RE: Evoque introduces first nine-speed 'box

[Sten J]

Dont have an issue with it myself, whats next though.. double figures?!

Does make me wonder if this will be the model to avoid in 10 years time when buying a used example because of the scary repair costs and questionable reliability. I very nearly bought a VAG DSG until I did some homework...

[Mr2Mike]

ukmike2000 said:

10 points for the box.

Only 1 point for the Evoque.

[Beefmeister]

I love Jalopnik's headline for this story: Tranny Porn (no, not that kind)

[MonkeySpanker]

benzpassion said:

ALL WORK & NO PLAY MAKES JACK A DULL BOY, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR, I HATE JLR....................................

Edited by benzpassion on Wednesday 27th February 11:57

[iSore]

CraigyMc said:

OK, I'll bite. What did he say wrong?

Audi, BMW and Merc all use the ZF 8HP.

C

He implied that ZF autoboxes were great because Audi and BMW use them. They are great, until they go wrong.
Afaik, Mercedes still make their own auto transmissions, but could well be wrong.

[CJE]

benzpassion said:

Alex Robbins said:

EVOQUE INTRODUCES FIRST NINE-SPEED 'BOX

Are you/JLR's press people really claiming that the Evoque will be the first vehicle worldwide to use ZF's new 9-speed gearbox?

Have you/they not heard of the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee?

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/22/2014-jeep-chero...

Do you not know that Chrysler/Jeep/Fiat Group have been working with ZF too, on the first usage of ZF's new 9-speed for FWD/All-wheel drive installation?

Did you know that as well as the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee the 2013 Dodge Dart is slated to get the new ZF 9-speeder later this year too?

If you do know that, and know that the new Jeep Cherokee is expected to hit US showrooms in the Fall of this year, and that Land Rover will not get the 9-speed-fitted Evoque into showrooms until early to mid 2014 at the earliest, and that their claim to be the 'First' rests solely only on them showing a supposed 9-speed Evoque prototype at Geneva next week, why are you even deigning to run this ridiculous story?

To put it clearly, Jeep are/will be the 'First'.

Land Rover are doing their usual spoiler operation schtick, deceiving the gullible, abetted by compliant hacks.

Edited by benzpassion on Wednesday 27th February 11:57

Although launching in the same year I suspect the Evoque is first to production.

[CraigyMc]

CraigyMc said:

kambites said:

McWigglebum3rd said:

Maybe they should let F1 use a CVT

That would soon get us a decent CVT gearbox

I assume it's been tried and banned?

Williams got as far as a running CVT in '93 (they tested it at Pembrey of all places) but the FIA banned it and hardcoded gearboxes with between 4 and 7 gears into the regulations.

C

Found a video of it (download and then play if you are on a slow connection) - http://marvin.kset.org/~sepa/f1/cvt/Williams_FW15C...

[stuart-b]

dc2rr07 said:

Why would you change up i.e '3000 to 2000' and accelerate hard, or am I not reading it correct !

Ok - let me make it more simple for you.

In any gear change, a large "gap" in the revs means the extra inertia has to be dealt with by the drive chain somehow, either through the flywheel, or clutch - you can't just "lose" 1000 rpm's magically when changing in fractions of a second. Therefore, by introducing more gears and shorter ratios, they are in effect, reducing the strain on the whole set up.

Now that the gear change timing is so swift, it makes sense. There's no time for the engine inertia to be dissipated.

Like I said before, this is my guess, but coming from various manual cars with different set ups, changing very fast in a car that struggles to lose revs due to a large flywheel, is difficult! Changing gear slowly with a car running a silly flywheel is also very hard to do smoothly, you end up burning up the clutch all the time.

[Ozzie Osmond]

stuart-b said:

In any gear change, a large "gap" in the revs means the extra inertia has to be dealt with by the drive chain somehow, either through the flywheel, or clutch - you can't just "lose" 1000 rpm's magically when changing in fractions of a second. Therefore, by introducing more gears and shorter ratios, they are in effect, reducing the strain on the whole set up.

Now that the gear change timing is so swift, it makes sense. There's no time for the engine inertia to be dissipated.

