels, no silly spoilers, some Peppa Pig sun blinds and other child paraphernalia. Then tune and enjoy without attracting the wrong sort of attention. I think it'd be quite a Q Car...
Get one in a dark colour with subtle wheels, no silly spoilers, some Peppa Pig sun blinds and other child paraphernalia. Then tune and enjoy without attracting the wrong sort of attention. I think it'd be quite a Q Car...
Leins said:
This has come up recently, but it's not just the opening for the front doors of a 4/5-door that can be the problem, but the location of the B-pillar for taller drivers, as it can hinder side-visibility with the seat pushed back
Saying that, estates are probably my favourite car body-style, and I've no real need for practicality. Shooting brakes are quite nice too though!
As a midget I have never considered the B-pillar location problem. I love estates too and other than for snowboard space don't particularly need oneSaying that, estates are probably my favourite car body-style, and I've no real need for practicality. Shooting brakes are quite nice too though!
I like an estate car and if I was buying something where I had a choice between Hatchback or estate I'd pick the estate everytime.
Fast estates are a great way to get close to everything you need from a car in one package and the sooner new car buyers realise this the better the used market will be.
Fast estates are a great way to get close to everything you need from a car in one package and the sooner new car buyers realise this the better the used market will be.
Personally I hate the idea of an estate. I can see the practicalities, but I can't see beyond how they look.
You can make an estate look acceptable, but they aren't a patch on a 3-door hatchback.
The general consensus from the uninformed, dopey masses is that a 5-door is bigger than a 3-door equivalent.
We of course know that this simply isn't true, no manufacturer will have an entirely different car for both models (although there may be exceptions).
This is sadly just a by-product of the problem with cars getting bigger. And bigger. To the point where a Mini is not mini, but massive.
I won't own a 5-door until absolutely necessary, by choice.
You can make an estate look acceptable, but they aren't a patch on a 3-door hatchback.
The general consensus from the uninformed, dopey masses is that a 5-door is bigger than a 3-door equivalent.
We of course know that this simply isn't true, no manufacturer will have an entirely different car for both models (although there may be exceptions).
This is sadly just a by-product of the problem with cars getting bigger. And bigger. To the point where a Mini is not mini, but massive.
I won't own a 5-door until absolutely necessary, by choice.
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