RE: PH Heroes: Honda S2000
Discussion
Bought mine in December (phase 2 model) to exploit the lovely roads in Northern Ireland.
I absolutely love it...
Its caught me out twice (tail stepped out when shifting from first to second) but after driving for 2 months and playing in a deserted car park its become more predictable and I know how to provoke.
The engine is addictive the gear change is perfect, you find yourself screaming everywhere.
I've never had a problem with low down tourqe, its fine to drive a round town at 30mph in 5th gear. I will admit that mine has the kangarooing problem when pulling away in first.
Things i'd change would be the lack of cup holders, the lack of a glove box (although the boot is surprisingly big) and the exhaust as the GF has a Mk 3 MX-5 sport which is louder than mine and its denting my man hood.
It is a car you have to learn or a 8/10ths car as you're always aware that there's no stability or traction control to save you if things go wrong, I find it easier to go faster in the MX-5 although thats slowly changing.
I saw it as a stepping stone to a Boxster s or Cayman as I currently can't justify spending 5 figures on a car i'd hardly use, but don't think i'd ever get tired of engaging vTec. (yo)
I absolutely love it...
Its caught me out twice (tail stepped out when shifting from first to second) but after driving for 2 months and playing in a deserted car park its become more predictable and I know how to provoke.
The engine is addictive the gear change is perfect, you find yourself screaming everywhere.
I've never had a problem with low down tourqe, its fine to drive a round town at 30mph in 5th gear. I will admit that mine has the kangarooing problem when pulling away in first.
Things i'd change would be the lack of cup holders, the lack of a glove box (although the boot is surprisingly big) and the exhaust as the GF has a Mk 3 MX-5 sport which is louder than mine and its denting my man hood.
It is a car you have to learn or a 8/10ths car as you're always aware that there's no stability or traction control to save you if things go wrong, I find it easier to go faster in the MX-5 although thats slowly changing.
I saw it as a stepping stone to a Boxster s or Cayman as I currently can't justify spending 5 figures on a car i'd hardly use, but don't think i'd ever get tired of engaging vTec. (yo)
Edited by Decibel on Friday 22 February 11:23
Edited by Decibel on Friday 22 February 11:25
omgus said:
I found it to be very cheap on insurance quotes over the last few days, less than a 3.0 Z4 and 2/3s that of a boxster.
When I had mine it scared me but I have come to terms with it and realised I had a dog.
Wheel alignment and good tyres/pressures are a must as soon as you buy one or it will scare the s
t out of you.I'm on my second one now! I had a 2000 model and just got a 2005. They are such great drivers cars you can use every day I couldn't find anything else that ticked all the boxes for me.
I just love the handling, they're really not dangerously snappy as some people like to make out, but they are a 50/50 weight balanced RWD car, if you lift off harsh mid corner or put too much power down at the wrong time the back will come round - it's a car that will move a bit under you when pushing on but that's what cars are SUPPOSED to do!
As the article states, they will not flatter a bad driver. You feel involved and your inputs really make a difference.
In the wet they are fine, just be smooth and don't be a knob and they won't suddenly spin you off into the nearest bush/wall/school with no warning.
I agree with the steering criticism, what they lack in steering wheel feel (which isn't much really) is made up for by chassis feel. You can feel what the car is doing at all 4 corners and as long as you've got a basic appreciation of car handling I'd recommend them to anyone.
You need to stick with it though and learn the car! On the first test drive or just booting it in a straight line it won't feel that amazing. Once you start stringing some nice B Roads together in it suddenly it will all start to make sense!
I just love the handling, they're really not dangerously snappy as some people like to make out, but they are a 50/50 weight balanced RWD car, if you lift off harsh mid corner or put too much power down at the wrong time the back will come round - it's a car that will move a bit under you when pushing on but that's what cars are SUPPOSED to do!
As the article states, they will not flatter a bad driver. You feel involved and your inputs really make a difference.
In the wet they are fine, just be smooth and don't be a knob and they won't suddenly spin you off into the nearest bush/wall/school with no warning.
I agree with the steering criticism, what they lack in steering wheel feel (which isn't much really) is made up for by chassis feel. You can feel what the car is doing at all 4 corners and as long as you've got a basic appreciation of car handling I'd recommend them to anyone.
