RE: Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG previewed

[pilchardthecat]

The hatch is getting my money in the autumn.

[Glosphil]

theJT said:

I like the idea of CLA. I like the look of it, I like the general "small fast luxury saloon" of it... but... isn't that what the C class is for?

So we now have an A class, which is smaller than a C class, which is smaller than an E class which is smaller than an S class... how f**king huge must the S class have gotten if there's room for all those smaller ones under it?

Couldn't we just scale them all back down a bit?

Every new car has to be larger than the precious version so that the manufacturers can claim to offer more interior room than the last version. They damn well should 'cause they're bigger!

[Oddball RS]

theJT said:

I like the idea of CLA. I like the look of it, I like the general "small fast luxury saloon" of it... but... isn't that what the C class is for?

So we now have an A class, which is smaller than a C class, which is smaller than an E class which is smaller than an S class... how f**king huge must the S class have gotten if there's room for all those smaller ones under it?

Couldn't we just scale them all back down a bit?

I don't understand your point, its been like this for 10 years plus, its an A class with a boot ok?

[Dodgey_Rog]

I know someone thats driven the CLA AMG, he said its quite the machine. This was one of the two AMG protoypes.

[walsh]

360bhp from 2000cc eh? That's some going on the specific output front, what beats that in a road car, bar some nutter evo's..

[Hellbound]

The standard car is quite interesting. Don't think fwd is the way forward though, I guess it's 4-matic or nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_F1KpuQ-k&fea...

[EdM]

uninspired...something S-Type about it too...which was also uninspired...and probably better made..

[hondansx]

I like this. The problem with the C Class is that it is just another repmobile. The CLA allows the family man to have something that looks a bit sexy, without sacrificing the practicality by opting for the 2-door CLK.

Despite the PR talk though, i think it will be a challenge for Mercedes to make a real drivers car out of. I guess the A45 AMG reviews will give us an insight soon enough...

[bobberz]

Very intriguing! The CLA and A45 AMG models sound like a right hoot! Of course they won't be sold on my side of the pond.

Admittedly, I didn't know people are already talking about what games will be on the PS4. Is it really going to be released soon? My guess is it'll have loads of delays and cost a ridiculous amount of money. I think I'll keep my PS3 (and my Xbox) until the price halves itself a couple times, by which time all the bugs should be worked out. /offtopic

[Clivey]

StottyZr said:

benzpassion said:

Re. 'Haldex-based four wheel drive system', this is what Mercedes themselves say about the A45/CLA45 AMG's 4MATIC all-wheel drive system:

'A two-part propeller shaft transfers the power from the AMG 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbo engine to the rear axle. In the interests of favourable weight distribution, an electrohydraulically controlled multi-disc clutch is integrated with the rear axle differential. The multi-disc clutch immediately detects slip at the front axle. A hydraulic pump instantaneously presses the discs together and channels the engine torque to the rear wheels as necessary. All this takes place virtually without the driver noticing. To enable particularly fast response, the pump is always active and does not require to be started up each time it is needed, such as is customary with other systems. Power distribution is fully variable: in normal driving, the A 45 AMG uses front-wheel drive in the interests of optimum efficiency. When the driving dynamics so require, the variable AMG 4MATIC all-wheel drive splits the torque between front and rear axle up to a ratio of 50 : 50 percent. The variables influencing the power distribution ratio are vehicle speed, lateral and longitudinal acceleration, steering angle, speed difference between the individual wheels, selected gear and accelerator position.'

So its a haldex system but they claim its faster at redirecting power than the Audi system?

Yes...and despite the claims that it's a proactive rather than reactive system, it's not anywhere near as good as a proper setup like the ones Mitsubishi and Subaru use. Whereas their systems are always ready to deal with loss of traction immediately, Haldex by default is like a pig following it's nose whilst sniffing for truffles and has to mess about shuffling power when slip is detected. Therefore IMO Mercedes have fallen at the first hurdle with this one...I just hope the engine has some character, rather than being like most other blown 4-cylinder appliances (which get the job done but feel uninspiring).

I also agree with the posters that questioned the point in an A-class saloon. Yes; the C-class is supposed to be the Mercedes small saloon, and now they've shot themselves in the foot - because in a decade's time, when the 2023 A-class is the size of a Monster truck, they'll have to make a Smart ForFour saloon to slide underneath it in the model range.

Edited by Clivey on Sunday 24th February 21:25

[Ali_T]

walsh said:

360bhp from 2000cc eh? That's some going on the specific output front, what beats that in a road car, bar some nutter evo's..

The way AMG are going on about it, it's a world first and I've heard them say it's the highest specific output on a 2 litre 4 pot of all time. Er.....no . That honour still goes to the X FQ400, which was actually 405bhp.

Edited by Ali_T on Sunday 24th February 21:18

[Oddball RS]

Ali_T said:

walsh said:

360bhp from 2000cc eh? That's some going on the specific output front, what beats that in a road car, bar some nutter evo's..

The way AMG are going on about it, it's a world first and I've heard them say it's the highest specific output on a 2 litre 4 pot of all time. Er.....no . That honour still goes to the X FQ400, which was actually 405bhp.

Edited by Ali_T on Sunday 24th February 21:18

Again for those who missed it the first time, was it 'manufactured' in that state?

