RE: PH Investigates: black box insurance
Discussion
Im sure these black boxes won't be used to monitor the events before a crash and therefore apportion blame also.
'But sir your 130mph terminal speed followed by the 150ft lock up might have had something to do with the accident, insurance invalid, sorry'.
I fear that the boxes will render fast cars pointless as you will never be able to use the performance. May aswell drive a 1 litre Cinquecento just to rag the nuts off it.
'But sir your 130mph terminal speed followed by the 150ft lock up might have had something to do with the accident, insurance invalid, sorry'.
I fear that the boxes will render fast cars pointless as you will never be able to use the performance. May aswell drive a 1 litre Cinquecento just to rag the nuts off it.
A few points spring to mind:
If a black box is installed, at the end of the insurance period and the owner then switches to a conventional policy I assume the box is removed. If it's not it would presumably then continue to transmit data to the previous insurer.
Following that scenario, how about buying a 2nd hand car with one of these boxes left in. I suspect it may be rather moot, but it depends on scope creep of the device...
Also, with multiple insurers offering black boxes it's probably too much to think that they'll all use the same ones or that they'll be compatible. So switching from one black box provider to another will no doubt end up in 1, if not 2, trips to the fitters to get the boxes swapped over.
If a black box is installed, at the end of the insurance period and the owner then switches to a conventional policy I assume the box is removed. If it's not it would presumably then continue to transmit data to the previous insurer.
Following that scenario, how about buying a 2nd hand car with one of these boxes left in. I suspect it may be rather moot, but it depends on scope creep of the device...
Also, with multiple insurers offering black boxes it's probably too much to think that they'll all use the same ones or that they'll be compatible. So switching from one black box provider to another will no doubt end up in 1, if not 2, trips to the fitters to get the boxes swapped over.
Some part of me actually welcomes this, the addition of an (admittedly illegal) GPS jammer would render the system inoperable when you wished to drive in a 'spirited manner' hence much reduced vehicle insurance. Likewise with pay as you go car tax. It's the equivalent of sticking a magnet to the old gas meter to stop the needle turning. Just don't get caught with the magnet still attached!
Andy ap said:
Sorry if this has already been asked, but assuming this becomes more commonplace whats going to happen with track days. I somehow doubt they're going to be like the GTR which knows when your on a race track....
The GPS bit will sort that out as they'll know you're not on a public road. Hence no insurance cover.Pulling out of a junction at the wrong time won't be logged by any tracking box. This is purely to track times of travel and speeds. Neither of which are any more useful than enforcing better driving standards with more controlled tests and better education from genuine people and not scaremongering idiots like BRAKE. It also won't stop people claiming for whiplash thanks to ambulance chasers.
Drive better, crash less, pay less (in theory) x 62,000,000.
Drive better, crash less, pay less (in theory) x 62,000,000.
dc2rr07 said:
"Everyone has incidents where they have to brake sharply," a spokesperson for Citroen's insurance provider told us.
So that would be at least every weekend after I have washed the car (drying the discs), as said previuosly its the start of that thin wedge.
I like to practice emergency stops. I think that it's a really helpful thing to do so that in an emergency you do the right thing, especially in a car without ABS.So that would be at least every weekend after I have washed the car (drying the discs), as said previuosly its the start of that thin wedge.
Al 450 said:
Some part of me actually welcomes this, the addition of an (admittedly illegal) GPS jammer would render the system inoperable when you wished to drive in a 'spirited manner' hence much reduced vehicle insurance. Likewise with pay as you go car tax. It's the equivalent of sticking a magnet to the old gas meter to stop the needle turning. Just don't get caught with the magnet still attached!
"thing is Mr Jones at the time of the accident according to our systems your car was actually sat on your drive so I'm afraid you are not covered"Al 450 said:
Some part of me actually welcomes this, the addition of an (admittedly illegal) GPS jammer would render the system inoperable when you wished to drive in a 'spirited manner' hence much reduced vehicle insurance. Likewise with pay as you go car tax. It's the equivalent of sticking a magnet to the old gas meter to stop the needle turning. Just don't get caught with the magnet still attached!
Unfortunately these boxes are fitted with accelerometers too.Removing it and leaving it at home for six out of seven days would be the only sensible option. But I doubt even that would work.
"Dear me Sir, your odometer says you've covered 50000 miles, but our black box has only recorded 500."
Piggy back ecu's that tell the car's computer what it wants to hear have been around for ages. How long before the same exist for these boxes? Every piece of mass produced tech gets broken apart eventually. I can see a lot of these black box'd cars spending a strange amount of time on the driveway.
Thought I would comment with a little write up as im currently using one of these 'black box' policies.
I passed my driving test in August 2011 (it took me 2 goes but lets be honest, the best drivers pass on their second go..). I was due to start a college course in the September, a journey of 35 miles each way for me, so getting a car was the only option, didn't fancy a 3 hours a day on a bus!
So after trawling through various comparison sites and making various phonecalls to companies my dad suggested I try Co-op's 'Young Drivers' insurance policy which i believe is aimed at people aged 17-24 (he actually had a standard policy with them at the time). Now for some prices:
X reg Corsa 1.2 sxi: Co-op YD £1450 vs cheapest standard comprehensive policy £2500 or very close to it.
X reg Astra 1.6 club: Co-op YD somewhere between £1800/1900 vs £3200 again for a standard comprehensive policy
The corsa was the one I ended up with (the astra was my dad's old car and he was upgrading at the time so the option was suggested).