You need to stick with it though and learn the car! On the first test drive or just booting it in a straight line it won't feel that amazing. Once you start stringing some nice B Roads together in it suddenly it will all start to make sense!
Edited by RichwiththeS2000 on Friday 22 February 11:24
Edited by RichwiththeS2000 on Friday 22 February 11:33
A couple of years back I gave serious consideration to trading my DC2 in against a used S2000- the reason being that I didn't need the extra practicality of the Integra's back seats/rear hatch etc and the insurance worked out almost identical.
I loved the looks, loved the screaming V-tec engine in the Integra and I guess I had kind of decided in my head that the S2000 would basically be a faster, RWD, convertible Integra.
But after driving a few examples it just didn't live up to what I had imagined. It didn't feel noticably quicker than my DC2, didn't sound as good, bizarrely felt like a bigger/heavier car, and just didn't feel like it offered as much grin-inducing fun.
So I didn't make the switch in the end, but I think this disappointment was likely more to do with going from an extremely well sorted DC2, and less to do with any short-comings on the S2000.
And this is probably why, a year after selling my DC2, I am longing for some more V-Tec goodness (and better fuel economy than the Starion) and I'm now back looking at S2000s all over again!
Although I am very slightly leaning towards an Accord Type-R this time...
I loved the looks, loved the screaming V-tec engine in the Integra and I guess I had kind of decided in my head that the S2000 would basically be a faster, RWD, convertible Integra.
But after driving a few examples it just didn't live up to what I had imagined. It didn't feel noticably quicker than my DC2, didn't sound as good, bizarrely felt like a bigger/heavier car, and just didn't feel like it offered as much grin-inducing fun.
So I didn't make the switch in the end, but I think this disappointment was likely more to do with going from an extremely well sorted DC2, and less to do with any short-comings on the S2000.
And this is probably why, a year after selling my DC2, I am longing for some more V-Tec goodness (and better fuel economy than the Starion) and I'm now back looking at S2000s all over again!
Although I am very slightly leaning towards an Accord Type-R this time...
I loved mine and possibly the car I regret selling the most. April 2006-March 2007 and some of the best motoring of my life. Sure, insurance was expensive, but for the relative performance and the package on offer it was much cheaper than the 986S I was also considering. It also generated far more interest and goodwill from the public than a Boxster did/does too.
Taught me a lot about RWD and absolutely loved every second of wringing the engine's neck. A turbo-diesel could certaily give it a scare for effortless torque, but there are few greater pleasures than constantly stirring the superb gearbox.
I have considered buying another S2000 several times since then - they're looking incredibly good value and still relatively cheap to maintain, aside from the known issues with suspension bushes seizing and hoods wearing over the frame. But I'm a firm devotee to the saying "never go back" and there are plenty of other cars I still wish to own.
The S2000 is, however, still one of my favourite cars to this day!
Taught me a lot about RWD and absolutely loved every second of wringing the engine's neck. A turbo-diesel could certaily give it a scare for effortless torque, but there are few greater pleasures than constantly stirring the superb gearbox.
I have considered buying another S2000 several times since then - they're looking incredibly good value and still relatively cheap to maintain, aside from the known issues with suspension bushes seizing and hoods wearing over the frame. But I'm a firm devotee to the saying "never go back" and there are plenty of other cars I still wish to own.
The S2000 is, however, still one of my favourite cars to this day!
Edited by Spuffington on Friday 22 February 11:37
I try to avoid reading articles about the S2000, mainly because it is completely and utterly what I want right now, and I could just about afford one... but as people are saying above, insurance is barking. It's gutting to see, but I suspect part of the reason values have fallen so low is just that. Only older people can insure them, and the same people may well feel the car is not appropriate.
What a shame - I think it's pretty, practical, fast and reliable - a future classic. I reckon this will end up like the Porsche 924/44s in the used market, with a healthy lot still regularly changing hands after 20 years with telephone-number mileages.
What a shame - I think it's pretty, practical, fast and reliable - a future classic. I reckon this will end up like the Porsche 924/44s in the used market, with a healthy lot still regularly changing hands after 20 years with telephone-number mileages.
300bhp/ton said:
PistonHeads said:
the F20C could only muster 153lb ft (162 in the stat panel),
Would PH be able to show me another 2.0 n/a petrol engine that makes significantly more torque than this?Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 22 February 10:41
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 22 February 10:42
but i would love a 9000rpm redline
I had one for about a year which was great. It was unfortunately keyed in a car park which made me sell it for an R32 GTR and a daily driver. Now have my R32 GTR and collecting my new S2000 daily driver tomorrow 
Awesome cars and although the steering doesn't feel as good as it could I never found it a huge issue.
