RE: PH Investigates: black box insurance
Discussion
poing said:
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If it works out I can see it becoming law that new drivers have to use these for the first 3 years or so as a way of controlling them. They are already talking about new driver restrictions with no passengers, driving at certain times etc so this is the next natural step.
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I do hope not, all the 17 year olds will have to drive like they are nuns until they turn 21 when they can take it out speed up and crash ( if you Bealive all 17 year olds have a crash) and die in a firey pit of hell. So the death rates of under 21s will go down but over. 21 will most certainly rise cause they still have no expirance of speed or how a car handles on the limit.If it works out I can see it becoming law that new drivers have to use these for the first 3 years or so as a way of controlling them. They are already talking about new driver restrictions with no passengers, driving at certain times etc so this is the next natural step.
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Stupid idea I guarantee you would end up spending more in the long run than buying a policy without a black box. And if you did crash they would no doubt day oh sorry sir your not covered because you were driving at 10:46 am on a Tuesday in June with slight drizzle and the box doesn't like drizzle
okie592 said:
21 will most certainly rise cause they still have no expirance of speed or how a car handles on the limit.
I would imagine that the important difference between 17 and 21 is not so much experience of speed and limit handling as simply being more intellectually and emotionally mature.What will happen is that it policy prices for black box owners will rise up to where they are anyway as the emphasis changes from 'incentive' to 'compulsory'. Anyone without a box will be penalised and pay more. There is only one reason the insurance companies are doing this - to make/ save money. Make money on penalising drivers with no box, and not paying out to drivers with a black box because their driving doesn't fit into the safe parameters decided by - you guessed it - the insurance company.
The other thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the cost of installation. This article on moneywise:
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/insurance/car-insurance... under the heading 'should I consider installing a black box' quotes an average fitting cost of £200, this is built into the first years premium, which if you're already paying over £1K won't notice, but good drivers on lower premiums will notice. The article also says there is a charge for removal or transfer to a new car.
http://www.moneywise.co.uk/insurance/car-insurance... under the heading 'should I consider installing a black box' quotes an average fitting cost of £200, this is built into the first years premium, which if you're already paying over £1K won't notice, but good drivers on lower premiums will notice. The article also says there is a charge for removal or transfer to a new car.
otolith said:
I would imagine that the important difference between 17 and 21 is not so much experience of speed and limit handling as simply being more intellectually and emotionally mature.
Precisely. Research has generally shown that new driver accident rates are proportionate with age; the younger the age group, the higher the accident rate.Attitude is far more important than car control skills when approaching the question of risk.
Not in favor of black box, however, just playing devils advocate, would insurance company save money by being able to remove bogus, and whiplash claims etc, and paying out on those 'I hit a patch of oil claims - when they were clearly driving well beyond the road conditions, and what everyone else was doing/does on that stretch of road
there are arrow markings, road signage showing bend, everyone else slows by x% B4 said corner, you didn't, they stay on the road, you didn't.....
I think in reality as many have said, young drivers will save, and will gain maturity in driving whilst learning, then once black box isn't cost effective by either party it will be removed, until manufacturers start fitting trackers etc as standard, like most commercial vehicles already have, to keep tabs on vehicles and keep insurance down
What about like many companies, a driving assesment for any driver at fault in an accident/claim
there are arrow markings, road signage showing bend, everyone else slows by x% B4 said corner, you didn't, they stay on the road, you didn't.....
I think in reality as many have said, young drivers will save, and will gain maturity in driving whilst learning, then once black box isn't cost effective by either party it will be removed, until manufacturers start fitting trackers etc as standard, like most commercial vehicles already have, to keep tabs on vehicles and keep insurance down
What about like many companies, a driving assesment for any driver at fault in an accident/claim
10 Pence Short said:
otolith said:
I would imagine that the important difference between 17 and 21 is not so much experience of speed and limit handling as simply being more intellectually and emotionally mature.
Precisely. Research has generally shown that new driver accident rates are proportionate with age; the younger the age group, the higher the accident rate.Attitude is far more important than car control skills when approaching the question of risk.
The skew is also larger in both younger and older drivers. Which is why telematics works. You can use it to differentially price "good" drivers and "bad" drivers. It doesn't really matter what you class as good and bad, what matter is how you can tie behaviour to likely claims cost.
Middle aged drivers tend to be more homogeneous, and we already know a lot about their accident history due to NCD etc, so can price based on those factors instead of a black box.
Spoke to an acturist at the weekend and she said that it will more than likely be the norm at some point. and we realized upon the point like the scameras today it cannot judge driving situation unlike a policeman would of beforehand. And speaking of police the insurers aren't allowed to give details to the police as its also in they're best interest to get you to renew. Also these black boxes have the ability to imobilize a car between certain times (is that not a dangerous thing if you need your car in an emergency say). and if these get fitted to a sports car as some have said what might be driving normally for a say a turbocharged car arriving on boost will be deemed as aggressive acceleration likewise if the car is fitted with powerful four pot brakes it will be deemed as harsh braking even though as we all know most performance cars are actually safer in the right hands as they are more controllable, brake better and are safer for overtaking than your typical car. which again how can a black box judge an overtaking maneuver, surely this will make the ever disapearing skill go forever? how does an accelormeter define what is safe with the mass of driver and car combinations out there?
But how long will it be before the police can easily access this data. She also mentioned that it wont necessarily improve accuracy with respect to knock for knock claims as apparently some insurers allready deliberately crash cars to get data from that to try and reduce the unjustified whiplash claims. So if these black boxes know whether a whiplash claim is justifiable hows that going to affect them selling the details of an accident off to claims companies?
But how long will it be before the police can easily access this data. She also mentioned that it wont necessarily improve accuracy with respect to knock for knock claims as apparently some insurers allready deliberately crash cars to get data from that to try and reduce the unjustified whiplash claims. So if these black boxes know whether a whiplash claim is justifiable hows that going to affect them selling the details of an accident off to claims companies?
e8_pack said:
How will this affect the automotive industry though if we all had to have black boxes? There would be absolutely no point in sports cars which rules out anything British. We might as well all buy Vauxhall Isignia's and be done with it.
Implying people buy Jags/Astons for performance over prestige.Leebo310 said:
y2blade said:
+1 for having this on all Company cars/vans...the majority of w
kers I see on the road are clearly in company vehicles.It would be these drivers that would end up with their bonuses linked to their "safety" scores, and therefore erode their instinctive reflex to emergency brake when a child ran out into the road.
mat205125 said:
... and which part of the black box telemetry will prevent these vehicles forcing lane changes where there isn't a gap, or tailgating inches from the car in front.
The detection of a lack of smoothness in the driving - too fast and too close and cutting people up isn't consistent with well planned, smooth driving.Looks like the big guns are getting behind this.
Just a matter of time I feel.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/907909e4-be3c-11e3-961f-...
Just a matter of time I feel.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/907909e4-be3c-11e3-961f-...
bristolracer said:
Looks like the big guns are getting behind this.
Just a matter of time I feel.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/907909e4-be3c-11e3-961f-...
now that's fJust a matter of time I feel.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/907909e4-be3c-11e3-961f-...
king depressing 
looks like Martin Winterkorn, chief exec of VW agrees. He said that the car of the future risked becoming a “data monster”.
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