Ive always had a massive interest in cars and motorsport even doing some very low level karting when I was younger, so finally getting behind the wheel was what id always wanted. So unfortunately I do still put my foot down a bit too often, especially if I find a nice B road. Black box wise this has never been an issue, everything is taken on averages, so that 5-10 minutes of B road fun is going to be hard pushed to ruin your ratings compared to say, a journey thats 20 mins each way to the golf club (a journey I do quite a lot). Everything is calculated by averages, for example 1 emmergency stop vs 50 miles where braking is well judged for normal situations etc.
I changed the car on the policy to an astra 1.4 16v after 6 months. The corsa was terrible and just about everything went wrong with it, it was cheap so that wasn't entirely unexpected. However upon renewal of the policy (12 months after it originally started) I was handed a 50% discount due to my 1 years no claims, so straight down to £725! Further discounts can also be earned every 90 days if you can improve you driving within that time, however in reality it's not liekly that your scores will change, most people will settle at their own average.
Ive attatched a pic of my rating on the Co-op 'driving dashboard' which displays your averages and is fairly useful to keep a check on how you're doing (there is also a more detailed version of individual statistics shown in graph form on the site). I wouldnt call myself a boy racer, mainly because I drive a vauxhall astra, but lets just say Im not the slowest of people out on the road yet my ratings aren't horrendous.
I passed my driving test in August 2011 (it took me 2 goes but lets be honest, the best drivers pass on their second go..). I was due to start a college course in the September, a journey of 35 miles each way for me, so getting a car was the only option, didn't fancy a 3 hours a day on a bus!
So after trawling through various comparison sites and making various phonecalls to companies my dad suggested I try Co-op's 'Young Drivers' insurance policy which i believe is aimed at people aged 17-24 (he actually had a standard policy with them at the time). Now for some prices:
X reg Corsa 1.2 sxi: Co-op YD £1450 vs cheapest standard comprehensive policy £2500 or very close to it.
X reg Astra 1.6 club: Co-op YD somewhere between £1800/1900 vs £3200 again for a standard comprehensive policy
The corsa was the one I ended up with (the astra was my dad's old car and he was upgrading at the time so the option was suggested).
Ive always had a massive interest in cars and motorsport even doing some very low level karting when I was younger, so finally getting behind the wheel was what id always wanted. So unfortunately I do still put my foot down a bit too often, especially if I find a nice B road. Black box wise this has never been an issue, everything is taken on averages, so that 5-10 minutes of B road fun is going to be hard pushed to ruin your ratings compared to say, a journey thats 20 mins each way to the golf club (a journey I do quite a lot). Everything is calculated by averages, for example 1 emmergency stop vs 50 miles where braking is well judged for normal situations etc.
I changed the car on the policy to an astra 1.4 16v after 6 months. The corsa was terrible and just about everything went wrong with it, it was cheap so that wasn't entirely unexpected. However upon renewal of the policy (12 months after it originally started) I was handed a 50% discount due to my 1 years no claims, so straight down to £725! Further discounts can also be earned every 90 days if you can improve you driving within that time, however in reality it's not liekly that your scores will change, most people will settle at their own average.
Ive attatched a pic of my rating on the Co-op 'driving dashboard' which displays your averages and is fairly useful to keep a check on how you're doing (there is also a more detailed version of individual statistics shown in graph form on the site). I wouldnt call myself a boy racer, mainly because I drive a vauxhall astra, but lets just say Im not the slowest of people out on the road yet my ratings aren't horrendous.
Type R Tom said:
With some of the “interesting” driving I see every morning on my commute, I really think a few company cars and vans could do with having this technology fitted!
+1 for having this on all Company cars/vans...the majority of w
kers I see on the road are clearly in company vehicles.Does anyone with half a brain ever really buy suspiciously low mileage digital odometer cars that dont look like they have done low miles? No because it took cleverer people than me all of 5 mins to work out how to hack them and the same will happen with these boxes.
Even if they were hackable I'd never install one, hate to say I'd pay a premium not to have one as it would leave the insurance hawks with the idea that they have another one to fall into their dastardly scheme!
Even if they were hackable I'd never install one, hate to say I'd pay a premium not to have one as it would leave the insurance hawks with the idea that they have another one to fall into their dastardly scheme!
The Coop insurance have released an app to show you how their black box works. I've tried it and the results were, shall we say, interesting!
http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
dtiom said:
The Coop insurance have released an app to show you how their black box works. I've tried it and the results were, shall we say, interesting!
http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
"Young Driver" app on itunes.http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co.uk/servlet/Sat...
renaultgeek said:
maybe they should have a microphone to see how many people beep and swear at you while you drive! fast driving doesn't necessarily mean bad driving and vice versa.
Many a true word, spoken in gest.It does raise a very interesting consideration regarding what the scoring criteria rates driving on, and how it's weighted .... Obviously anything that prevents us driving everywhere sideways at 100mph isn't popular
, however I'd be facinated to know how the black box data could penalise other types of bad driving, like dawdling, tailgating, unreported car park bumps and scrapes, overtaking cyclist where there isn't room, last minute lane changing, pulling out infront of other vehicles causing them to have to brake etc etc etc.If these machines are no more complex than a GPS and an accelerometer, then I can't really see how the parameters being measured are comprehensive enough to judge on anything more than speed and how a cars steering, accelerating and braking.
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