Awesome cars and although the steering doesn't feel as good as it could I never found it a huge issue.
I've had my 2001 car since 2004. For the past 4 or 5 years I've been 'looking' for a replacement. Something a bit more sensible, a couple of extra seats would be handy, but still fun to drive and better on the motorway. I have failed utterly. Each time I find something that I like to drive or that is as much fun I stop and think about running costs (I know I shouldn't do this), even ignoring the purchase price of what I think are suitable replacements I can't justify in terms of value for money the extra fuel/tire/servicing costs for what I would gain. 997/M3 I'm looking at you! My insurance is ok, particularly now I have a classic policy, but would be cheaper on almost anything else 
The article is pretty good IMO and covers the basics, you can find out all you ever wanted or needed to know over on S2ki.com. Mine is one of the earlier cars before the suspension revisions, and with a quicker steering rack, and I specifically chose to buy one of this age. Yes it can be very pointy, and can be snappy on the limit. Later cars got progressively less snappy and more predictable though softer right up until the last few with ASR fitted which went back closer to the original settings. Steering feel is an emotive issue, the information is there, but it takes a long time and a lot of miles to be able to pick it up. The steering is very precise though, and it is a very quick rack, it really doesn't understeer at all and changes direction very readily.
As others have mentioned the car is very sensitive to setup and to tires (both pressure and the actual tire). The OEM Bridgestones were dreadful and very scary in the wet, but brilliant in the dry. I now run Toyo Proxes T1R's, which are not quite as good in the dry, but improve things a lot in the wet (and the cold and the snow), more grip and more progressive towards the limit of that grip.
It doesn't feel particularly slow out of vtec, manic on it. It is still fun to drive at or near the speed limit, just stick to 2nd and 3rd. The gearchange is amazing and it rewards precise and smooth driving, particularly benefitting from heel and toe or rev matching on downshifts. It doesn't reward clumsiness (not saying that the others here were guilty of that, just saying). You do not lift off mid corner. Slow in fast out is the way to go. I think of driving it as being like a 4 wheeled motorbike. Treat it with similar respect and approach and it is a very rewarding experience.
Surprisingly practical for me. We've been on 2 week camping trips in France pre child, I carry a DH mountain bike on the back, I can fit a week's shopping in it. Motorways are not its preferred environment however as it is pretty noisy and not very relaxing for a long stretch (even with a hardtop on).
My car just passed 90000 miles, is 12 years old next month and I just had my first component failure. A sidelight bulb has gone!
It isn't a car to suit everyone. Not everyone can fit in one for a start (the steering wheel isn't adjustable, and the seat doesn't have much scope for adjustment either). But it suits me, and I'm going to be keeping mine a bit longer and just rack up the extra miles that my new job will cause. I don't have room for a beater really though I'm still trying to convince my wife on this point.
The article is pretty good IMO and covers the basics, you can find out all you ever wanted or needed to know over on S2ki.com. Mine is one of the earlier cars before the suspension revisions, and with a quicker steering rack, and I specifically chose to buy one of this age. Yes it can be very pointy, and can be snappy on the limit. Later cars got progressively less snappy and more predictable though softer right up until the last few with ASR fitted which went back closer to the original settings. Steering feel is an emotive issue, the information is there, but it takes a long time and a lot of miles to be able to pick it up. The steering is very precise though, and it is a very quick rack, it really doesn't understeer at all and changes direction very readily.
As others have mentioned the car is very sensitive to setup and to tires (both pressure and the actual tire). The OEM Bridgestones were dreadful and very scary in the wet, but brilliant in the dry. I now run Toyo Proxes T1R's, which are not quite as good in the dry, but improve things a lot in the wet (and the cold and the snow), more grip and more progressive towards the limit of that grip.
It doesn't feel particularly slow out of vtec, manic on it. It is still fun to drive at or near the speed limit, just stick to 2nd and 3rd. The gearchange is amazing and it rewards precise and smooth driving, particularly benefitting from heel and toe or rev matching on downshifts. It doesn't reward clumsiness (not saying that the others here were guilty of that, just saying). You do not lift off mid corner. Slow in fast out is the way to go. I think of driving it as being like a 4 wheeled motorbike. Treat it with similar respect and approach and it is a very rewarding experience.
