RE: New Golf GTI: too little, too late?
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
How does being able to see into farmers' fields make a car go round corners faster?
I've taken a lot of long cross-country routes over the years and the ones I've least enjoyed have been behind the wheels of soft-roaders. There are MPVs out there that drive better than the vast majority of them. The only exceptions have been Land Rovers, but then again they're not 'soft', but rather massively capable everywhere.
If you can't figure out that being higher gives you better visibility than being lower, then I'm not going to try and explain it to you. I've taken a lot of long cross-country routes over the years and the ones I've least enjoyed have been behind the wheels of soft-roaders. There are MPVs out there that drive better than the vast majority of them. The only exceptions have been Land Rovers, but then again they're not 'soft', but rather massively capable everywhere.
And your examples make no sense. Land Rovers are lovely, but they are generally among the least competent at going cross country fast. They don't want you to do it. They would rather you sit back and enjoy the view. Others do the "going round corners faster " bit as you put it, rather better than Landies do..
Bitzer said:
jimjim150 said:
Yes but factor in the different position many people are in these days due to the economy problems, people aren't as rich as they once were in the UK.
Also the MKV and VI have terrible fuel economy.
No they don't.Also the MKV and VI have terrible fuel economy.
My MK5 averaged 34-35 in the 22k that I owned it for in 18 months. I don't consider that terrible.
Killboy said:
I know many will not agree with me, but bring back a proper 6 cylinder Golf R. A nice factory turbocharged or supercharged R32. Or take audi's RS 2.5T. I dont care if it costs the earth, I'd love it. I just dont want to go back to 4 cylinders - all the farting and burping and all has nothing on the lovely V6 sound.
I may be forced into a BMW soon
Im with this. The Golf is just boring, and bland. They all look the same; this model is too similar to the last, they're overpriced for what you get; they're not very quick any more.I may be forced into a BMW soon
I was a VW fan but no longer. I have an M135i on the way. Now compare what you get for your money with a GTI and the maths just dont add up in VW's favour. The looks of a 1er are contentious, but its definitely different.
toppstuff said:
GTI's could die off today with no car maker ever making any in the future, and the financial impact on the car companies would be negligible.
I'm not convinced. Look at the dire situation Honda find themselves in currently. They decided not to replace the Prelude, S2000 and NSX, and suddenly dropped the Type R brand whilst replacing the CRX with a crumby and slow hybrid. The result? They're sales have plummeted because they have absolutely no image. They've gone from the enthusiast's darling, with the knock on effect of generating plenty of motoring magazine column inches, and massive sales success, to being purveyors of automotive white goods, very little mention in the press and a massive sales slump. Performance cars don't sell in umbers. They never have and never will,but they generate interest and without them you're going down a very rocky slope.Stan 24v said:
Im with this. The Golf is just boring, and bland. They all look the same; this model is too similar to the last, they're overpriced for what you get; they're not very quick any more.
I was a VW fan but no longer. I have an M135i on the way. Now compare what you get for your money with a GTI and the maths just dont add up in VW's favour. The looks of a 1er are contentious, but its definitely different.
Their dealerships don't help either. Both the Edinburgh dealerships seem to specialise in ignoring customers and being condescending. Same with the BMW dealers who just practice the ignoring part (and denting customer car's doors in the car park, but that's an ongoing story) so the nice man at Merc is most likely to get the A45 AMG deposit, just because he spoke to me for a few minutes, when I replace the Evo.I was a VW fan but no longer. I have an M135i on the way. Now compare what you get for your money with a GTI and the maths just dont add up in VW's favour. The looks of a 1er are contentious, but its definitely different.
Ali_T said:
toppstuff said:
GTI's could die off today with no car maker ever making any in the future, and the financial impact on the car companies would be negligible.
I'm not convinced. Look at the dire situation Honda find themselves in currently. They decided not to replace the Prelude, S2000 and NSX, and suddenly dropped the Type R brand whilst replacing the CRX with a crumby and slow hybrid. The result? They're sales have plummeted because they have absolutely no image. They've gone from the enthusiast's darling, with the knock on effect of generating plenty of motoring magazine column inches, and massive sales success, to being purveyors of automotive white goods, very little mention in the press and a massive sales slump. Performance cars don't sell in umbers. They never have and never will,but they generate interest and without them you're going down a very rocky slope.Ali_T said:
toppstuff said:
GTI's could die off today with no car maker ever making any in the future, and the financial impact on the car companies would be negligible.
I'm not convinced. Look at the dire situation Honda find themselves in currently. They decided not to replace the Prelude, S2000 and NSX, and suddenly dropped the Type R brand whilst replacing the CRX with a crumby and slow hybrid. The result? They're sales have plummeted because they have absolutely no image. They've gone from the enthusiast's darling, with the knock on effect of generating plenty of motoring magazine column inches, and massive sales success, to being purveyors of automotive white goods, very little mention in the press and a massive sales slump. Performance cars don't sell in umbers. They never have and never will,but they generate interest and without them you're going down a very rocky slope.St John Smythe said:
Good post and Honda certainly is an example of what happens when you drop your performance range!
Not IMO. There is no correlation between Honda dropping their performance range and sales falling. None at all.Honda sales are under pressure because they are a part of the "squeezed middle" of car brands. Korean value brands are taking their market share and because of the historical strength of the Yen, Japan has not been able to compete on price. At the other end of things, Honda suffers from the popularity of German prestige brands. Honda, like so many , sits in the middle being squeezed.