Like I said before, this is my guess, but coming from various manual cars with different set ups, changing very fast in a car that struggles to lose revs due to a large flywheel, is difficult! Changing gear slowly with a car running a silly flywheel is also very hard to do smoothly, you end up burning up the clutch all the time.

Yes, and electronic torque management enables the gearbox to be built with very narrow tolerances. So people can chip their engines and destroy the "Swiss watch" internals of thir expensive transmissions!!

[stuart-b]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Yes, and electronic torque management enables the gearbox to be built with very narrow tolerances. So people can chip their engines and destroy the "Swiss watch" internals of thir expensive transmissions!!

Perhaps, but from what I was reading, I don't the gearboxes have become swiss watches. The 9HP48 can take 480nm or torque, and I'm sure it can be built to take more. Quite an engineering masterpiece!

[Digga]

Auto Ewoks have not proved that frugal. Mrs Digga's is mid 30's on her commute, as against about low 40's in her previous 320d auto and others on PH report similarly poor figures. (Before I get flamed, I don't expect a softroader to match a 2wd estate, but equally, if a full-fat Range Rover or Disco 4 can get more than 30mpg, then something's not quite right.)

I wonder if the new 'box is, in part, an attempt to fix this?

[CraigyMc]

stuart-b said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

Yes, and electronic torque management enables the gearbox to be built with very narrow tolerances. So people can chip their engines and destroy the "Swiss watch" internals of thir expensive transmissions!!

Perhaps, but from what I was reading, I don't the gearboxes have become swiss watches. The 9HP48 can take 480nm or torque, and I'm sure it can be built to take more. Quite an engineering masterpiece!

At the moment, ZF are marketing two variants of the 9HP - they differ in weight and torque rating.

• 9HP28 (280Nm) 76Kg inc. oil
• 9HP48 (480Nm) 86Kg inc. oil

If you need a stronger box, they also make these 8-speed boxes:

• 8HP45 (450Nm) 77Kg inc. oil
• 8HP70 (700Nm) 87Kg inc. oil
• 8HP90 (900Nm) 95Kg inc. oil

ref.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/img_1/corporate/prod...
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/corporat...

C

[stuart-b]

CraigyMc said:

At the moment, ZF are marketing two variants of the 9HP - they differ in weight and torque rating.

• 9HP28 (280Nm) 76Kg inc. oil
• 9HP48 (480Nm) 86Kg inc. oil

If you need a stronger box, they also make these 8-speed boxes:

• 8HP45 (450Nm) 77Kg inc. oil
• 8HP70 (700Nm) 87Kg inc. oil
• 8HP90 (900Nm) 95Kg inc. oil

ref.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/img_1/corporate/prod...
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/corporat...

C

Very nice

[CraigyMc]

stuart-b said:

Very nice

Ta.

I should probably have added that the 9HP is for transverse installations and the 8HP is for longditudinal installations..

C

[Matt UK]

fatboy b said:

wheedler said:

Just one more thing to go wrong imo.

You do realise that these boxes are ZF don't you? You know - the ones that Audi, BMW, Merc use.

But when sold as 'sealed for life', the ZF box is one of the likely candidates to write the car off many a barge before the rest of the car is ready...

[71tuscan]

I want an 11-gear version. Now.
With a twinair 2-pot and 4 turbos.
Recession White with auto-park system please
Oh, and also some geeky system to wake me once the bloody lump is in its parking spot.

[canucklehead]

hum.

the more ratios you add the closer it gets to a CVT. why not just fit a CVT and be done with it?

[CraigyMc]

canucklehead said:

hum.

the more ratios you add the closer it gets to a CVT. why not just fit a CVT and be done with it?

Weight, size, torque capacity, efficiency, cost...

[loudlashadjuster]

At the risk of providing troll nourishment, perhaps someone should inform ZF who their initial production customer for the 9HP actually is.

They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it is Land Rover...

http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/corporat...

[CraigyMc]

loudlashadjuster said:

At the risk of providing troll nourishment, perhaps someone should inform ZF who their initial production customer for the 9HP actually is.

They seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that it is Land Rover...

http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/document/corporat...

How would ZF know who they've been working with to develop the box?

Jeez. It's like people have "memories" or "think" around here.

Why can't we all just live in our own little made up realities?



C