Surprisingly practical for me. We've been on 2 week camping trips in France pre child, I carry a DH mountain bike on the back, I can fit a week's shopping in it. Motorways are not its preferred environment however as it is pretty noisy and not very relaxing for a long stretch (even with a hardtop on).
My car just passed 90000 miles, is 12 years old next month and I just had my first component failure. A sidelight bulb has gone!
It isn't a car to suit everyone. Not everyone can fit in one for a start (the steering wheel isn't adjustable, and the seat doesn't have much scope for adjustment either). But it suits me, and I'm going to be keeping mine a bit longer and just rack up the extra miles that my new job will cause. I don't have room for a beater really though I'm still trying to convince my wife on this point.
I have to agree that maybe a more focused alignment setup would make it better, as I had a fairly extreme autocross setting on an old mx5 I had so the turn in was unreal on that and it was so playful, but the fundamental handling balance that I had in the mx5 just was not there!
I would say these are a good 8/10ths car but at 9/10ths or 10/10ths these do not give enough feedback or confidence and are not consistant in the way they feel.
I did try some new wheels and tyres and some eibach springs etc etc.
I really did want the car to become the car I thought it would be but for me i`m sorry it felt like a fast civic with an unresolved chassis balance.
Fantastic engine though.
Maybe I never gave the car a chance to shine as trust me I can hold my own when it comes to handling rear drive in the wet, but after the no feel steering and coming around the way it did, I just lost complete interest in trying to make a car something i`m afraid it just wasnt....
And maybe I had a bad example?? who knows but the steering and other niggles made me not want to try another.
I have a Supra now and it does what I expect a powerful rear drive car to do!......
I would say these are a good 8/10ths car but at 9/10ths or 10/10ths these do not give enough feedback or confidence and are not consistant in the way they feel.
I did try some new wheels and tyres and some eibach springs etc etc.
I really did want the car to become the car I thought it would be but for me i`m sorry it felt like a fast civic with an unresolved chassis balance.
Fantastic engine though.
Maybe I never gave the car a chance to shine as trust me I can hold my own when it comes to handling rear drive in the wet, but after the no feel steering and coming around the way it did, I just lost complete interest in trying to make a car something i`m afraid it just wasnt....
And maybe I had a bad example?? who knows but the steering and other niggles made me not want to try another.
I have a Supra now and it does what I expect a powerful rear drive car to do!......
petrolhead888 said:
Hmmmm...
Never have I ever been so disappointed with a car that I really wanted to love as when I bought one of these.
I had 2 Lotus Elises previously and sold the last one as wanted to get into green laning and couldn`t justify the expense of the Elise sitting in the garage when the weather was poor and had a company car so it hardly got used....
Idea... Buy a Discovery TD5 and an S2000 as a plaything..
Bought a MK1 2000 S2000 in black, nice car and on the way home in it was really pleased with it as I sat in the red leather seats and looking at the stunning digital dashboard.
Now all my cars are always rear drive as I like to play, so at the first sign of rain I like to find a couple of deserted roundabouts and find out the handling balance so that i know what i`m dealing with.
On every car previous including a MK2 MR2 Turbo with 350 bhp I could slide the back end under complete control and learn the characteristics of the car.....
Nope not this... The S2000 snapped straight into an uncontrollable low speed spin no matter how quick I was with the steering (which gave no feel whatsoever)
oooh dear I wasnt expecting it to be as bad as this.
Tyres were all good and the correct factory bridgestones, Alignment had been recently done, hmm not good
Ok maybe its me, I shouldnt expect to be able to slide a car as its not really what I should be doing ( I just like to now and then!)
So drove it on my day off on a dry country road,
no no no.....
No feedback, no steering feel, Hard work, Stuttering in traffic (some common fault they all do that sir) what a massive disappointment.
Put a different exhaust on it to try and liven up proceedings but all that did was create an ear splitting drone in the cabin that really was not nice at all so ended back with standard exhaust.
Overall the car on paper had all the recipe I was looking for in a car and on face value seemed the perfect choice for me.
Never has a car promised so much and delivered so little so needless to say I will NEVER have another.
To people who just want to cruise around the countryside putting there foot down now and then on a straight road its a great car....