Selling <4% of your output as Type R's to petrol heads won't change a thing. Devaluing the Yen by 20% will change everything.
Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to read all the posts here, but touching on what is being discussed on the first page, you could consider me as an example of the 'problem' (perhaps).
After owning six hot hatches in my twenties, I have (unfortunately?) got to the stage where I am thinking about settling down. This all means the horrors of sharing the car with the other half (!), 5 doors, big boot, good resale potential, decent economy and emissions (everything is a joint decision now and costs are shared). Big enough to take kids in a few years and on and on.
In other words, I am moving into the next phase of life and at this point in time, there is no space/money/requirement for a hot hatch. I am not saying I won't return to the market in the future, but certainly not for the foreseeable future (we only need one car at the moment).
Having said that, I am still considering whether she will notice the difference between a M135i and a 120d if I was to order the former even though our test drive is to be in the latter
Logic says that my place should be filled by someone else. Yes, it might. However, prices of the leading hot hatches have increased over the last decade (and yes, I do know what inflation is, but irrespective of that, the 'real' cost of them has also increased). Insurance has gone up too. Petrol has gone up. Add all of that together (and no doubt other factors) and you can perhaps see why it is harder for a 20 year old to take my place today.
After owning six hot hatches in my twenties, I have (unfortunately?) got to the stage where I am thinking about settling down. This all means the horrors of sharing the car with the other half (!), 5 doors, big boot, good resale potential, decent economy and emissions (everything is a joint decision now and costs are shared). Big enough to take kids in a few years and on and on.
In other words, I am moving into the next phase of life and at this point in time, there is no space/money/requirement for a hot hatch. I am not saying I won't return to the market in the future, but certainly not for the foreseeable future (we only need one car at the moment).
Having said that, I am still considering whether she will notice the difference between a M135i and a 120d if I was to order the former even though our test drive is to be in the latter
Logic says that my place should be filled by someone else. Yes, it might. However, prices of the leading hot hatches have increased over the last decade (and yes, I do know what inflation is, but irrespective of that, the 'real' cost of them has also increased). Insurance has gone up too. Petrol has gone up. Add all of that together (and no doubt other factors) and you can perhaps see why it is harder for a 20 year old to take my place today.
Probably already mentioned but what killed the GTi is the reccession. The MK6 arrived just as it was all really kicking off. People are picking the diesel stuff and 1.4 Turbos these days. The fact the GTi costs £6k more than 2007 is quite rightly just too much for some people to stomach.
nixon1 said:
folos said:
That said the R does little for me, if a new one had a 300hp V6 then id have the perfect replacement for my mk5 r32 :-)
I had the same problem moving from my (leased R32). Tried a E46 330ci, missed the Golf. Got an Audi S4, love the power but it is a bit big/old man 
... miss the Golf! I remember the excitement of the R being delivered and no doubt its the same for any GTI or ED30 owners. The butterflies feeling is really important. The best bit about the GTI is to the wife it looks like a regular Golf, yet to your mates its a racy mistress !
I must say, the recent generations (post-mk3) of Golf GTIs have probably generated more negative bias on anonymous internet forums than any other car I can think of. Yet, in spite of this, they are still inherently successful, highly desirable, and well-reviewed.
Some of the crap that has been written about these cars makes it sound like they were designed and built by the same guys who were behind the Skoda Rapide.
In summary, internet people love to knock the establishment. Internet people also like to be seen to be 'egdy', and to have an opinion that flies in the face of the 'mainstream'.
The truth is that they are well-built cars that people love to own and drive - they are equally coveted by young, old and families. While they may not be the last word in B-Road blasting (that title is probably heading the way of the Megane and Focus ST), I would suggest that they remain the most desirable mass market hot hatchback.
Some of the crap that has been written about these cars makes it sound like they were designed and built by the same guys who were behind the Skoda Rapide.
In summary, internet people love to knock the establishment. Internet people also like to be seen to be 'egdy', and to have an opinion that flies in the face of the 'mainstream'.
The truth is that they are well-built cars that people love to own and drive - they are equally coveted by young, old and families. While they may not be the last word in B-Road blasting (that title is probably heading the way of the Megane and Focus ST), I would suggest that they remain the most desirable mass market hot hatchback.
Edited by Dave200 on Monday 4th March 11:07
GTI is just a marketing message, hence why the 115bhp engine MK4 sold well, it provided the GTi name people wanted with all the comfort and toys, wrapped in a nice status symbol VW body.
I have no doubt the new golf will be a good car, I will wait and see if people get 47mpg. I doubt any of the modern ones will be thought of like the Mk1 GTI, look how big a recent golf is next to a MK1, they are huge.
I have no doubt the new golf will be a good car, I will wait and see if people get 47mpg. I doubt any of the modern ones will be thought of like the Mk1 GTI, look how big a recent golf is next to a MK1, they are huge.
Bitzer said:
Kawasicki said:
As others have mentioned, where's the Tiguan GTI? Way more practical than the Golf, bigger boot, etc.
And a Kuga GTI? What about a Honda CRV GTI?The VAG 2.5T engine would be a good candidate for something like that. Lets say tuned to around 300bhp? Combined with a Haldex 4WD drive system and standard fit DSG gearbox.
Oh wait, it has been done!
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