2 stroke oil in diesel? Really??!
Discussion
I know a few guys that do it, a Mondeo ST diesel, a passat with PD engine and I do it with my 320D - I honestly believe its better, much smoother on idle, cold start is much better and a definite mpg improvement.
I used to buy 2 stroke from wilko as it was £3 a bottle and I'd use half that per tank, however amazon is the future......
I used to buy 2 stroke from wilko as it was £3 a bottle and I'd use half that per tank, however amazon is the future......
I don't see what benefit this would add over the standard 5-7% biodiesel in pump diesel? Biodiesel adds extreme lubricity to the fuel and even at 1% dilution was shown in tests by Mercedes to have a massively positive effect on the injection system and life of the engine. What does a little squirt of two stroke add except potentially straining the tolerances of modern IPs due to increased viscosity?
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. Is a 1 to 3 mpg difference over a tank of fuel really statistically significant? I would suggest not.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. Is a 1 to 3 mpg difference over a tank of fuel really statistically significant? I would suggest not.
DervHead said:
I don't see what benefit this would add over the standard 5-7% biodiesel in pump diesel? Biodiesel adds extreme lubricity to the fuel and even at 1% dilution was shown in tests by Mercedes to have a massively positive effect on the injection system and life of the engine. What does a little squirt of two stroke add except potentially straining the tolerances of modern IPs due to increased viscosity?
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. Is a 1 to 3 mpg difference over a tank of fuel really statistically significant? I would suggest not.
I personally try this for increased mileage, although it's an added bonus.I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. Is a 1 to 3 mpg difference over a tank of fuel really statistically significant? I would suggest not.
I've tried this in my bmw 520d, it's does have more pulling power, it also sits happier in high gears, but mostly I've found it much much quieter and smoother, both in idle, and at motorway speeds.
I also put it in my wife's 1.6 focus ... So much quieter, I thought I'd stalled it!
DervHead said:
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense. Is a 1 to 3 mpg difference over a tank of fuel really statistically significant? I would suggest not.
It never makes sense to me when people say their cars are dramatically different with different brands of diesel.I generally do long steady journeys in my car (Merc C270CDi) and pass a Sainsburys on the way home so usually fill up there with their City Diesel (I think it was one of the first to add bio-diesel, but they all have to now) and I seem to get at least equal, if not the best, trip computer MPG from that. I sometimes use random other branded fuel and don't detect any difference in noise or performance.
Yet you read plenty on various forums from people who buy an odd tankful of Sainsbury's diesel and their car is so awful it sounds barely driveable.
Sheepshanks said:
It never makes sense to me when people say their cars are dramatically different with different brands of diesel.
I generally do long steady journeys in my car (Merc C270CDi) and pass a Sainsburys on the way home so usually fill up there with their City Diesel (I think it was one of the first to add bio-diesel, but they all have to now) and I seem to get at least equal, if not the best, trip computer MPG from that. I sometimes use random other branded fuel and don't detect any difference in noise or performance.
Yet you read plenty on various forums from people who buy an odd tankful of Sainsbury's diesel and their car is so awful it sounds barely driveable.
To be fair, I have seen both sides of this. Older (IDI or PD type) engines can certainly be more 'fussy' and react differently to various fuels. More modern CR engines seem much less bothered. For example on my Skoda Superb 1.9 PD there was a noticeable difference in urgency, pull and throttle required for given power across different fuels. It loved Shell and Texaco but smoked and sounded like nails on Tesco and Asda. I generally do long steady journeys in my car (Merc C270CDi) and pass a Sainsburys on the way home so usually fill up there with their City Diesel (I think it was one of the first to add bio-diesel, but they all have to now) and I seem to get at least equal, if not the best, trip computer MPG from that. I sometimes use random other branded fuel and don't detect any difference in noise or performance.
Yet you read plenty on various forums from people who buy an odd tankful of Sainsbury's diesel and their car is so awful it sounds barely driveable.
Don't forget unlike petrol, diesel has a wide variance in spec and the difference between two forecourt diesel fuels can be as much as 10 cetane numbers and a large percentage difference in water content etc. Not only that but until the legal requirement for bio content rose recently some forecourts contained the legal minimum while others had more (eg 3% v 7%). Given that bio has a lower calorific density it makes sense that there would be variance in 'feel' between fuels to those who pay attention and/or have a more sensitive engine.
My new CR engine doesn't seem to care half as much and drives the same regardless of where I fill up. But I digress.
DrDoofenshmirtz said:
Brilliant.
Go back to read only mode, eigh?
Dr, I don't understand your comment. Go back to read only mode, eigh?
FYI there are several different standards for 2 stroke oil.
There is oil suitable for air cooled engines such as chainsaws etc.
There is TCW3 standard for water cooled engineer.
There is also synthetic oil for direct injection water cooled engines - such as Optimax or etec outboard motors, which is what I have.
I think the difference is ash content and the expected temperatures of operation. (Something to do with piston ring sealing)
Using oil suitable for air cooled engines in a water cooled outboard invites problems.
I wonder if this has any bearing on using it in a Diesel engine.
D
buzzer said:
it sure can.... the Catalytic converter LOVES it....