To the driving enthusiasts of this site........
Look elsewhere for your thrills
(Sorry for the negativity but I really had to pipe up about it after reading this article!)
I am afraid the man speaks the truth, I had a play with a Honda 2000 and was shocked at how easy the backend come around on you, and it seemed without warning, stepping the backend out for a little pay led to dangerous snap over steer which did not inspire confidence at all in the car. Never have I ever been so disappointed with a car that I really wanted to love as when I bought one of these.
I had 2 Lotus Elises previously and sold the last one as wanted to get into green laning and couldn`t justify the expense of the Elise sitting in the garage when the weather was poor and had a company car so it hardly got used....
Idea... Buy a Discovery TD5 and an S2000 as a plaything..
Bought a MK1 2000 S2000 in black, nice car and on the way home in it was really pleased with it as I sat in the red leather seats and looking at the stunning digital dashboard.
Now all my cars are always rear drive as I like to play, so at the first sign of rain I like to find a couple of deserted roundabouts and find out the handling balance so that i know what i`m dealing with.
On every car previous including a MK2 MR2 Turbo with 350 bhp I could slide the back end under complete control and learn the characteristics of the car.....
Nope not this... The S2000 snapped straight into an uncontrollable low speed spin no matter how quick I was with the steering (which gave no feel whatsoever)
oooh dear I wasnt expecting it to be as bad as this.
Tyres were all good and the correct factory bridgestones, Alignment had been recently done, hmm not good
Ok maybe its me, I shouldnt expect to be able to slide a car as its not really what I should be doing ( I just like to now and then!)
So drove it on my day off on a dry country road,
no no no.....
No feedback, no steering feel, Hard work, Stuttering in traffic (some common fault they all do that sir) what a massive disappointment.
Put a different exhaust on it to try and liven up proceedings but all that did was create an ear splitting drone in the cabin that really was not nice at all so ended back with standard exhaust.
Overall the car on paper had all the recipe I was looking for in a car and on face value seemed the perfect choice for me.
Never has a car promised so much and delivered so little so needless to say I will NEVER have another.
To people who just want to cruise around the countryside putting there foot down now and then on a straight road its a great car....
To the driving enthusiasts of this site........
Look elsewhere for your thrills
(Sorry for the negativity but I really had to pipe up about it after reading this article!)
But I'm sure there are some mods out there to sort that oversteer out, as for the rest of the car I loved it, great seating position, gearbox was still one of the best I have ever used in a car, and the engine sounded epic for a 4 cylinder.
Edited by BBS-LM on Friday 22 February 12:12
Bonefish Blues said:
I'm in the Petrolhead 888 camp, I'm afraid. So wanted to like it but just couldn't.
Did however love the interior and most of all the gearchange, which remains by a country mile the best I've ever driven.
same here, bloomin' love the idea of the car but it just didn't impress. think i'd had my mk3 mr2 spyder for about 2 years & could get that car to do just about anything i wanted the handling was so good but i just couldn't make the s2000 work.Did however love the interior and most of all the gearchange, which remains by a country mile the best I've ever driven.
ended up buying a 350z instead, nice car but not scalpel sharp like i expected to s2000 to be.
that might be half the problem, you kind of "expect" the honda to be amazing but it just falls a little bit short.
omgus said:
StottyZr said:
I would love to own an S2000, the only issue being the insurance premiums rival that of a Ferrari 360.
If the opportunity for a company insurance policy arose I would add one of these to it in a heartbeat.
If the opportunity for a company insurance policy arose I would add one of these to it in a heartbeat.
I found it to be very cheap on insurance quotes over the last few days, less than a 3.0 Z4 and 2/3s that of a boxster.
braddo said:
2hondadave said:
Motorways are not its preferred environment however as it is pretty noisy and not very relaxing for a long stretch (even with a hardtop on).
Roughly what revs would one be doing at motorway speeds?It's not so much the revs that are the issue though. There's a lot of wind noise too. It transmits road noise into the cabin (concrete roads are a nightmare for example). You can hear water in the rear wheel arches when it rains... You also have to concentrate properly ALL the time, unlike in your run of the mill cruiser or shopping trolley. Partly because the steering is so quick if you lose concentration you'll be in the other lane sharpish!
As I said, think of it like a 4 wheeled motorbike and you won't go far wrong
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