[Oddball RS]

Clivey said:

StottyZr said:

benzpassion said:

Re. 'Haldex-based four wheel drive system', this is what Mercedes themselves say about the A45/CLA45 AMG's 4MATIC all-wheel drive system:

'A two-part propeller shaft transfers the power from the AMG 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbo engine to the rear axle. In the interests of favourable weight distribution, an electrohydraulically controlled multi-disc clutch is integrated with the rear axle differential. The multi-disc clutch immediately detects slip at the front axle. A hydraulic pump instantaneously presses the discs together and channels the engine torque to the rear wheels as necessary. All this takes place virtually without the driver noticing. To enable particularly fast response, the pump is always active and does not require to be started up each time it is needed, such as is customary with other systems. Power distribution is fully variable: in normal driving, the A 45 AMG uses front-wheel drive in the interests of optimum efficiency. When the driving dynamics so require, the variable AMG 4MATIC all-wheel drive splits the torque between front and rear axle up to a ratio of 50 : 50 percent. The variables influencing the power distribution ratio are vehicle speed, lateral and longitudinal acceleration, steering angle, speed difference between the individual wheels, selected gear and accelerator position.'

So its a haldex system but they claim its faster at redirecting power than the Audi system?

Yes...and despite the claims that it's a proactive rather than reactive system, it's not anywhere near as good as a proper setup like the ones Mitsubishi and Subaru use. Whereas their systems are always ready to deal with loss of traction immediately, Haldex by default is like a pig following it's nose whilst sniffing for truffles and has to mess about shuffling power when slip is detected. Therefore IMO Mercedes have fallen at the first hurdle with this one...I just hope the engine has some character, rather than being like most other blown 4-cylinder appliances (which get the job done but feel uninspiring).

I also agree with the posters that questioned the point in an A-class saloon. Yes; the C-class is supposed to be the Mercedes small saloon, and now they've shot themselves in the foot - because in a decade's time, when the 2023 A-class is the size of a Monster truck, they'll have to make a Smart ForFour saloon to slide underneath it in the model range.

Edited by Clivey on Sunday 24th February 21:25

Again i dont understand the reference to the A class saloon / C class comment, a C lass is bigger than an A Class, whether they have boots, hatches or god knows what on their arse alters only their length not their model size, ie space inside etc. All cars company products of all sizes are growing therefore the point is mute right or wrong.

[Colvette]

I'm the Game Director on the game in question, and prior to this, I was the Chief Game Designer on GRID 2.

The game is awesome.

Edited by Colvette on Monday 25th February 08:51

[Donkey62]

Mitsubishi and Subaru are both full time AWD systems are thirsty because of it but after owning Legacy's and Impreza and Evo 4, I rather have modern Haldex system in today's world its far more intelligent and able in slippery condition. In mud and snow the full time AWD also causes the wheel which has traction to loose it sure EVO system was better in managing it but again not as good as modern Haldex system in getting unstuck and going up down very steep slippery hills in any weather without having WRC levels of momentum.

[EdT]

Colvette said:

I'm the Game Director on the game in question, and prior to this, I was the Chief Game Designer on GRID 2.

The game is awesome.

Edited by Colvette on Monday 25th February 08:51

so... PS4 any good?

[Raramuri]

Disappointing, I really like the new A-Class but with this, as others have said, I think they could be pushing for a niche that isn't there.

From that main image in the article it looks like the unwanted love child of an S-type and an Aldi TT.

[n4aat]

Looks like its melting.

[scherzkeks]

StottyZr said:

So its a haldex system but they claim its faster at redirecting power than the Audi system?

Sounds like marketing nonsense. The bit about the pump being on full-time means the car is running Haldex 4, which is what the A3/S3/RS§ 8P and all the latest gen. TTs use.

It will probably drive like the S3 and TTS in terms of dynamics, or at least very close, since it won't have the weight on the nose that the small RS cars have with the 5-cylinder. In other words, it should handle very well, but lack the 10/10ths adjustability/feel of a rear-biased setup.

Edited by scherzkeks on Thursday 28th February 16:30

[scherzkeks]

Clivey said:

Yes...and despite the claims that it's a proactive rather than reactive system, it's not anywhere near as good as a proper setup like the ones Mitsubishi and Subaru use. Whereas their systems are always ready to deal with loss of traction immediately, Haldex by default is like a pig following it's nose whilst sniffing for truffles and has to mess about shuffling power when slip is detected. Therefore IMO Mercedes have fallen at the first hurdle with this one...I just hope the engine has some character, rather than being like most other blown 4-cylinder appliances (which get the job done but feel uninspiring).

Edited by Clivey on Sunday 24th February 21:25

You don't understand Haldex 4. It is a proactive system. In the normal Audi range, the torque bias is set to 85/15(is supposedly more rear biased in S/RS models). Since the 4th gen. system got a separately driven electronic pump, there is no wait for pressure to build for clutch engagement. Power is transferred instantly as the clutch pack is always engaged to some degree (specced by manf.). Also, power is transferred based on multiple factors, including gas pedal engagement, steering angle, axle slip, and more. In its driving characteristics, it is very similar to the old 50/50 Torsen system and imparts a good neutral feel. The system's only real Achilles heel for performance driving is that it cannot send more than 50% of torque to the rear unless in an unlikely situation such as where the fronts have almost no traction vs. the rear. Cars like the TTRS have proven how well the system works in a front-bias app. I see no reason why the A45 would not drive very, very well, so long as the suspension does not let it down.