THIS! I can't believe people are recommending as much as a 50:1 mix in their tanks! My old Trabi takes a 40:1 mix, and on mineral oil it smokes like a chimneystack from cold. The test centre won't even put the probe on to test emissions, as it'll damage it. Even with the latest synthentic 2T oil, it's got much higher particulate emissions. I don't think the high compression and combustion temps of a diesel engine are going to burn it all off.
100ml per tank, I can understand. I've heard a lot of rotary fans use that much, in case of a loss of oil feed.
Searider said:
Dr, I don't understand your comment.
FYI there are several different standards for 2 stroke oil.
There is oil suitable for air cooled engines such as chainsaws etc.
There is TCW3 standard for water cooled engineer.
There is also synthetic oil for direct injection water cooled engines - such as Optimax or etec outboard motors, which is what I have.
I think the difference is ash content and the expected temperatures of operation. (Something to do with piston ring sealing)
Using oil suitable for air cooled engines in a water cooled outboard invites problems.
I wonder if this has any bearing on using it in a Diesel engine.
D
Those standards will be for applications where the oil is the only form of engine lubrication, actual 2 stroke engines. In diesel 4 stroke applications, as is being discussed here, the 2 stroke oil is only being used as an adjunct. Actual lubrication properties are not as specific or detrimental to the engine therefore 2 stroke specifications/criteria (piston ring sealing and cylinder lubrication etc) do not apply.FYI there are several different standards for 2 stroke oil.
There is oil suitable for air cooled engines such as chainsaws etc.
There is TCW3 standard for water cooled engineer.
There is also synthetic oil for direct injection water cooled engines - such as Optimax or etec outboard motors, which is what I have.
I think the difference is ash content and the expected temperatures of operation. (Something to do with piston ring sealing)
Using oil suitable for air cooled engines in a water cooled outboard invites problems.
I wonder if this has any bearing on using it in a Diesel engine.
D
Tried 2-stroke in my Leon TDI (PD engine) and could not detect any difference at all, plus 2-stroke oil isn't particularly cheap from Halfrauds, so have since resorted to uncut diesel.
Pretty similar to my previous experiences with other varieties of snake oil such as Slick 50, Millers diesel power and various STP fuel additives I've tried in different cars out of boredom in the past.
Meh
Pretty similar to my previous experiences with other varieties of snake oil such as Slick 50, Millers diesel power and various STP fuel additives I've tried in different cars out of boredom in the past.
Meh
BFG TERRANO said:
GC8 said:
And it is hardly going t0 dye the fuel red. What a silly suggestion.
You would be surprised how strong Stihl two strokes red dye is. It will present no issue at all if you are stopped by the Revenue Men, but if it really can add a noticeable red tinge to a tankful of DERV then it may cause an issue with over-zealous and under-informed police officers if they decide to make a half-arsed roadside check (getting common now, I believe).
GC8 said:
I will accept that, but I will add that it will be nothing like red chemical marker where drops will dye huge storage tanks. Its a little like the tracer dye that the NRA use to mark rivers.
It will present no issue at all if you are stopped by the Revenue Men, but if it really can add a noticeable red tinge to a tankful of DERV then it may cause an issue with over-zealous and under-informed police officers if they decide to make a half-arsed roadside check (getting common now, I believe).
Any non-vegetable based alternative road fuel is subject to tax (the veggie power being eligible for a 2,500 litre pa exemption for personal use). As such I'd imagine HMRC would be just as interested in the evasion of duty on 2 stroke as they are on other forms of road fuel. True the amounts are trifling in the grand scheme of things - a few tens of pence every four fill ups for 250ml 2 stroke per tank - but evasion is evasion and they tend to come down pretty hard vis a vis penalties. Just a thought...It will present no issue at all if you are stopped by the Revenue Men, but if it really can add a noticeable red tinge to a tankful of DERV then it may cause an issue with over-zealous and under-informed police officers if they decide to make a half-arsed roadside check (getting common now, I believe).
DervHead said:
GC8 said:
I will accept that, but I will add that it will be nothing like red chemical marker where drops will dye huge storage tanks. Its a little like the tracer dye that the NRA use to mark rivers.
It will present no issue at all if you are stopped by the Revenue Men, but if it really can add a noticeable red tinge to a tankful of DERV then it may cause an issue with over-zealous and under-informed police officers if they decide to make a half-arsed roadside check (getting common now, I believe).
Any non-vegetable based alternative road fuel is subject to tax (the veggie power being eligible for a 2,500 litre pa exemption for personal use). As such I'd imagine HMRC would be just as interested in the evasion of duty on 2 stroke as they are on other forms of road fuel. True the amounts are trifling in the grand scheme of things - a few tens of pence every four fill ups for 250ml 2 stroke per tank - but evasion is evasion and they tend to come down pretty hard vis a vis penalties. Just a thought...It will present no issue at all if you are stopped by the Revenue Men, but if it really can add a noticeable red tinge to a tankful of DERV then it may cause an issue with over-zealous and under-informed police officers if they decide to make a half-arsed roadside check (getting common now, I believe).
2 stroke is intended as a fuel additive, they going to be chasing reddex next ?
Nigel Worc's said:
How so ?
2 stroke is intended as a fuel additive, they going to be chasing reddex next ?
Good point. I was going by the fact that all hydrocarbon oils are listed in various weights as eligible for duty by HMRC when used as part of the fuel in a road going vehicle. I might email them to ask; you've gotten me curious now.2 stroke is intended as a fuel additive, they going to be chasing reddex next ?
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